Cannabis

Dar

JC 2K3 wrote:

And anyway, alcohol and tobacco are near the top of any "most dangerous recreational substances" list. If you wanted to reduce the amount of people in hospital due to legal drug abuse, it'd make more sense to illegalise tobacco and alcohol and legalise weed and MDMA.

God no. The incidence of alchocol poisoning in the states rose dramatically during the prohibition period, and dropped off again once prohibition was lifted. By banning the sale of a substance, you hand a new revenue stream to the gangsters and make any kind of quality control impossible. This results in MORE people dying, not less.

JC 2K3

Notice where I said "due to legal drug abuse".

Dar

My apologies, alcohol/tabacco would indeed reduce the amount of people in hospital due to legal drug abuse. Of course this would be also put even more people in hostpital due to illegal drug abuse. I'd call it rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, but at least rearranging the deck chairs won't make the ship sink faster

Tchocky

I brought up the point to counter the 'all these new canncabis users will be using hospitals paid for with my tax' fallacy.

I wasn't narrowing down to cannabis, I was trying to pin down my objection to the idea of legalising everything. you even quoted it.

Liam Byrne

Having seen so many idiotic teens and 20-somethings completely wasted (in a usually aggressive manner) any weekend night, I'd much prefer if they were on cannabis....

Of course, the main issue isn't the drug of choice itself (alcohol, tobacco or cannabis) it's (a) how it's used and (b) what's mixed in with it.

Anyone currently abusing alcohol (and going out specifically "to get wasted", rather than having the alcohol as a merely part of an overall night) isn't mature enough to drink or smoke anything......I've met people who actually boast about not remembering how they got home, rather than being embarrassed about it!

And the tobacco itself in moderation isn't an issue - it's the tar and other **** that's in fags.

So if you were to legalise pure cannabis - no tar, no sneaky carcinogens or other crap - and people smoked it instead of drinking, that's fine by me.

But I don't think it would solve the amount of drunken, aggressive, immature idiots that are on our streets at the weekends.....they seem to get their kicks from how stupidly aggressive drink makes them, so I can't see them settling for being chilled out in a corner....

JC 2K3

Dar wrote:

My apologies, alcohol/tabacco would indeed reduce the amount of people in hospital due to legal drug abuse. Of course this would be also put even more people in hostpital due to illegal drug abuse. I'd call it rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, but at least rearranging the deck chairs won't make the ship sink faster

Well Rock Climber's logic seemed a bit like "if we make it illegal, less people will do it", and I was going with that. My point was essentially that if we had to choose one or two safe recreational drugs to legalise, by any logic they would not be alcohol or tobacco.

layke

Tzetze wrote:

If dope becomes legalised, the nation will cease to be productive little lab rats. Keep them on nicotine and caffeine!

Bang on.

Look guys I know a lot of people quoted me telling me to take a look around cannabis is everywhere etc. I know this, i've grown up in Dublin and over my 25 years on this planet have met thousands of people who smoke. But I still think that any drug, be it cannabis or alcohol should be discouraged. If you don't drink you don't feel the need to go out and piss your money against a wall. I know that weed robs you of your motivation and drive (fact) and I won't bother to tell everyone again about the problems that can arise from alcohol abuse as i'm sure everyone knows. The point i'm making is if you legalise it, chances are your going to end up giving people a real reason to smoke. People can argue that Amsterdam has less smokers per head yada yada, were not them. They have a different culture to ourselves so don't compare.

sam34 wrote:

instead of going to parties maybe you should call in to your local friendly acute psychiatric unit and then you'd get to meet sone people with a cannabis induced psychosis.
google robin murray and you'll come across his research on the topic

Sam, out of the thousands I've known yes there have been one or two that were smokers and ended up in a crazy house for a period of time BUT from my experience these people tend to have problems before they start smoking. Perhaps it exascerbates their problem, I dunno but it's like any drug for some people it don't mix that's including legal drugs.

JC 2K3

layke wrote:

Look guys I know a lot of people quoted me telling me to take a look around cannabis is everywhere etc. I know this, i've grown up in Dublin and over my 25 years on this planet have met thousands of people who smoke. But I still think that any drug, be it cannabis or alcohol should be discouraged. If you don't drink you don't feel the need to go out and piss your money against a wall. I know that weed robs you of your motivation and drive (fact) and I won't bother to tell everyone again about the problems that can arise from alcohol abuse as i'm sure everyone knows. The point i'm making is if you legalise it, chances are your going to end up giving people a real reason to smoke. People can argue that Amsterdam has less smokers per head yada yada, were not them. They have a different culture to ourselves so don't compare.

A lot of things could be and possibly should be discouraged because they are dangerous.

But that doesn't mean we should be robbed of the liberty to do these things if we really want to.

Catsmokinpot

Tchocky wrote:

Alcohol is only legal because of the horrible costs and general awkwardness of criminalising it. Like guns in the States. Not much reason to have them, but they aint going away.

how would alcohol be awkward to ban compared to anything else?

Liam Byrne

Catsmokinpot wrote:

how would alcohol be awkward to ban compared to anything else?

One simple answer: vested interests and politicians who are publicans.....just look at how many FFers are publicans and that'll give you an idea.

Look at what happened when McDowell tried to bring in cafe bars to give those of us who want more than just booze on a night out.

And assuming that it did go ahead then revoking of alcohol licences = MAJOR lawsuit by publicans.

NOT - GONNA - HAPPEN

Tzetze

Catsmokinpot wrote:

how would alcohol be awkward to ban compared to anything else?

Think it through for a milisecond. How many people in this country work in the pub/bar trade? Take alcohol off the shelves and how many of those people are now on the dole?

Then you'll have the HUGE increase of poitín sales and poitín related illnesses and hospital admission. Alcohol may be nasty at 4%(beer), 12%(wine) and 35ish%(spirits) proofs. Now, up that level to around 90% and consider the implications to public health.

I speak as a smoker of cannabis, salvia and spice. The biggest threat to young dope smokers is soapbar hash. Many people are uneducated to what exporters and middlemen bulk this stuff up with, and in my 15ish years of smoking cannabis (unfortunately the vast majority of which was soapbar), I've never come across ANY literature published by our government or healthboard to alert us to the dangers involved in smoking soapbar compared to quality cannabis.

Source

Beeswax, turpentine, milk powder, ketamine, boot polish, henna, pine resin, aspirin, animal turds, ground coffee, barbiturates, glues and dyes plus carcinogenic solvents such as Toluene and Benzene.

These are just some of the popular ingredients used to double the amount of cannabis for sale (doubling their profits).

I'm not saying the govt. has a duty to legalise cannabis, but it most certainly has a duty to tell the smokers of soap in this country what exactly their current legislation has turned the dope on the streets into.

Boggle

I know that weed robs you of your motivation and drive (fact)

I know that alot of people claim this but to be honest I know plenty of people who smoke regularly but are extremely driven people. That said I know a few who you could claim cannabis robbed of their motivation and drive - problem is that most of them were either spoilt in the first place (hence affording it), expecting life to roll in on the silver platter, or had plenty of ambition but no work ethic...

lot of things could be and possibly should be discouraged because they are dangerous.

But that doesn't mean we should be robbed of the liberty to do these things if we really want to.

I agree, I know plenty of people who have had serious injuries from sport yet I have never heard for a ban on, say, rugby!!


edited to repair messed up quote...

J.S. Pill

God-damn stoners!

Don't you people watch Home and Away?

Cannabis causes instant psychosis - period!

Tchocky

Catsmokinpot wrote:

how would alcohol be awkward to ban compared to anything else?

A massive pain, given the lucrative nature of the business, the jobs etc.

Didn't really think it through very far, more a reaction to the use of alcohol being legal to justify the legalisation of cannabis.

JC 2K3

Boggle wrote:

I know that alot of people claim this but to be honest I know plenty of people who smoke regularly but are extremely driven people. That said I know a few who you could claim cannabis robbed of their motivation and drive - problem is that most of them were either spoilt in the first place (hence affording it), expecting life to roll in on the silver platter, or had plenty of ambition but no work ethic...

I think a lot of what a drug does to you is what you let it do to you tbh.

Someone who gets "robbed of their motivation" probably decided before they even started heavy use of the drug that they were going to sit around all day and just smoke weed.

It's probably more a case of cannabis facilitating a lethargic lifestyle, eliminating the boredom that would usually arise as a result of such a lifestyle, rather than the drug itself robbing one of their motivation.

This could also be attributed to TV or the internet.

jonny72

Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, all nanny states, always will be.

I am living in a country now where you can walk down the road and put money into a magical machine and beer comes out. Pubs are open till 7 am. I am legally allowed to grow a plant for personal use. Aaahh, sweet freedom.

layke

Tbh, keep everyone happy. Make it illegal but if caught you just pay a f (small)ine.

Doing jail time in this day and age for having an Quarter in your pocket seems very excessive to me.

PeakOutput

layke wrote:

Tbh, keep everyone happy. Make it illegal but if caught you just pay a f (small)ine.

Doing jail time in this day and age for having an Quarter in your pocket seems very excessive to me.

I think you can only be jailed if you have 16ounces of hash(a bar) on you. my mate got caught with an ounce at oxygen last year and he got a thousand euro fine and the probation act for 6 months i think

Nick_oliveri

I thought having anything over a halve will get you busted for selling. I wouldnt trust that though. The coppers would probably have a different and somewhat ecessive weighing procedure.

bubonicus

PeakOutput wrote:

I think you can only be jailed if you have 16ounces of hash(a bar) on you. my mate got caught with an ounce at oxygen last year and he got a thousand euro fine and the probation act for 6 months i think

I'm glad i don't buy it off you infact i'm glad i don't buy it anymore.


edit : also just to stay on topic. yes legalize please.

I have been smoking cannabis for 13 years, and i have worked for the same company for 12, have a house, car and run a normalish life. Infact nearly all of my friends are the same. we all smoke everyday. And yes we are all criminals.



* 9 oz in a bar(hence it's called a nine bar) or 1/4 kilo

ronanp

If this thread has taught us anything its that not smoking cannabis seems to make you unreasonable, judgemental, and, well, pretty stupid.

PeakOutput

Nick_oliveri wrote:

I thought having anything over a halve will get you busted for selling. I wouldnt trust that though. The coppers would probably have a different and somewhat ecessive weighing procedure.

ye i dont know for definite all i know is possesion with intent was never even mentioned when he was caught with the ounce

PeakOutput

bubonicus wrote:

I'm glad i don't buy it off you infact i'm glad i don't buy it anymore.


edit : also just to stay on topic. yes legalize please.

I have been smoking cannabis for 13 years, and i have worked for the same company for 12, have a house, car and run a normalish life. Infact nearly all of my friends are the same. we all smoke everyday. And yes we are all criminals.



* 9 oz in a bar(hence it's called a nine bar) or 1/4 kilo

lol or if you had of gotten a bar it would of been massive lol

i havnt bought in about 6 years my bad

Catsmokinpot

J.S. Pill wrote:

God-damn stoners!

Don't you people watch Home and Away?

Cannabis causes instant psychosis - period!

what were you smoking to make you think we watch home and away?

and instant psychosis??? id like to see some proof of that please

edit: oh wait... were you being sarcastic?

oscarBravo

I think the fact that this has morphed from a discussion on the legalisation of cannabis to a discussion on cannabis indicates that it has run its course.