The Green Party are scary!

DarkJager

Well petrol is already at 1.15 so another 20 cent onto that makes it 1.35 a litre. So a 40 litre tank of petrol (average amount for a week) is going to cost me 54 euro compared to 46 euro at the moment.

The greens will not be getting my vote either way. They are more concerned with saving the planet than dealing with the issues that really affect people.

Akrasia

Deleted User wrote:

Apparently scientists now claiming that average temperature in Mars has gone up 0.5 degress in past 20 years, which is more than this planet. They have no idea how this happened yet, but clearly it shows that climate change can happen without industrialisation, CFCs, holes in ozone layers, overuse of fossil fuels, car emissions, breach of Kyoto Treaties etc. etc. That doesn't render the Green message invalid, but bet they don't point out those findings either.

Do you have a link?
We've been subjected to a lot of claims from 'scientists/lobbiests' over the years.

marie_85

DarkJager wrote:

The greens will not be getting my vote either way. They are more concerned with saving the planet than dealing with the issues that really affect people.

Come back to me in twenty years time when climate change has become a reality that nobody can ignore and say that again! The current half measures being taken by the present government are not enough, and it is my generation that is going to have to pay the price for their inefficiency.

And have you actually looked at their manifesto? It's not solely concerned with climate change. In fact, the majority is devoted to issues like health, energy, transport, education, in short all the issues that affect the Irish people. It's a misinformed opinion that states that all the Greens care about is the environment.

McSandwich

borg07 wrote:

It may be fine for people in cities but not for those who live in the countryside and need cars, nor for those who have to commute to long distances, not to mention the transport industry, it will severely effect them and all of us by driving up the cost of goods.

Therefore it is a terrible idea

If you look at the fuel consumption figures for any car, you will see that urban driving uses the most fuel. My car will do about 400Km on a full tank city driving but nearly double that for long journeys.

The transport industry is a different matter, given that they pay commercial rates for vrt and tax, I expect exemptions will apply.

dregin

My local greens representative is pushing for the re-opening of the Cavan/Monaghan train routes. This is a much needed service that we've done without for far too long. He'll be getting my number one.

The_Minister

brianthebard wrote:

Its been said several times on different threads that they don't plan to stop any present projects.

They wil not commit to bringing in moterways that have not had the contracts signed.
When asked if he would build the road from Dublin-Galway, he replied "we'll get you there by train"

DarkJager

Well I'm not worried at all about climate change to be honest so have no love for any policies that are designed to combat it, especially when they involve my wallet getting hit... Not to sound like some enviroment poisoning snob, but I really couldn't care less about it.

The Greens promises for healthcare, transport and education are mediocre at best and definitely not something they should be priding themselves on.

McSandwich

DarkJager wrote:

Well I'm not worried at all about climate change to be honest so have no love for any policies that are designed to combat it, especially when they involve my wallet getting hit... Not to sound like some enviroment poisoning snob, but I really couldn't care less about it.

You should save that quote for your grand children

DarkJager

I won't be around but I'll be sure to leave it engraved somewhere for them!

McSandwich

The_Minister wrote:

They wil not commit to bringing in moterways that have not had the contracts signed.
When asked if he would build the road from Dublin-Galway, he replied "we'll get you there by train"

World oil supplies aren't going to last forever (production has already peaked) and prices are already rising. All that expensive motorway might not be very useful in years to come...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3777413.stm

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2300

http://www.worldoil.com/Magazine/MAGAZINE_DETAIL.asp?ART_ID=3163&MONTH_YEAR=Apr-2007

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote:

Do you have a link?
We've been subjected to a lot of claims from 'scientists/lobbiests' over the years.

It was carried on some paper over the weekend.

Here's an old report from National Geographic. I have no idea if whats said is true, just that's its a change from the 'the sky is falling in and it's all our fault but we can change the world' angle...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

karen3212

Ballybrickenman wrote:

Does anybody find that the Green Party are resorting to environmental scare tactics, or is it just me? Last night Trevor Sargent said on TV3 that it was fact that CO2 was causing climate change. I found this an inaccurate & scare mongering statement. How the climate works is not understood enough to be able to say that CO2 is to blame for the period of climate change we are in.

Yeah, I've heard scientists say that they don't have 100% proof that smoking causes lung cancer either, but........ really generally speaking it does.

So they are as sure as they can be,
If you were standing in the middle of the road, and if 100 roadwatchers told you that there was a 95% chance there was a huge truck heading straight for you, would you want to move off the road. Now if they asked you for 100000 euro that could be paid over 20 years and said they could help you get off the road, would you give it to them, even if there was one there telling you that the others were lying?
That is the question I ask myself, and yes I would give them the 100000 to get me off the road.

Lennoxschips

They are more concerned with saving the planet than dealing with the issues that really affect people.

Heh. I assume you live on this planet, so that issue affects you too.

But besides that, they want better transport, better educations, hospitals etc.

Vegeta

Not a fan of the greens policies either.

Its a pitty because they seem like a party who would actually get something done.

BBM77

Call_me_al wrote:

dont know if i agree with your position here.

This is only a parts per million graph, in percentage terms CO2 is .04% of the total atmosphere which is in a lot of scientists view is far to small to cause a global temperature increase and I for one think they are right.

Akrasia

The_Minister wrote:

They wil not commit to bringing in moterways that have not had the contracts signed.
When asked if he would build the road from Dublin-Galway, he replied "we'll get you there by train"

There already is a road from Dublin to Galway. If there was a better public transport system then it wouldn't be so congested and we might not need such a radical upgrade

BBM77

Lennoxschips wrote:

Well, let's see this evidence then.

Because thousands of scientists don't agree with you, but you must know something they don't.

To list just two:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/358953.stm


You know the CO2 causing global warming theory is exactly that, only a theory, it could be wrong. As I said, not enough is know about the workings of the earth’s climate to be able to say for certain what is causing global temperature increase, no scientist would be arrogant enough to say that. Quoting it as fact on a TV debate is guided by self-interest, not an honest explanation of a serious topic.

The Green Party is taking the CO2 theory as fact and wants to legislate and impose taxes for that reason should they be part a future government. I believe that it is wrong for a political party to be stating a theory as fact and expect the public to then pay extra taxes based on that theory.

McSandwich

Ballybrickenman wrote:

This is only a parts per million graph, in percentage terms CO2 is .04% of the total atmosphere which is in a lot of scientists view is far to small to cause a global temperature increase and I for one think they are right.

Based on what?

http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/channel/earth/climate-change/mg19425993.000-editorial-nowhere-to-turn-for-climate-change-deniers.html

[edit]

If you plotted % instead of ppm, it would still look the same, it's just a different scale!

[/edit]

BBM77

Akrasia wrote:

That's because it is a fact that CO2 is the primary driver of climate change. As close to a fact as we can get about a complex ecological system.

I don't suppose you deny evolution too?

Evolution is a proven fact.

CO2 as the primary driver of climate change is far from a proven fact. I do not understand why people are saying it is.

Akrasia

Ballybrickenman wrote:

This is only a parts per million graph, in percentage terms CO2 is .04% of the total atmosphere which is in a lot of scientists view is far to small to cause a global temperature increase and I for one think they are right.

A lot of scientists? Who?

If you think small changes to biochemistry can't have a big effect, off you go and take a few ecstasy tablets. a few MG in about 5 litres of blood can have drastic effects.

The Biosphere is a similar complex system, small changes can have a big effect. A small amount of CFC pollution had an effect (a decline of 4% a year) on the Ozone Layer which had drastic effects on ground radiation

BBM77

Akrasia wrote:

A lot of scientists? Who?

If you think small changes to biochemistry can't have a big effect, off you go and take a few ecstasy tablets. a few MG in about 5 litres of blood can have drastic effects.

The Biosphere is a similar complex system, small changes can have a big effect. A small amount of CFC pollution had an effect (a decline of 4% a year) on the Ozone Layer which had drastic effects on ground radiation

The ozone layer is only a very thin layer it is not comparable to the entire atmosphere. Also the pollutants in question are not natural to the atmosphere, CO2 is and naturally fluctuates over time and the climate copes.

BBM77

McSandwich wrote:

Read some of the links here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055087361

Fair enough, I am not denying global warming is happening now. I am saying the cause is not certain, that is all.

brianthebard

Ballybrickenman wrote:

Evolution is a proven fact.

Eh no its not, its still a theory. It may be the best theory available, and people may be 99% sure of it but it is still very much a theory.

Lennoxschips

If there was no CO2 in the atmostphere, we'd be living on a ball of ice. That's how important that 0.4% is.

I don't think there is a single climate scientist who denies the important role that small amount of CO2 has to play. It would be like a structural engineer dismissing gravity as irrelevant.

BBM77

brianthebard wrote:

Eh no its not, its still a theory. It may be the best theory available, and people may be 99% sure of it but it is still very much a theory.

Good point and CO2 and climate change is very much the same, still just a theory that in my opinion still needs to be refined.

leeptr

In relation to the telegraph article you should maybe read read this ,
http://mediamatters.org/items/200509230005
The article quotes a press release from the Institute that ran the study referenced in the Telegraph :
"These scientific results therefore bring the influence of the Sun on the terrestrial climate, and in particular its contribution to the global warming of the 20th century, into the forefront of current interest. However, researchers at the MPS have shown that the Sun can be responsible for, at most, only a small part of the warming over the last 20-30 years."
Also worth noting is the graph at the bottom of the media matters article .

jhegarty

I am the only ones who knows that motorway cause cars to emit less then n roads ?


we should have a choice... take the train or a motorway...

Múinteoir

brianthebard wrote:

Eh no its not, its still a theory. It may be the best theory available, and people may be 99% sure of it but it is still very much a theory.

It's just a theory in so much as gravity is just a theory.
As regards the Greens' message even if a person rejects the idea of human activity affecting global warming (which has mountains of scientific evidence to support it), they're not addressing the fact that our economy is dangerously dependent on a finite fuel that is starting to rocket in price and economies much more developed than ours, already have plans in motion to be completely weaned off their dependence on oil by 2050. As per usual, the Irish seem determined to be Paddy-Last (excuse the pun) and only make the inevitable changes when it already has the economy in tatters and not now, when it can still be a relatively painless transition.
Isn't it funny how just stating the plain honest truth, gets you labelled as "scaremongering". :roll:

brianthebard

M&#250 wrote: »

It's just a theory in so much as gravity is just a theory.

And its important to know that as a theory it is not some sort of unchangeable concept, there are alternative theories and updates being discovered all the time. The modern concept of gravity has changed since Newton's time and will probably change again. To dismiss something as "just a theory" is to completely ignore why scientists call it a theory at all, and to furthermore miss the point the OP was making, that declaring such things as immoveable fact means you lose the ability to look at a concept in a different light.

McSandwich

Lennoxschips wrote:

If there was no CO2 in the atmostphere, we'd be living on a ball of ice. That's how important that 0.4% is.

I don't think there is a single climate scientist who denies the important role that small amount of CO2 has to play. It would be like a structural engineer dismissing gravity as irrelevant.

Yes, it's a finely balanced system which is a good reason to treat it with respect. BTW, if there was no CO2 in the athmosphere, we'd all die as it's required to trigger our breathing reflex. Hospital O2 tanks contain about 5% CO2.