Fianna Fail Voters

Boston

InFront wrote:

I find it strange that a FF supporter would even want to bring it up given the current political climate.

I'm more of a status Quo supporter then FF.

InFront

That's fair enough, but I don't agree that a vote for Fianna Fail is a vote for status quo.

As Bottle of Smoke said, Bertie is planning on quitting if he gets elected. Who will be Taoiseach then? Dick Roche? Willie O Dea? Micheal Martin? Imagine those guys making the big decisions.

Sully

Boston wrote:

Yea, put look at the peace process now. great job, Bertie.

Thats YEARS of hard work, not just by FF. Using that as an election ploy is a disgrace. No WAY did FF or Bertie Ahern result in peace in the North. They sure as hell might have helped but they were NOT alone and they are NOT the result of peace.

marie_85

Boston wrote:

I think the Greens would rip the country apart and send us back into the stone age if they ever got into power

That's a bit of a strong statement to make. How so? And bear in mind that after this election, there won't be a sole Green government or even Green led government. They'll only be part of a larger coalition if they get in.

nesf

marie_85 wrote:

That's a bit of a strong statement to make. How so? And bear in mind that after this election, there won't be a sole Green government or even Green led government. They'll only be part of a larger coalition if they get in.

I don't know, the Greens always struck me as a good party to have in opposition. It's good to have a party trying to keep those in power honest on environmental terms but I'm not sure if their brand of green policy could actually work in this country if they ever gained a lot of power.

Sully

Boston wrote:

I told you why I'm voting FF.

Sorry, I cant seem to find that post - can ya help me out and gimme the link? (Bogged down with other work, so excuse my lazyness!)

Again with the coming at me like I'm trying to convince you to vote FF.

No.. you pointed out that you wouldnt vote for FG/Labour because of "horror stories" you were "told" (ie tales passed down). That was many years ago. Im reffering to the last two times in government, when they didnt stick to their promises and failed to do what they should have. Thats all. Im not reffering to many years ago. You made a comment that I shouldnt not vote because of that, but it contradicts what you said earlier - as you wont vote for another government because of their past.

In fairness, to me that indicates your just a FF die hard with no genunie interest and fail to see the main problems with your government. Just from what im gathering here..

wow sierra

Micheal Martin? Imagine those guys making the big decisions

Was really impressed with Michael Martins ability to make the big decision and stick to his guns in relation to the smoking ban - I will be eternally grateful to him.

Sorry I know thats sort of off topic:)

DJDC

DJDC wrote:

I am just wondering what reasons people have for voting FF in the upcoming election.

The economy and the North.

DJDC wrote:

Are people generally happy with the way they have organised housing and urban development and the way they have treated the Irish environment over the last 10 years?

Live in a rural constituency, so traffic in Dublin not an issue. Think the change in environment has been pretty remarkable though, when you see farmers queueing up at the local waste transfer station with bags of bottles, paper, plastics etc. and think how things were 10 years back, or still are in the UK.

DJDC wrote:

Is it family tradition,Berties personality etc that sways your vote.Do you feel the Celtic Tiger is a direct result of FF policies?

It's the economy and the North. More FG votes in my family. And most certainly not Bertie's personality. As for the Celtic Tiger, well they did preside over it, though think they 'managed' it rather than 'owned' it. certainly if there was a recession, everyone would be quick to blame them, so I guess they deserve credit when things are the exact opposite.

nesf

InFront wrote:

That's fair enough, but I don't agree that a vote for Fianna Fail is a vote for status quo.

But that seems to be the way the opposition are fighting this one. They're pointing out X broken promises and Y ****-ups and saying we'll do better. For people who don't have a strong party ideology influencing their vote (which I believe is the majority of people in this country) it will come down simply to whether or not they think a change will be a good or bad thing for the country and themselves.

Personally I'd fall in with Boston and think that a major change (i.e. FF being out of power versus the coalition as is being out of power) isn't necessary. I think it was summed up very well when it was said that oppositions don't win elections the incumbent Government loses them. I don't think the present Government has ****ed up enough for them to lose my vote and you I imagine disagree, however the country seems to be fairly evenly divided on this and this is what is going to make this election so interesting to watch.

marie_85

nesf wrote:

I don't know, the Greens always struck me as a good party to have in opposition. It's good to have a party trying to keep those in power honest on environmental terms but I'm not sure if their brand of green policy could actually work in this country if they ever gained a lot of power.

They're not suggesting anything too radical from what I can tell. The current situation is ridiculous. Ireland is in breach of a number of EU directives, which we're going to be fined over. Instead of concentrating on reducing carbon emisions, the current government prefers to waste taxpayer's money by buying carbon credits which again is ridiculous. When you think about the fact that we live on an island, it's clear that renewable energy sources are easier for Ireland to harvest than most other European countries and we should take advantage of this.

And when you look at the Greens other policies, you'll see the environment only makes up a small part of their manifesto. With regards to planning, education, transport, health, the policies are sound. And the Irish Times recently reviewed the economic and taxation policy, calling it the most mature and reasonable out of any of the parties.

Sully

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Well he can't, he announced he'll be stepping down this term!

I missed that - can you point me to that article? I could of sworn he said the opposite a while back.

Also it's very easy for Enda Kenny to make his contract promise because he knows he won't be leader of Fine Gael for the next GE.

If your predicting this based on past events, well that would really depend on how well they do if they get elected this time around.

I'm not suggesting it's not a disaster but results have been achieved.
http://www.progressivedemocrats.ie/our_policies/energy/health_reform/

Excuse me if I said that they have done nothing - FF/PDs in government have done work - but I just dont feel its enough, or focusing on the major issues.

As for what you said about VHI & competition she recently reduced risk equalisation payments by 20%
article

Still disagree with it though. Its unfair.

Also it was this govenment which brought in the smoking ban. Which I personally belive has prompted the UK to follow suit. Fianna Fail are the only party that would take that risk given our pub culture. This is a measure that means fewer people will need hospital beds in future.

Ah the smoking ban. Probably something I love FF for . But, its relativley minor in a long list of stuff. As I said, they have done work - just not enough. They didnt keep to the promisses. Areas still need attending to that have been overlooked.

You can't expect perfection overnight. Everyone I know from Monaghan is incredibly pleased with the road/motorway(i don't know the name I don't drive) to Dublin. It's a much shorter trip on the bus than it used to be going to Belfast. Most road deaths are down to speed, & cameras are being put in. There's not much else can be done to slow idiots down.

I already made my comments about this somewhere else, ill track the post down and link to it for ya.

When you see him on tv he just comes across as a nobody. When I compared him to George Bush I wasn't suggesting he'd start dropping bombs on some middle eastern nations. However his image is similar to Bush's - "I'll make the criminals(evil-doers) pay" Our jails are over-crowded as it is. He's just trying to appeal to the deserves punishment instinct in the average citizen. Like republicans in America do. Also he's anti-abortion & wants to modify our neutrality.

I think that he would have to look at the whole area surrounding it, and not just one. Im sure hes aware of over-crowding and wont send more people there without addressing that issue.

I can understand why people want a change & I can see there is merit to wanting a change simply for the sake of change. I just wish there was someone other than Fine Gael!

FG & Labour is what im talking about. I think thats a good mix.

InFront

Deleted User wrote:

The economy and the North.

The economy I can understand, but the North? The North is basically dealt with, do you mean you're voting for them as a "thank you"?

But that seems to be the way the opposition are fighting this one. They're pointing out X broken promises and Y ****-ups and saying we'll do better.

Well they're promising to change specific problems, but not the things that are running smoothly. That's why I think voting for FF is a big gamble; for one thing it's unclear who they would form a coalition with, for another thing it's unclear who the Taoiseach would be when Ahern quits (or in the event that he could be fired).
I take wow sierra's point about the smoking ban, but I certainly wouldn't like Martin sitting at the Taoiseach's desk after his disastrous tenures in health and education, the former being the one he had to be politically airlifted out from.

csk

InFront wrote:

That's fair enough, but I don't agree that a vote for Fianna Fail is a vote for status quo.

As Bottle of Smoke said, Bertie is planning on quitting if he gets elected. Who will be Taoiseach then? Dick Roche? Willie O Dea? Micheal Martin? Imagine those guys making the big decisions.

Brian Cowen or Mary Hanafin are way ahead of those clowns in the race for next leader of FF and potential Taoiseach

InFront

We might presume that, nobody really knows though.

Sully

Also, isnt FF considering moving in with Sinn Fein?

Scary thought.

InFront

Hmmm, Martin Cullen as Taoiseach, Mary Lou second in command!

csk

InFront wrote:

We might presume that, nobody really knows though.

Yes and nobody really knows whether or not tomorrow there will be a nuclear holocaust.

Also, isnt FF considering moving in with Sinn Fein?

Bertie has ruled it out, no? but I suppose his word is tainted now.

McSandwich

Boston wrote:

Do you give precedence to issues large affecting others over those directly affecting yourself? I'm not that humanitarian.

Yes I do, I'd consider myself to be a right selfish bastard if I didn't.

Look at the bigger picture, the issues affecting others may not be your concern today, but who knows what might happen tomorrow. Ask anyone who has queued in an A&E what they think..

Chances are that your water supply is just as vulnerable as it is in Galway, Ennis, Mayo, or any other area with a sh!tty water supply.

Our dependence on imported energy (e.g. oil and gas) will bite our collective arses (and **** up our economy) in the not too distant future if nothing serious is done to ensure we have alternatives.

We are supposedly the second biggest exporter of computer software - true if you include repackaging and CD duplication - which accounts for about 95% of those exports..

A friend of mine recently gave up his job to become a plumber. What's wrong with that you might ask? Well he's an experienced electronic engineer who can't find work which matches his qualification (over qualified apparently). i.e. lots of maintenance work, but very little R+D outside Intel.. It's the same for some Ph.D. physicists that I know. So much for our high tech knowledge based economy.

I could go on, but I won't, it depresses me.

InFront

csk wrote:

Yes and nobody really knows whether or not tomorrow there will be a nuclear holocaust.

In fairness, if Fianna Fail were to win this election and go on for another five years, there would be a new Taoiseach, it wouldn't be Bertie, and like it or not, nobody really knows who it would be.

At least with the coalition you know who you're electing.

nesf

marie_85 wrote:

They're not suggesting anything too radical from what I can tell. The current situation is ridiculous. Ireland is in breach of a number of EU directives, which we're going to be fined over. Instead of concentrating on reducing carbon emisions, the current government prefers to waste taxpayer's money by buying carbon credits which again is ridiculous. When you think about the fact that we live on an island, it's clear that renewable energy sources are easier for Ireland to harvest than most other European countries and we should take advantage of this.

And when you look at the Greens other policies, you'll see the environment only makes up a small part of their manifesto. With regards to planning, education, transport, health, the policies are sound. And the Irish Times recently reviewed the economic and taxation policy, calling it the most mature and reasonable out of any of the parties.

I don't agree with their ideology, similar to how I don't agree with Sinn Fein's ideology. That doesn't mean I believe that either won't propose good policies occasionally. I'm not saying that every idea and policy they propose is pointless.

csk

InFront wrote:

In fairness, if Fianna Fail were to win this election and go on for another five years, there would be a new Taoiseach, it wouldn't be Bertie, and like it or not, nobody really knows who it would be.

At least with the coalition you know who you're electing.

We don't know now who will be next Taoiseach. I mean Enda the charisma black hole is not much of an enticing prospect either.

What we do know though is that Cowen is most probably next in line certainly ahead of O'Dea and Dick Roche.

Dalfiatach

nesf wrote:

I don't agree with their ideology

What, you don't agree with a clean environment, renewable energy, a proper planning system, sustainable economic development, public transport and ethics in public office?

Dalfiatach

csk wrote:

We don't know now who will be next Taoiseach. I mean Enda the charisma black hole is not much of an enticing prospect either.

What we do know though is that Cowen is most probably next in line certainly ahead of O'Dea and Dick Roche.

If that asshole Roche becomes Taoiseach, I'm taking to the wilds of Connemara and setting up a guerilla army to overthrow him by any means necessary :mad:

InFront

csk wrote:

We don't know now who will be next Taoiseach.

Well it's looking more and more likely as the days go by, that actually we do.

However if something were to go wrong, and Fianna Fail were put back in office, it is complete guesswork as to who Ahern's successor will be when he decides to quit. If Fine Gael win, it will be Enda Kenny.

If Fianna Fail win, it will be Bertie for a while, and then we just do not know. FF supporters might try to resolve any unease about voting for a question-mark by saying 'it will be Cowen', but actually, you just do not know.

Mick86

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

On a side note anyone see Eoghan Harris's article in the Independant today? Pretty good argument for voting for Labour/FF

Yes, read it. I thought it was conspiracy-theorist nonsense. Coalition with FF is SF's only chance of getting in to government this election. Stands to reason then that undermining FF is counter-productive for the Shinners. On top of that traditional FF voters won't desert the party under any circumstances while few floating voters are likely to swing to the Shinners in my opinion.

csk

InFront wrote:

Well it's looking more and more likely as the days go by, that actually we do.

However if something were to go wrong, and Fianna Fail were put back in office, it is complete guesswork as to who Ahern's successor will be when he decides to quit. If Fine Gael win, it will be Enda Kenny.

If Fianna Fail win, it will be Bertie for a while, and then we just do not know. FF supporters might try to resolve any unease about voting for a question-mark by saying 'it will be Cowen', but actually, you just do not know.

Which brings us in a nice circular journey right back to the start. We don't know whether or not there will be a nuclear holocaust tomorrow, however it is reasonably to think we won't.

In the same vein we don't know who will be next leader of FF, it is reasonable to believe that it will be Cowen.

The last poll I saw was showing FF/Lab as most likely outcome.

nesf

Dalfiatach wrote:

What, you don't agree with a clean environment, renewable energy, a proper planning system, sustainable economic development, public transport and ethics in public office?

You're misinterpreting me. Just because the above are good things, and I agree that they are, doesn't mean that I believe that they should be implemented in the manner that the Greens want to implement them. Generally most parties share similar enough goals they just don't agree on how to get there or how to prioritise them.

csk

Dalfiatach wrote:

If that asshole Roche becomes Taoiseach, I'm taking to the wilds of Connemara and setting up a guerilla army to overthrow him by any means necessary :mad:

Yes and good luck to ya as I doubt you'll get your chance, at least I wouldn't hold my breathe if I were you ...

InFront

csk wrote:

Which brings us in a nice circular journey right back to the start. We don't know whether or not there will be a nuclear holocaust tomorrow, however it is reasonably to think we won't.

Look, the fact is that a vote for FF is a vote for an unknown Taoiseach.
You're trusting that party to decide amongst themselves who they want to lead us - unlike a general election where there is a vehicle for public influence over the decision.
It could be Cowen, it could be Cullen, it could be Micheal Martin, it could be Dick Roche. It worries me to think what the party who gave us a Minister of Defence playing war with army equipment would give us as a Taoiseach.

A vote for the coalition is a vote for a definite Taoiseach, and a definite Tanaiste. Why should anyone vote for a leader whose name they don't even know yet?! Saying 'eh we don't know, it might be Cowen though' isn't going to impress many people.

Dalfiatach

nesf wrote:

You're misinterpreting me. Just because the above are good things, and I agree that they are, doesn't mean that I believe that they should be implemented in the manner that the Greens want to implement them. Generally most parties share similar enough goals they just don't agree on how to get there or how to prioritise them.

Go on then, this should be good for a laugh....

What, specifically, are your issues with the manner in which the Greens want to implement things? Please support your answer with quotes from their manifesto and/or examples of actual Greens actually doing mad stuff....