New Mondeo

bazz26

Cyrus wrote:

i agree but it still doesnt make sense, if people actually sit done and work out the financial implications of buying a new car then depreciation is the single biggest factor.

Totally agree with you but if we all thought this way then there would be no used bargins out there anymore. Funny old world.

JoeA3

Cyrus wrote:

irish people seem to have a complete aversion to road tax, i can understand it if someone is on a tight budget buying second hand.

But buying a new car (at retail price anyway) is such a poor financial (and i stress financial i know there are other factors) decision, that a couple of hundred quid in tax is neither here nor there

Couldn't agree more. Hence 99% of Focus', Golfs, Astras sold here are wheezy 1.4's.

wingnut

I think I'm more annoyed about the loss of the cruise control

Skyuser

Sky News were outside the olympic stadium in Athens and Ford had some sponsership thing happening with loads of cars. The new Mondeo was there but it was the hatchback model. Why do they keep using the hatchback model when displaying the new mondeo, the saloon is way nicer.

maidhc

bazz26 wrote:

Indeed. I am also amazed that they didn't put the 1.6 110bhp TDCi engine into it instead of the older 1.8 litre 100bhp unit they are offering in the LX.

The 1.8 TDCis saving grace is that it is
a) Efficient
b) Cheap to build
c) Very easy to get to comply with Euro IV
d) Well proven

The 100 bhp version is pretty pointless, but I think the 125bhp version makes a decent case for itself.

Sandwich

bazz26 wrote:

The new Mondeo has the biggest dimensions of any car in this class, with only 110bhp the car is really going to struggle. Even the slightly lighter Passat with 115bhp and the Avensis with 110bhp are both underpowered in 1.6 litre form. Ultimately though in Ireland these versions are in high demand both new and used.

These versions are in high demand both new and used because your statement is incorrect - they are not 'underpowered'. They can accelerate and cruise at a rate that is more than enough for most poeple - and so being cheaper and more economical to run than more powerful engines they are chosen by many.

Of course if you want 0-100km/h in 8s then they do not have the power, but then you are want 'fun' driving. Most people just want comfortable and cheap A to B driving.

maidhc

Sandwich wrote:

Of course if you want 0-100km/h in 8s then they do not have the power, but then you are want 'fun' driving. Most people just want comfortable and cheap A to B driving.

Exactly. I had this argument with a friend who drives a 1.4 Golf. I told her it didn't have the power to overtake trucks and the like. She said "I don't want to overtake trucks!"

colm_mcm

A 1.4 Golf will be enough for a lot of people. e.g. If you live in Kildare and work in Dublin, it's dual carraigeways all the way, and they're plenty powerful enough for traffic jams.

bennyx_o

Theres a good few of these sitting in the car compound at work ATM. They look better in person than they do in the pics for some reason.

E92

Sandwich wrote:

These versions are in high demand both new and used because your statement is incorrect - they are not 'underpowered'. They can accelerate and cruise at a rate that is more than enough for most poeple - and so being cheaper and more economical to run than more powerful engines they are chosen by many.

Of course if you want 0-100km/h in 8s then they do not have the power, but then you are want 'fun' driving. Most people just want comfortable and cheap A to B driving.

Thats fine but if an engine is not going to be capable of providing adequate performance then the engine will end up being worked very hard and will impact very negatively on fuel consumption. People have the misconception that bigger engine= more fuel consumption. That is simply too much of a generalisation. The Mondeo with the 2 litre petrol engine may actually end up being more economical in the real world(than the 1.6), because there will be 35 bhp more available and therefore it will not need to be worked anything like as hard as the 1.6. Thats why diesels are a much better choice, because they have all that torque, and dont need to be worked very hard at all since they are best at 2000-3000 rpm, whereas a petrol engine is only getting into its stride at 3,000 rpm, petrols do their best work at around 4,000-5,500 rpm, a diesel has nothing to offer after 3,500 rpm or on a good one 4,000 rpm. As they give their best at low revs they don't need to be worked hard and therefore are very economical.

colm_mcm

this is true, but in this segment, given the choice, most people will spend extra money on gadgets or nicer wheels rather than a bigger engine. I've never sold an Avensis with a 2.0 or 2.4 petrol engine

Henry Ford III

colm_mcm wrote:

this is true, but in this segment, given the choice, most people will spend extra money on gadgets or nicer wheels rather than a bigger engine. I've never sold an Avensis with a 2.0 or 2.4 petrol engine

Foreshame.

bazz26

Sandwich wrote:

These versions are in high demand both new and used because your statement is incorrect - they are not 'underpowered'. They can accelerate and cruise at a rate that is more than enough for most poeple - and so being cheaper and more economical to run than more powerful engines they are chosen by many.

Of course if you want 0-100km/h in 8s then they do not have the power, but then you are want 'fun' driving. Most people just want comfortable and cheap A to B driving.

I'm not a speed freak nor am I one of those "bigger is better" type drivers as I drive a 1.8 Avensis but have you driven any of the above mentioned varients? I have driven both the Avensis and Passat in 1.6 form and they struggle. Yes they will happily cruise at motor way speed but when it comes to safe, quick overtaking in these cars you need to plan your maneuver well in advance. I'm not talking about reckless thoughtless overtaking either but rather the need for enough power to complete the maneuver as quickly and as safely as possible. It all boils down to the power to weight ratio of the car, as cars are jammed packed with more safety gadgets these days they are getting bigger and heavier these engines struggle to pull the body, this also has a knock on effect on fuel economy as the engine has to work harder. For example, my father in law has a 1.6 Avensis and is getting roughly similar mpg to my 1.8 version. Only real difference is that I pay €80 or so more road tax a year than him.

The reason these cars are available here is because they are what sell here which is understandable, demand dictates supply. Most are not available in other countries however as these countries do not punish motorists as much for driving larger engines. BTW my father in law has a 1.6 Avensis and is getting roughly similar mpg to my 1.8 version.

Sandwich

bazz26 wrote:

I'm not a speed freak nor am I one of those "bigger is better" type drivers as I drive a 1.8 Avensis but have you driven any of the above mentioned varients?

Yes, had the last model Passat 1.6 for 3 years. Of course, not as quick as the 1.8 Alfa 156 I had after it, and 'sluggish' is hard to define, but to say the car was underpower suggets in some way that it is not fit for purpose - and I would sstrongly dispute that. Now have the newer Passat TDI 105, slower than the Alfa also, but much the same as the 1.6Passat that I can remember. 105bhp still plenty for most drivers in what is a relatively big car. Passat/Mondeo/Avensis type cars with anything above 100bhp are fine for most drivers.

I have nothing against those who buy more powerful cars either - I very much enjoyed the Alfa responsiveness. But I think 'drivers' who are into cars as an active interest are far fewer than the mass market that just want a car as a mode of transport. And as another poster said, most with a few extra 1000 to put into their car prefer a more comfortable/accessorised cabin to and extra 30bhp under the bonnet.

E92

And when you consider that the Avensis 1.6 is asking 110 bhp to pull 1245 kg, and the Mondeo is asking 108 bhp to pull 1435 kg or 190 kg more which is the equivalant of putting 2 average weight men into the Avensis. Its little wonder that the Avensis 1.6 goes from 0 - 100 km/h in 12 seconds and the Mondeo takes 12.7 to do the same sprint. In fact the 1.6 Avensis is faster than 123 bhp Mondeo 1.6 (123 bhp does the 0 -100 dash in 12.3 s), so that clearly demonstrates the trouble the 1.6 Mondeo is in. Even the 99 bhp 1.8 paraffin stove will be a much better choice(than the more powerful 1.6 too), and the 123 bhp 1.8 TDCi would be a far superior option altogether. Thats the model to buy here. its one of the few diesel cars of this size that avoids the 30% VRT rating. Ford have brought back the Lynx diesel or the Endura TDdi (the 1.8 1753 cc unit) in the Focus and C-Max too.
@Skyuser they use the hatchback because the Brits hate saloons and because we are the only country that likes saloon cars in Europe.(though I believe that the Spanish and Portugese like them too,and I know that the Germans like saloons as well). I actually think it is odd that Ford decided to sell the hatchback model, since they are moving the Mondeo upmarket, and upmarket family cars are always saloons.

I think that one of the greatest tragedies of VRT is that people have to drive the smallest possible engined version of a car, even though the smallest engine is often put in specially to save us Irish a few bob, and not capable of moving the car's weight around adequately. Another tradgedy is that we get left out on things like ESP, more advanced engines (like the VW Jetta, where the cheapest engine doesnt have the FSi technology here or the 1 series, where the 118i is 12 mpg more economical than the 116i or the Golf where they give us the old fashioned 1.6 to start off with, or the 3 series saloon where the 1.6 316i was brought in specially for the Irish market). Although I have noticed that with premium badged cars in particular, people are not content with buying bottom of the range cars as much as they used to be, with feck all as standard, which has to be welcomed.

maidhc

E92 wrote:

Thats the model to buy here. its one of the few diesel cars of this size that avoids the 30% VRT rating. Ford have brought back the Lynx diesel or the Endura TDdi (the 1.8 1753 cc unit) in the Focus and C-Max too.

Its a Duratorq. The Endura TDDi died out with the previous generation Focus. Both are 1753cc 8 valvers, as is the original Mondeo Turbo diesel. You wouldn't guess the engines have anything in common if you are to drive them though.

re the 1.6 mondeo:
If people are happy with taking a hit in performance, they are getting a serious amount of car for €25k. They don't have to buy it. Pity it doesn't have the Ti-VCT though, or even the option of it.

Henry Ford III

E92 wrote:

...Ford have brought back the Lynx diesel or the Endura TDdi (the 1.8 1753 cc unit) in the Focus and C-Max too....

That base unit was never pulled from the market. In TDCI form it's a good power unit.

unkel

colm_mcm wrote:

I've never sold an Avensis with a 2.0 or 2.4 petrol engine

That's shocking. 2.0 petrols seemed common enough here in the D-segment until recently. Say roughly 5-10% in a car that typically came with 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 petrols and a 2.0 diesel

E92 wrote:

190 kg more which is the equivalant of putting 2 average weight men

I'm getting there myself but I don't think the average man weighs 95KG, even in the fat USofA

E92

Sorry Maidhc,I was just testing to see if anyone would notice in my earlier post:D . My apologies but seriously, I did make a couple of typo errors re the Endura engine, which is as you say completely untrue, however the 1.8 TDCi is also known as the Lynx engine(more commonly known as you said as the Duratorq TDCi), just like the Zetec SE(now Duratec<1.7 litres, Zetec E refers to >1.7 l) petrols are sometimes refered to as the Sigma engine(actually Sigma is the proper name for it, as Mazda sold it as the MZI engine and Ford as the Zetec SE, and later Duratec).

Owen

There's about 300 in a compound where we keep our cars, and they're the ugliest, fuglist things I've ever seen. I used to be a big Mondeo fan, and now I'm not sure. Various specs, basic, Zetec, and I think I saw one or two Ghias. It's like an oversized Punto now.

colm_mcm

unkel wrote:

That's shocking. 2.0 petrols seemed common enough here in the D-segment until recently. Say roughly 5-10% in a car that typically came with 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 petrols and a 2.0 diesel



I'm getting there myself but I don't think the average man weighs 95KG, even in the fat USofA

A lot of the reason the Avensis 2.0 VVT-i Sol doesn't sell is that you only get 17" alloys, a better stereo, and wood trim (and the option of an ivory interior) over what the 2.0 D-4D Luna model gets.
The diesel Luna has over 100 NM more torque and is more efficent, it also has 6 gears, and costs 3,300 less to buy. Toyota have also made only models the leather pack available, pushing the price up more.

bazz26

unkel wrote:

That's shocking. 2.0 petrols seemed common enough here in the D-segment until recently. Say roughly 5-10% in a car that typically came with 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 petrols and a 2.0 diesel

2.0 litre or above petrol engine main stream cars are expensive when new and difficult enough to shift second hand. Hence the demise over the years of cars like the Scorpio, Camry, Omega, etc.

A 2.4 litre Avensis or 2.5 litre Mondeo will set you back a whopping €44k new and you'll be lucky to see half of that back after 2 years. Your also into junior executive car territory at those prices.

colm_mcm

Yeah, who wants a front wheel drive 4 cylinder petrol car for 44k, unless it's an A4!

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote:

Yeah, who wants a front wheel drive 4 cylinder petrol car for 44k, unless it's an A4!

Tom Hogan in Ennis has a 2006 pre facelift 2.4 petrol Avensis "demo" for sale. He cannot shift it for love nor money.

I remember a local Nissan dealer had a 2.5 litre MkII Mondeo Ghia X on his forecourt for over a year. It was growning moss around the wheels.

Henry Ford III

ned78 wrote:

There's about 300 in a compound where we keep our cars, and they're the ugliest, fuglist things I've ever seen. I used to be a big Mondeo fan, and now I'm not sure. Various specs, basic, Zetec, and I think I saw one or two Ghias. It's like an oversized Punto now.

Go on out of it!

Casino Royalle? It's a good looking car.

wingnut

I am seriously wondering how much it would be to buy new in the UK, claim back the UK Vat, pay the Irish VAT and VRT. If it wasn't too much more than the Irish price it would be worth it for the better 1.6 and cruise and probably a few other small extras sacrificed in the name of VRT.