Stories apparently on the way in Tomorrows Papers, Is Bertie touching up his CV?

gandalf

Voipjunkie wrote:

So your the guy blocking the news stand every sunday morning

Ah you're that muppet that blocks my light and rubs himself against me all the time..........

Stephen

/crosses fingers

If true this will make my bank holiday weekend

InFront

no I don't work for the MoS, but I don't like the consensus-seeking tone of the post.

Why not? It's a pity that more people don't ask questions like that to try weigh up the credibility of certain media, not just read whatever is doing the mill and accept it as truth.

A bit more on topic: can anyone remember how FF itself fared in the opinion poll after Bertigate I? I know his personal popularity went up two points, but what happened to FF?
I'm not convinced that sympathy for the Taoiseach would equate to real support for a local FF TD on election day...

ballooba

Yes, but the FF/PD government has not been an option for a long time. The numbers do not add up.

InFront

FG/ Lab/ Greens are apparently at 6/4. What's 6/4, is that the same as 1.5/1? That's very impressive for them if it is.

gandalf

InFront I think they went up as well. It begs the question what would Bertie have to do to get the rank and file of FF up in arms against him. Judging from the responses here and on Politics.ie if one of the papers ran a story tomorrow saying "Bertie in Paedo ring shame" FF supporters would come back with something like "Sure its nice he likes children".

Bateman

6/4 is indeed 2.5 (pre-commission on betfair).

IF, I'd just like people to read any given piece before commenting on it; I don't think that's too much to ask. Whether one reads it or buys it isn't the issue, but asking "should I bother?" kind of defeats the purpose of having a forum such as this.

brianthebard

Bateman wrote:

OK it's o/t, and no I don't work for the MoS, but I don't like the consensus-seeking tone of the post.

I'm not looking for consensus, just want to know what DaveMcG said. When I buy a paper I want something quality, not a rag. Also, where this story comes out will make a difference to how it progresses, if its a rag trying to drag Ahern's name through the gutter, then people may feel he's being hard done by. If it were a six one interview where he was grilled hard but fairly and people felt he had done something wrong it might impact his popularity. Its not just the message that's important here, its how that message is put across.

InFront

if one of the papers ran a story tomorrow saying "Bertie in Paedo ring shame" FF supporters would come back with something like "Sure its nice he likes children".

That's funny because its true! (the popularity, not the paedophilia. dont want to go boosting his ratings...)

gandalf

Bateman has a point there lads doesn't he.

I will do my freeware read of the Mail on Sunday at my local newsagent tomorrow (providing they have any left I don't plan to get up early tomorrow, err today!).

Dave!

Just lookin at the RedC tracking polls here.....

http://www.redcresearch.ie/results.html

Wikipedia says the Bertiegate I story leaked in September, so the results for "If there was a general election tomorrow, who would you vote for?" are:

July 06: FF 35%
Sept 06: FF 33%
Oct 06: FF 39%

How quickly we forget! lol

brianthebard

DaveMcG wrote:

Just lookin at the RedC tracking polls here.....

http://www.redcresearch.ie/results.html

Wikipedia says the Bertiegate I story leaked in September, so the results for "If there was a general election tomorrow, who would you vote for?" are:

July 06: FF 35%
Sept 06: FF 33%
Oct 06: FF 39%

How quickly we forget! lol

What if its all a FF conspiracy and they leaked the stories themselves to gain support!?!?!?:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Dave!

Hot damn, we didn't think of that!

Those FF spin doctors are to be worshipped....... Geniuses.

brianthebard

Its so dastardly it just might be true....

Voipjunkie

gandalf wrote:

Ah you're that muppet that blocks my light and rubs himself against me all the time..........

If you don't like it why were you smiling

Stephen

I'll be keeping an ear on the 01.00 news on the radio

Bateman

Forget about the "FF leaking the stories because they want to win the election", what about the real conspiracy? FF want to lose the election, they don't fancy presiding over the recession.

Dave!

Yahh! To the Conspiracy forum with ye!

Hugh_C

Bateman wrote:

Forget about the "FF leaking the stories because they want to win the election", what about the real conspiracy? FF want to lose the election, they don't fancy presiding over the recession.

Every dog in the street knows that.

Surprised I haven't read it in here before - easier to snipe from the opposition benches and wait for a few years till the upswing comes round.

gilroyb

Brian, regarding the paper and the author, I assume it's written by Frank Connolly. The mail used to be the Ireland on Sunday. Not the best of reputations, but if they can back up the story then the fact the rest of the paper may be a rag doesn't change the story.

As for the author, he lost his last job thanks to the intervention of McDowell who used his Dail privilege to release information. He 'might' have something of an agenda against this government.

Without having seen the article, if it ends up falling flat on its face tomorrow, the the Mail and the Rainbow will both suffer in terms of reputation.

ballooba

gilroyb wrote:

Without having seen the article, if it ends up falling flat on its face tomorrow, the the Mail and the Rainbow will both suffer in terms of reputation.

The Daily Mail has no reputation to lose. They do have everything to gain though. The rainbow however has nothing to do with this story.

Marcais

The Mail on Sunday accuses Bertie Ahern of lying to the country last Thursday when he said the £30k was intended for Ceila Larkin.

The paper reveals detail of transcripts they have from the Mahon tribunal which reveal that the money was intended for him, and not his then partner as he told the press on Thursday.

He has do a Nixon and if people have any moral responsibility they will make sure that FF are hurting on May 24th. This type of backhanders leading to planning corruption is evident throughout Fianna Fail and indeed Fine Gael proven in the courts, Lowry etc.

Time for Ireland to wake up.

copacetic

Jodys piece from the Independent, basically he provided the 'info' the PDs
are going to pull out of government over:

'I believed that this unusual request from the Tanaiste, Justice Minister and former Attorney-General was made in the national interest'


SHORTLY after midnight on Thursday the Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell sent me a text message. "Ring me Friday am," he wrote. I did not read the message until Friday morning. At around 7.40am I called him, apologised for the early hour, and asked what he wanted.

"I want to meet you today," he said. "What about?" I asked. "Bertie," he replied.

Three hours later I met Mr McDowell's special adviser, Cormac Lucey - not in the car park of the Department of Justice on St Stephen's Green, as he had suggested, but in my car on Merrion Square, a 10-minute walk from Leinster House.

I provided detailed information to Mr Lucey in relation to the Bertiegate affair, the reason for which course of action I will fully explain.

During our half-hour meeting, Mr Lucey took it all in. He then left, presumably to return to the Department of Justice.

My belief was this: that this unusual request from the Tanaiste, Minister for Justice, former Attorney-General and PD leader was made in the national interest and that I should take it seriously.

I decided that I would tell him what I believed to be fact, but which I am legally prevented from publishing.

As a realist, I had hoped that the Minister for Justice, a responsible member of the Government, would respect the trust I had placed in him.

Of course, I would be a liar if I pretended that I would not some Saturday get an editorial favour in return.

Based on the information which I provided, the PDs would decide, one way or another, its party's position in Government and, I hoped, would exclusively reveal that decision to the Sunday Independent.

Judging by their reaction yesterday, the information I provided, or rather the Bertiegate chain of events, the chronological sequence and the entire drama of what had occurred was enough to startle the PDs.

Yesterday morning, Michael McDowell told me he was "shocked" by the information. Mr Lucey, whom I met again yesterday in a city centre hotel, said it was "like something out of the Sopranos."

I do not believe the new information I provided was all that disturbing.

There is no doubt it is serious. Interpreted in a certain way, it is damaging to Fianna Fail, and to Bertie Ahern. Looked at another way, it is merely more of the same, the story of the Taoiseach's personal finances, the main elements of which have been in the public domain for over a week.

But Michael McDowell does not seem to be buying into that view. From my subsequent conversations with him, there is no doubt he is deeply uncomfortable to be in government with Fianna Fail. I believe he is about to jump, this weekend, or early next week.

I believe he will do so because he will claim he was somehow misled by Bertie Ahern last September in relation to the will of businessman, Michael Wall, which stipulated that the Taoiseach would inherit Mr Wall's house in Drumcondra.

In effect, there is now just one potential Government on offer to the electorate, Fine Gael/Labour and the Greens.

But don't write off Bertie Ahern just yet. Already, I suspect, he, or his party, is looking at other options post polling day.

Anything could yet happen in this most exciting of election campaigns.

I want to deal here with why I am making public these events.

My meeting with Mr Lucey was supposed to be private. But yesterday morning, the Irish Times revealed how the PDs had secured extra details on the Taoiseach's finances. I provided that information in confidence. Yesterday, another journalist contacted me to say he had been told by the PDs that I, specifically, had provided the party with "dynamite" information.

Yesterday, inevitably, Charlie Bird, the RTE journalist, broke the story on RTE radio. The cat, therefore, is out of the bag.

For several months I have been investigating the Bertiegate affair. During the course of my work, I have assembled information, pieced together bit by bit, which is in effect the full narrative of this complex story, or the full narrative so far.

Think back for a moment. You may remember the articles I wrote; black briefcases stuffed with cash; Celia and the Garda driver; how they were coming for Bertie again, as I wrote. Think, also, of my articles on sinister leaks, conspiracy theories and interweaving plots.

In recent weeks, the information I had put together began to seep out.

On Friday morning, when I spoke to the Minister for Justice, he was aware that I had the entire story.

Much of it, certainly the more meaty parts, had already, by that stage been put into the public domain, mainly by the Mail on Sunday and the Irish Times , two newspapers with their own agenda, as every newspaper has.

What I told the PDs was more of the same, information already out there. There seemed to me to be no silver bullet, as such, no revelation not already in circulation that they were not already aware of.

But it is the interpretation of these facts which seems to have disturbed the PDs so much.

Certainly the entire interconnected story had not been put together chronologically. The nuances of who did what, when and why was lost on Mr McDowell, until the information I supplied filled in the gaps.

Some of the further information I provided turned up on the front page of the Irish Times yesterday, relating to the Taoiseach's alleged involvement in foreign exchange transactions.

But I also relayed to him certain matters relating to missing files; of issues relating to insurance payments and of the specific roles played by certain people in the political, legal and business professions, many of these people known to the Tanaiste.

I told him everything I knew - or most of it - to allow him to make the decision he must now make.

As I write this at 6pm on Saturday, it seems the PDs are preparing to pull out of Government, to abandon Fianna Fail, or rather, to cut loose Bertie Ahern, and fight the election alone.

Mr McDowell is between a rock and a hard place. He is now attempting to choreograph the PDs' exit and, in doing so, will do his utmost to distance his party from Fianna Fail.

It will be a damage limitation exercise. The best he can now hope for is that the electorate will not punish him too severely, whichever decision he arrives at, and they could punish him either way.

But that is a decision for Mr McDowell and his colleagues to make.

Jody Corcoran

Santa Claus

DaveMcG wrote:

Just lookin at the RedC tracking polls here.....

http://www.redcresearch.ie/results.html

Wikipedia says the Bertiegate I story leaked in September, so the results for "If there was a general election tomorrow, who would you vote for?" are:

July 06: FF 35%
Sept 06: FF 33%
Oct 06: FF 39%

How quickly we forget! lol

The reason for the upsurge in support after bertiegate 1 is simple, he made out that he got the money from friends to look after his seperation payment to his wife and provide for the education of his daughters....the mammies of ireland all let out a collective "aw, the poor fella...being hauled over the coals for trying to do right by his family" and so people rallied behind him with a sympathy vote of sorts!

These revelations will get an entirely different reaction and DEFINITELY won't increase his support.

The only question now is do FF oust Bertie and put Biffo in place for the election after spending all that money on those "bertie's team" posters...I'd imagine a few candidates are quietly asking supporters to take some of those down in their areas for fear of getting the "guilty by association" tag!