The Green Party are scary!

bk

McSandwich wrote:

That's true, but being off-shore makes that more likely.

More likely isn't good enough. It has to produce power 100% of the time, otherwise you need to have a base load generator (coal, oil, gas, peat, etc.) as backup.

McSandwich wrote:

Also, generated energy can be stored (in liquid elecrolyte tanks - I can't find the link).

Electricity can't be stored in large scale.

McSandwich wrote:

Whatever about wind, tides will always ebb and flow (unless the moon leaves us) making this a reliable energy source.

Tidal power is incredibly unstable and fragile. That is why it still isn't done anywhere in the world on any sort of large scale.

SeanW

The two largest suppliers of Uranium are Canada and Australia. So political stability isn't a problem. BTW those wind turbines are not reliable at all. check www.eirgrid.ie for quarter-hourly figures.

Yesterday, for example, nationwide wind plant outputs collapsed by almost 500MW over the course of the day. That 500MW had to have something else running on standby, waiting to pick up the slack. As did the other 180 odd MW that didn't fall offline but could have done.

Don't bring up the dead language argument, it's a load of cr*p.

Err ... no it's not.

McSandwich

SEANW wrote:

BTW those wind turbines are not reliable at all. check www.eirgrid.ie for quarter-hourly figures.

Yesterday, for example, nationwide wind plant outputs collapsed by almost 500MW over the course of the day. That 500MW had to have something else running on standby, waiting to pick up the slack. As did the other 180 odd MW that didn't fall offline but could have done.

bk wrote:

More likely isn't good enough. It has to produce power 100% of the time, otherwise you need to have a base load generator (coal, oil, gas, peat, etc.) as backup.

Thanks for the link, had a look at the eirGrid stats, I didn't realise they provided them. It doesn't look great alright, but it doesn't give separate onshore versus offshore data. The relatively smooth sea surface allows higher wind speed and less turbulence and therefore more reliable generation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power#Offshore

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3063433.stm

Future wind generation in Europe will be offshore, with the 'supergrid' produce 10GW, see (page 9/10):

http://www.airtricity.ie/ireland/media_center/documents_forms/corporate_documents/Supergrid%20V1.4%20(printed).pdf

bk wrote:

Electricity can't be stored in large scale.

Look up 'Flow Battery'

http://www.worldoil.com/Magazine/MAGAZINE_DETAIL.asp?ART_ID=3195&MONTH_YEAR=May-2007

http://www.leonardo-energy.org/drupal/node/959

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery

bk wrote:

Tidal power is incredibly unstable and fragile. That is why it still isn't done anywhere in the world on any sort of large scale.

This is why I linked to OpenHydro which is based on new apparently more reliable technology:

http://www.openhydro.com/technology.html

The Canadians are hoping to generate 300MW using this system as a replacement for a 20MW system which is now in reliable operation for 25 years.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/energy/tidal-power.html

johnlambe

SeanW wrote:

2: Renewable resources can provide the
necessary power

When the wind is blowing - wind has the fundamental flaw of being as predictable as the wind

Yes, but how often does the wind stop blowing over the entire country at the same time?

You have to plan for its output based on an average spread across multiple sites, plus some spinning reserve.

Also, if we traded electricity with the rest of Europe, fluctuations throughout the whole system would be lower (proportionally) - an average of a larger sample - thus requiring a lower spinning reserve.

johnlambe

The case for public transport:
- A proper public transport system could make a lot of journey times shorter than it currently takes by car.
- For those who public transport was still not suitable for (or who just like their cars), their journey times would be reduced too, due to reduced traffic. (One typical bus/tram/train replaces a lot of cars).
- It reduces air pollution.
- It reduces fossil fuel usage, thus giving us more time to switch to renewables, and helping to keep inflation down.
- It contributes to slowing down climate change.

bk

johnlambe wrote:

The case for public transport:

I think we all agree in the importance of public transport, no argument there. The problem however is not building up a good road infrastructure when no decent public transport exists.

If you look at the countries with the best public transport, they usually also have the best road infrastructure in the world.

In fairness to the government, most of the road projects in T21 are actually from the last National Development Plan and are really just been finished off during the start of T21. Nearly all of the projects in the new National Development Plan (second half of T21) are public transport rail based projects.

In fact the lack of road projects in the second half of T21 is very noticeable. By 2010 the M50 upgrade, 5 inter urban motorways will be finished. Then there are no more major road projects planned, the later half of T21 (after 2010) consists of Metro, Luas extensions, Dart interconnector and extensions. All very focused on public transport.

John, with all due respect, your post is an example of what I think is wrong with the green party. It has a very condescending tone, giving a very simplistic explanation of what public transport is and the benefits of it, which I'm sure that all of the very well educated posters here on boards know very well and don't need to be told.

What your post ignores is the reality of what most people have to endure in their transport choices every day. We would all love to have a highly efficient and reliable public transport system like London, but the reality is we don't and it is something that will take a long time to build up and develop with careful thought and planning, while at the same time respecting the difficulties faced by many people who will likely never have access to decent public transport.