Fianna Fáil Election manifesto 1997

OTK

Anyone know where to find it? Surely it has to be online somewhere?

ballooba

The one from 2002 is here:
http://www.ireland.com/focus/election_2002/parties/ffmanifesto.pdf

jmayo

The FF election promises from 2002 makes interesting reading.
Have to ask what happened to following promsies.

... An end to hospital waiting lists within two years!

...ensure that every school attains modern standards
within the next five years !

...Ensure that group water schemes meet the quality standards of the Drinking Water Directive by end 2003.
...investment in water and sewerage schemes, ensuring that sewage discharges from all our major urban centres are treated in line with EU Directives
(Not applicable to Galway it seems!!!!)

...Expand the Garda Síochána by a further 2,000.
(the famous 2000 extra Garda are almost as mythical as the Loch Ness monster at this stage)

...We will start work on the construction at Abbotstown of a world-class national stadium that meets the needs of the three main sporting organizations.

...We will roll-out broadband to make it accessible to as many rural communities as possible.

...high quality dual carriageway or motorway links between Dublin and the Border, Cork, Limerick and Galway by 2006 and Dublin to Waterford by 2007.
...In July 2000, the Government approved the development of a metro system for Dublin. Particular priority will be given to the development of an early link to Dublin Airport.

And these are only the ones I picked up on when skimming through the document.

About the only one really delivered was to guarantee that housing supply would continue to grow.

Anyone get a copy of the FG Manifesto 1982, or the FG Manifesto 1992?

gandalf

LOL Conor thats how you address this? 10 years in power and it looks like no promises have been kept. How does that make you feel as a FF supporter?

OP I may have a copy at home, I will check later on tonight.

gandalf

gandalf wrote:

LOL Conor thats how you address this?

LOL you think FF are the only party that don't keep promises? Your unquestioning faith in parties that are not Fianna Fail is almost touchingly cute.

As a FF supporter, I know they do the same as every party before or since. The manifesto is a statement of intent. Those intentions are often assessed on situations that may change completely eg. a statement that the health service would improve might be slightly affected if 400,000 people were to land into the country over the space of a few years and place a huge strain on the service.

gandalf

No but I do realise that FF have been in power reaping the rewards of work done by previous administrations that have lead to revenues available that over Governments could only have dreamth of and they still can't keep their promises.

But surely you lot are saying the 400,000 coming into the country was a good thing and aren't those 400,000 paying tax into revenues coffers which from your statement would not have been included in the Government estimates of the time?

10 YEARS CONOR, FUNDS COMING OUT THEIR ARSES, and they still cannot keep to their promises.

Raiser

Deleted User wrote:

LOL you think FF are the only party that don't keep promises? Your unquestioning faith in parties that are not Fianna Fail is almost touchingly cute.

As a FF supporter, I know they do the same as every party before or since. The manifesto is a statement of intent. Those intentions are often assessed on situations that may change completely eg. a statement that the health service would improve might be slightly affected if 400,000 people were to land into the country over the space of a few years and place a huge strain on the service.

Flogging a dead horse ? I'd say ConorFF would climb off the deceased beast and try and carry it over the last few [massive at this point] fences to the finish line ......

gandalf

gandalf wrote:

No but I do realise that FF have been in power reaping the rewards of work done by previous administrations that have lead to revenues available that over Governments could only have dreamth of and they still can't keep their promises.

That's true. I'm not denying that FF have failed to implement promises, or that they could have made a better effort. I think they got a bit too comfortable with power and a little estranged from accountability. But I think its true for all parties, and I certainly don't accept that breach of promises is something new or unusual.

As for the 400,000 coming in, I am delighted to see them, I welcome them, I would favour an open door policy myself, but I don't doubt but that it puts a strain on services that didn't exist a few years back.

Raiser wrote:

Flogging a dead horse ? I'd say ConorFF would climb off the deceased beast and try and carry it over the last few [massive at this point] fences to the finish line ......

Please try and talk about the post and not the poster. The issues are about manifestos and of course political promises made therein. You don't know me, so the 'I'd say...' is complete nonsense.

gandalf

Raiser do not personalise your arguement on here again or you will be banned.

Conor next time use the report this post icon please :rolleyes:

Múinteoir

Well I don't think anyone in FF had heard of the internet in 1997.

M&#250

M&#250 wrote: »

Well I don't think anyone in FF had heard of the internet in 1997.

Oh sure. Fianna Failers are luddites and smart people join other parties.

I love political snobbery. Its funnier and more misplaced than music snobbery.

Sully

Deleted User wrote:

Anyone get a copy of the FG Manifesto 1982, or the FG Manifesto 1992?

How many years ago was that? Did they have two terms in office and STILL not keep their promises? At all? Most of it is just "talk" to get elected, but once elected not even think about what they said previously.

Sorry, but someone put a point on the table and thats the worst come-back for the point iv came across yet. Get the Maniofesto and compare it. Without the facts, there isnt much point in implying FG done the same.

stepbar

Deleted User wrote:

Anyone get a copy of the FG Manifesto 1982

Ah conor, you keep forgetting to refer to 77-82. A lot of FF'ers conveniently forget about those years.

AdMMM

Deleted User wrote:

Oh sure. Fianna Failers are luddites and smart people join other parties.

I love political snobbery. Its funnier and more misplaced than music snobbery.

Actually back in 1997, very few people envisaged the future role that the internet would have on society.

InFront

A Metro by 2007?
End to hospital waiting lists by 2004?
Were Martin Cullen's video games mentioned on it?

Time Magazine

gandalf wrote:

10 YEARS CONOR, FUNDS COMING OUT THEIR ARSES, and they still cannot keep to their promises.

Don't forget the legislation coming out of their hole, such as the fantastic Disability Act :rolleyes:

On that note, RTÉ report that "The Health Service Executive has told schools in Naas, Co Kildare, that it is closing its waiting list for child and adolescent psychiatric services. It says this is because the list is now running at a two-year wait."

The Six One News just clarified that this is due to a severe, long-running lack of funding.

That's good of you, Fianna Fáil.

stepbar

jmayo wrote:

...ensure that every school attains modern standards
within the next five years !

Love this promise. The national school I went to has been in "temporary" accommadation for the past 30 years!! The Gov are only getting around to providing funding for it now. The secondary school I went to have been waiting the best part of 10 years for a new school. And only because of a campaign from parents, no progress would have been made in the next 10. Conviently enough (before the election and all) the minister for education wrote to the board of management stating that funding was being available. Dont talk to me about FF, they sicken me TBH.

Múinteoir

Deleted User wrote:

Oh sure. Fianna Failers are luddites and smart people join other parties.

I love political snobbery. Its funnier and more misplaced than music snobbery.

Would you ever pull that steel rod out of your ass!

patzer117

hold on a second now, Fine Gael have already stated that they won't be able to achieve what's in their Manifesto in the 5 years if they get elected. They also state they'll run a deficit if necessary and that the only things they gaurantee are the ones they and Labour agree on? If we're talking about Manifesto's surely theirs this time has to be the biggest joke - dead in the water before they even get to power?

stepbar

patzer117 wrote:

hold on a second now, Fine Gael have already stated that they won't be able to achieve what's in their Manifesto in the 5 years if they get elected. They also state they'll run a deficit if necessary and that the only things they gaurantee are the ones they and Labour agree on? If we're talking about Manifesto's surely theirs this time has to be the biggest joke - dead in the water before they even get to power?

Have you got evidence for all that?

patzer117

stepbar wrote:

Have you got evidence for all that?

Of course!
today's Irish Times by Marc Coleman

Spectre of budgetary deficits in FG figures

Marc Coleman

Economic Analysis: The year 2002 excepted, budget surpluses have been run in every year since 1997. Even the 2002 deficit was a modest affair, some €547 million or just 0.5 per cent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP).

But if Enda Kenny's remarks at yesterday's Fine Gael manifesto launch are anything to go by, budget deficits might be about to make a comeback. In its plan Fine Gael assumes nominal economic growth (growth in the volume of output plus growth in prices) and tax revenue growth will average, respectively, 7 and 7.7 per cent per annum between 2008 and 2012.

This gives enough room for €4.9 billion on election spending commitments, as well as a €3.4 billion package of tax cuts.

It was put to Enda Kenny and Richard Bruton yesterday that the ESRI and Central Bank were forecasting nominal growth to be about a percentage point lower than they expect in 2008 and that, if this trend continued, a €5billion hole could emerge in their election finances. Which promises would they cut if this happened? The Irish Times asked.

In responding, Mr Kenny began by saying that, under existing assumptions, Fine Gael expects to avoid running deficits (this is only just true; in 2012 Fine Gael expect an exactly balanced budget). He then said Fine Gael would manage the budget "within the parameters of the Stability and Growth Pact". The pact allows governments to run deficits of up to 3 per cent of GDP. When decoded, Kenny's remarks mean that, if budgetary solids hit the fan, Fine Gael will contemplate borrowing rather than breaking its promises.

just read all today's papers, it's all over them

InFront

patzer, you do realise that Fianna Fail are forecasting the same economic growth rate as Fine Gael? It is Labour, in fairness to them, who are allowing a certain amount of insurance by forecasting the lowest growth rate.

Marc Coleman's article is a bit ridiculous to be honest, he's basically saying that if the economy goes back to what it was like in the 90s, there will be problems ahead. Well there will be problems ahead for everybody in that hypothetical situation, I don't see how you can limit it to FG.

And by the way, in one post you calim FG wont deliver their promises, in another you claim they will deliver their promises at all costs. Make up your mind, which is it?

patzer117

ok. economics. the deficit is a combination of income and expenditure. The income may be the same, depending on the various tax plans, but Fianna Fail aren't planning the same reckless spending as Fine Gael... which Fine Gael openly admits could drag them into the deficit zone


the article is fine. he says that Fine Gael are planning to have a perfectly balanced budget in 2012 so if ANYTHING goes wrong well then they'll run a deficit, it's nothing to do with the growth rates in the 90s, that's just trying to confuddle the issue. basically if the economy slows even by the slightest bit then we'll run a deficit with a Fine Gael government. They've said they'd rather run a deficit than not deliver on some of the promises they and labour have agreed on. The same can't be said for Fianna Fail, they haven't said they are ok with running a deficit?

I don't recall saying that Fine Gael's costing were wrong - can you point out where I said that please? What i'm saying is they've said they won't be able to achieve everything they've set out in their manifesto, which they admit, and also that they will run a deficit on their budget predictions if the economy slows. Point out the logic that fails in that

InFront

Did you even read the article? It points out that this is a problem for Fianna Fail and the PDs... and every other party.

patzer117 wrote:

I don't recall saying that Fine Gael's costing were wrong - can you point out where I said that please?

Who said you did?

they won't be able to achieve everything they've set out in their manifesto, which they admit

You're talking rubbish. Elsewhere you said they'd run a defecit to honour their commitments:

They also state they'll run a deficit if necessary

stepbar

patzer117 wrote:

ok. economics. the deficit is a combination of income and expenditure. The income may be the same, depending on the various tax plans, but Fianna Fail aren't planning the same reckless spending as Fine Gael... which Fine Gael openly admits could drag them into the deficit zone


the article is fine. he says that Fine Gael are planning to have a perfectly balanced budget in 2012 so if ANYTHING goes wrong well then they'll run a deficit, it's nothing to do with the growth rates in the 90s, that's just trying to confuddle the issue. basically if the economy slows even by the slightest bit then we'll run a deficit with a Fine Gael government. They've said they'd rather run a deficit than not deliver on some of the promises they and labour have agreed on. The same can't be said for Fianna Fail, they haven't said they are ok with running a deficit?

I don't recall saying that Fine Gael's costing were wrong - can you point out where I said that please? What i'm saying is they've said they won't be able to achieve everything they've set out in their manifesto, which they admit, and also that they will run a deficit on their budget predictions if the economy slows. Point out the logic that fails in that

So, where's the real evidence?

patzer117

ok, so again i'm going to have to explain the ins and outs of Fine Gael and Labours' proposals to the opposition's supporters.

Fine Gael and Labour have agreed on an expensive budgetary deal which has yet to be fully finalised. Fine Gael then issued a manifesto. The manifesto contains things which Labour do not agree with. Fine Gael admits this. Therefore Fine Gael won't be delivering everything they've promised in the manifesto.

However, what Fine Gael and Labour do agree on in their budget (which has yet to be fully finalised), is details on the budget's surplus and deficit. They plan to run a tight ship, and run a surplus for the first for years and break even in the last. What they have said is they would run a deficit rather than break the promises they have agreed together (i think there are 15 core promises in the joint publication with Kenny's "pledge to the people") which are outlined in the joint publication. So if there are problems with cost over-runs or a slow down in the economy which lowers the tax take, well then they plan to run a deficit

That's how they will not deliver everything they have promised and how they will quite probably run a deficit at the same time

stepbar

patzer117 wrote:

ok, so again i'm going to have to explain the ins and outs of Fine Gael and Labours' proposals to the opposition's supporters.

Fine Gael and Labour have agreed on an expensive budgetary deal which has yet to be fully finalised. Fine Gael then issued a manifesto. The manifesto contains things which Labour do not agree with. Fine Gael admits this. Therefore Fine Gael won't be delivering everything they've promised in the manifesto.

However, what Fine Gael and Labour do agree on in their budget (which has yet to be fully finalised), is details on the budget's surplus and deficit. They plan to run a tight ship, and run a surplus for the first for years and break even in the last. What they have said is they would run a deficit rather than break the promises they have agreed together (i think there are 15 core promises in the joint publication with Kenny's "pledge to the people") which are outlined in the joint publication. So if there are problems with cost over-runs or a slow down in the economy which lowers the tax take, well then they plan to run a deficit

That's how they will not deliver everything they have promised and how they will quite probably run a deficit at the same time

Yes, if your going to make wild statements then yes, back them up.

Shur FF dont even have a party to go into government with....

wow sierra

If ye are complaining about the roads that werent completed what about the ones that were??
The M1, the various bypasses on the N11, the Limerick bypass on the road to Kerry, the wonderful M4 which is progressing ahead of Schedule - the one which apparently the Greens are going to abandon??

I don't know what world some of ye inhabit but let me mention one of the issues which allegedly concerns people - quality of life. My quality of life has been improved no end by the reduction in the time it takes to get to the west, the reduction in time it takes to get from north dublin to Drogheda/Dundalk etc etc etc. I'm sure the quallity of life of people in places like Enfield and Kinnegad is improved no end as well.

Not everyone travels on the M50 - lots of us have had excellent improvements on the roads we do use.

leninbenjamin

wow sierra wrote:

If ye are complaining about the roads that werent completed what about the ones that were??
The M1, the various bypasses on the N11, the Limerick bypass on the road to Kerry, the wonderful M4 which is progressing ahead of Schedule - the one which apparently the Greens are going to abandon??

I don't know what world some of ye inhabit but let me mention one of the issues which allegedly concerns people - quality of life. My quality of life has been improved no end by the reduction in the time it takes to get to the west, the reduction in time it takes to get from north dublin to Drogheda/Dundalk etc etc etc. I'm sure the quallity of life of people in places like Enfield and Kinnegad is improved no end as well.

Not everyone travels on the M50 - lots of us have had excellent improvements on the roads we do use.

but that initial reduction in the quality of life was created in part by the government due to improper development planning and the absolute failure to tackle urban sprawl etc.

also, it might be good driving now but you know the old stylized fact that in time more roads will result in more traffic. it will be interesting to see whether those gains will remain, i see more and more cars being added to the roads all the time. more roads will never replace proper urban planning and good public transport imo.

InFront

If you want to turn a FF thread into one where you only talk about the Fine Gael, that's great imo, I just have one point first

patzer117 wrote:

The manifesto contains things which Labour do not agree with. Fine Gael admits this. Therefore Fine Gael won't be delivering everything they've promised in the manifesto.

Every party in the Dail has manifestos that disagree with that of Fianna Fail. There is no doubt but that Fianna Fail will not be in a position to form a government by itself. Applying the above logic, Fianna Fail will not be delivering on their promises, but then, everybody already knows that.

Now back to Fine Gael. Fine Gael have given clear commitments within the stability pact, backed up by putting Enda Kenny's head on the line if they, for some reason, did not deliver. You should not take your knowledge of FG policy for the article you quote, under the pact, they actually provide for 1% of GDP overbudget, not 3%. In the event of an economic downturn. FF have not even given a figure for how far over budget they will go.