Reasons to Vote for Fianna Fail

patzer117

wow! it's not up to Fianna Fail, or Fine Gael and Labour, to provide the water, it's up to the county council. The government aren't responsible for things the county council does or doesn't do - you don't blame the government if the county council allows high rise apartments, and they don't get any credit if they get rejected etc.

inFront wrote:

Substandard rural water supplies will be eliminated during the lifetime of this Government, the Minister for the Environment, Mr Cullen, said yesterday.

The government provided the necessary funds. No other government could do better than that, as i said before it's a county council issue, if the funds are provided then you can't blame the government. they, in this case, did everything in their power to eliminate substandard rural water supplies etc.

leninbenjamin

patzer117 wrote:

wow! it's not up to Fianna Fail, or Fine Gael and Labour, to provide the water, it's up to the county council. The government aren't responsible for things the county council does or doesn't do - you don't blame the government if the county council allows high rise apartments, and they don't get any credit if they get rejected etc.



The government provided the necessary funds. No other government could do better than that, as i said before it's a county council issue, if the funds are provided then you can't blame the government. they, in this case, did everything in their power to eliminate substandard rural water supplies etc.

surely the government should have had proper plans in place for that money? i.e. "we'll give you €X if you build/do Y". Money without a plan is just thrown away.

and don't the goverment create the legal framework with which in the local councils operate? you can't obsolve them of blame entirely. I'm a firm believer of "it takes two to tango".

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

cm2000

McSandwich wrote:

They worked well last time, they also left the economy in a better state than it's in now, i.e. we were more competitive, had more exports, and were less reliant on construction.



Or give an alternative a chance to put it right, again..

we were competitive largely because in 1997 our wages were poor. now part of the reason that we have lost some competitivness-though not much given our near full employment- is because we have high wages

murphaph

If you like being allowed to drive untrained and untested on a provisional licence vote FF*












*Don't give me any BS about this also being the status in 1997 because FF have had a DECADE in which to sort out driver testing and training and haven't bothered.

patzer117

leninbenjamin wrote:

surely the government should have had proper plans in place for that money? i.e. "we'll give you €X if you build/do Y". Money without a plan is just thrown away.

Exactly! and that's Exactly what they did do! They gave the county council 20 million to improve the water in the area, the county council couldn't agree to do it, so it wasn't spent - it wasn't allowed to be spent on anything else, and it wasn't! so yes, you're completely right, and Fianna Fail did just that

InFront

Are you telling us that FF gave twenty million euro of taxpayers money to a bunch of incompetents, and were not even watching what they were doing with the money?
Cullen said "Substandard rural water supplies will be eliminated during the lifetime of this Government", not "the lifetime of that county council". It was clear that he was making a promise on behalf of his party, and it has completely backfired.

leninbenjamin

patzer117 wrote:

Exactly! and that's Exactly what they did do! They gave the county council 20 million to improve the water in the area, the county council couldn't agree to do it, so it wasn't spent - it wasn't allowed to be spent on anything else, and it wasn't! so yes, you're completely right, and Fianna Fail did just that

did they tell them which facilities to expand, which to revamp and what to build outright new? doesn't sound like it. a plan is different to mere intent. the money by the sounds of it was intended to better the water supply, but there was no specific plan in place as to how this was done.

patzer117

oh for goodness sake, enough of the Water issue. No party is making an issue of this because they all know it was the fault of the county council!

To get it straight - they did not waste tax payer's money. the money wasn't spent. it could not have been spent on anything but the water treatment. the county council couldn't agree on how to spend it best on water treatment so it wasn't spent. The government does not have any input as to how exactly it is spent, it can only say that it must be spent on water. no micro-managing leninbenjamin (hell, if you read the article above you'd realise all the other cocos did just fine and that it was a broader water plan which was designed well and worked grand)

The reason the pledge hasn't been fulfilled fully is not because of any failure on Fianna Fail or Martin Cullen's part, but rather on the part of a county council. Fianna Fail did everything in its power to clean up rural water supplies. They could not have done any more. They do not have the power to decide exactly how Galway County Council can spend the money. They can only say it must be spent on water. I challenge you to point out any different course that could have been take inFront, because it seems you're being hypocritical - you've no better solution but yet you still don't like it.

how about if you don't have a solution to the problem, or if you can't point out what could have been done differently to help Galway's water problem, well then we get onto a more important issue that a government may actually have an input on?!?




C'mon, challenge some of the proper stuff I said above... the real reasons why people should vote Fianna Fail

fly_agaric

patzer117 wrote:

wow! it's not up to Fianna Fail, or Fine Gael and Labour, to provide the water, it's up to the county council.

Which political party(s) control the council(s) involved here?:)

InFront

patzer117 wrote:

oh for goodness sake, enough of the Water issue.

Yeh, I bet the people of Galway find it boring too.

To get it straight - they did not waste tax payer's money. the money wasn't spent.

The fact that you don't see the latter as a problem is almost funny.

Fianna Fail did everything in its power to clean up rural water supplies. They could not have done any more.

You're saying that the Government of this country are simply incapable of providing clean water? This isn't India you know. Why do you think a Government is incapable of directing funds to ensure their promises are delivered?

I challenge you to point out any different course that could have been take inFront

If I was giving someone twenty million euro, I'd want to be sure they knew what to do with it. Stop trying to pass the buck, it's a FF screw up

Elmo

how about if you don't have a solution to the problem, or if you can't point out what could have been done differently to help Galway's water problem, well then we get onto a more important issue that a government may actually have an input on?!?

I am fairly certain that the government should make sure its waters are clean so that all of its citizen can drink that water and that business may use that water. The issue had been raised on several occassions. Both local and national politican's owe it to the people to make sure that thinks like this don't happen. Water is a huge part of people's lives, its hugely important.

Also you will note that Labour brought in Free education hence the reason why so many people now go to college.

Greendale Community School closed this week, I wonder what plans the government have for this school.

leninbenjamin

patzer117 wrote:

To get it straight - they did not waste tax payer's money.

i'm not saying they did, i'm just saying its reflective of a general attitude. throw money at a problem and hope it goes away without coming up with any real solutions/reforms that are necessary.

to go away from the water issue, the health system is another exampleof what i'm trying to point out here. they continually point out how we are spending more than ever on it blah blah blah... yet the actual two tier blurry lined system that's in place is a complete and utter mess (govt. effectively subsidising the private sector at the expense of the public for example). they've had 10 years to reform it, jet they've just aggravated it further in that time.

edit: oh and forgive me from pushing the whole water issue, but my sh*ts are still a bit runny.

Elmo

The government are over spending on bad management.

patzer117

i sincerely hope you're just winding me up now InFront. It's not an election issue because nobody else could do any different. It's why changing the title Taoiseach isn't an issue - everyone agrees on it. If you don't understand the principals of centralised government on an issue that all the parties agree on well maybe politics isn't the thing for you. It's not a FF screw up by any means as I've explained. how about you tackle the big issues and stop trying to derail this thread?

leninbenjamin

patzer117 wrote:

i sincerely hope you're just winding me up now InFront. It's not an election issue because nobody else could do any different.

it is for some thank you very much.

patzer117

leninbenjamin wrote:

to go away from the water issue, the health system is another exampleof what i'm trying to point out here. they continually point out how we are spending more than ever on it blah blah blah... yet the actual two tier blurry lined system that's in place is a complete and utter mess (govt. effectively subsidising the private sector at the expense of the public for example). they've had 10 years to reform it, jet they've just aggravated it further in that time.

glad to hear we're over it. Waiting lists have been cut by 50% in the past year for example, it's a huge problem, and it's not going to be solved easily, but it certainly won't be solved with FG and Labour taking 2 billion and giving it to the private sector by providing all Under 16s with free health insurance? that's pumping money directly from the public sector into the private sector. so you've identified a big problem with the govt. over subsidising the private sector, but now realise that FG plans to make it worse and aggravate it further

stepbar

patzer117 wrote:

i sincerely hope you're just winding me up now InFront. It's not an election issue because nobody else could do any different. It's why changing the title Taoiseach isn't an issue - everyone agrees on it. If you don't understand the principals of centralised government on an issue that all the parties agree on well maybe politics isn't the thing for you. It's not a FF screw up by any means as I've explained. how about you tackle the big issues and stop trying to derail this thread?

Where would you like to start? The Health service?

InFront

Elmo wrote:

Greendale Community School closed this week, I wonder what plans the government have for this school.

A five acre site on the DART line, close to the city centre? $$$

how about you tackle the big issues and stop trying to derail this thread?

Failure to ensure a clean water supply in a country like this, or handing over twenty million euro to what you seem to suggest are incompetent people, and then trying to shift the blame - this is a serious issue. It is negligence and lack of planning at its worst.

McSandwich

patzer117 wrote:

wow! it's not up to Fianna Fail, or Fine Gael and Labour, to provide the water, it's up to the county council. The government aren't responsible for things the county council does or doesn't do - you don't blame the government if the county council allows high rise apartments, and they don't get any credit if they get rejected etc.

The government provided the necessary funds. No other government could do better than that, as i said before it's a county council issue, if the funds are provided then you can't blame the government. they, in this case, did everything in their power to eliminate substandard rural water supplies etc.

Yes, it comes under the remit of the Dept. of Environment, Heritage, and Local Government. (http://www.environ.ie/en/Environment/Water/)

While I don't expect them to perform the role of a county council, pollution of a major waterway is a National issue and the minister resposible should've intervened to prevent the crypto sporidium epidemic.

O'Cuiv got involved in micro management of local issues when he renamed Dingle and that was hardly an emergency or of National importance

stepbar

patzer117 wrote:

glad to hear we're over it. Waiting lists have been cut by 50% in the past year for example, it's a huge problem, and it's not going to be solved easily, but it certainly won't be solved with FG and Labour taking 2 billion and giving it to the private sector by providing all Under 16s with free health insurance? that's pumping money directly from the public sector into the private sector. so you've identified a big problem with the govt. over subsidising the private sector, but now realise that FG plans to make it worse and aggravate it further

O, but the government promised to clear all waiting lists within 2 years (back in 2002). So that would make them 3 years behind schedule, Yeah?

Elmo

A five acre site on the DART line, close to the city centre? $$$

So more housing and no school. I suppose the school kids can always use the dart to get into town.

In relation to Galway Council well every one will be glad to hear that each proposed government party have 6 members of the council each. 1 sinn fein, 1 indo and 1 green.

I do think that we should protect our waterways, and to think that such a problem is not an election issue is rubbish. There are other waterways just as bad out their.

Villain

patzer117 wrote:

Waiting lists have been cut by 50% in the past year for example, it's a huge problem, and it's not going to be solved easily, but it certainly won't be solved with FG and Labour taking 2 billion and giving it to the private sector by providing all Under 16s with free health insurance? that's pumping money directly from the public sector into the private sector. so you've identified a big problem with the govt. over subsidising the private sector, but now realise that FG plans to make it worse and aggravate it further

Oh right so this is where FF say "Ok we didn't do what we were going to do and alright the problem is bad real bad but it a tough one to solve and although we haven't been able to fix the problems in the last ten years those fella's in FG or Lanour won't either"

FF have FAILED on health if I was to socre them it would be an "NG", no matter what figures you throw out, the fact is FF had ten years to solve the health crisis but instead it has only gotten worse and don't try and blame the PD's either you let them take the Minisiter job.

McSandwich

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

If they waste less and improve efficiency then there's no reason why they (or indeed the current government) couldn't achieve that. If they plan to keep pumping money into health at the current rate (crazy for such a low population) without sorting out the underlying problems, then that's asking for trouble..

patzer117

stepbar wrote:

O, but the government promised to clear all waiting lists within 2 years (back in 2002). So that would make them 3 years behind schedule, Yeah?

yup! though in fairness waiting lists have been cut in half in the past year. They also established the successful Health Service Executive. they built a whole new section to St. Vincent's hospital, they've installed a whole range of new technologies (i don't know medical lingo) in the hospitals, and they are employing an extra however many consultants regardless of what the others say.

The Health Service has been improving dramatically for the past 5 years. Ask everyone involved.

Basically if you want a reason to vote Fianna Fail on the health service you say that they're getting there and their policies aren't ridiculous. FG and Labour however, taking money out of the public sector, which as we all know isn't in the best shape it could be, and putting it into the private sector, is ridiculous and should be abhorred. So even on the health service FF are better than the alternative

stepbar

patzer117 wrote:

yup! though in fairness waiting lists have been cut in half in the past year. They also established the successful Health Service Executive. they built a whole new section to St. Vincent's hospital, they've installed a whole range of new technologies (i don't know medical lingo) in the hospitals, and they are employing an extra however many consultants regardless of what the others say.

Basically if you want a reason to vote Fianna Fail on the health service you say that they're getting there and their policies aren't ridiculous. FG and Labour however, taking money out of the public sector, which as we all know isn't in the best shape it could be, and putting it into the private sector, is ridiculous and should be abhorred. So even on the health service FF are better than the alternative

O, what government has precided over the largest increase in private hospitals in 25 years?

O, but the government promised to clear all waiting lists within 2 years?

Villain

patzer117 wrote:

The Health Service has been improving dramatically for the past 5 years. Ask everyone involved.

Well considering I have the inside of one or two hospitals over the past 10 years I think I can be considered to be "involved" and I can tell you things have not been improving dramatically, to say so is just complete nonsense imo.

leninbenjamin

patzer117 wrote:

glad to hear we're over it. Waiting lists have been cut by 50% in the past year for example, it's a huge problem, and it's not going to be solved easily, but it certainly won't be solved with FG and Labour taking 2 billion and giving it to the private sector by providing all Under 16s with free health insurance? that's pumping money directly from the public sector into the private sector. so you've identified a big problem with the govt. over subsidising the private sector, but now realise that FG plans to make it worse and aggravate it further

i'm not saying i agree with that policy either. An Insurance system in itself might be good, you'd still be pumping a good bit of money int the economy (possibly money that would be used more efficiently), but it's the actual lines within the health system that pose the problem. If we had a proper distinction between private and public it might work, but as long as private patients are placed in public wards, public patients receiving private treatment at full cost to the exchequer, consultants catering for both private and public patients, blah blah blah, well you're right, i've yet to see a proper Fine Gael counter to this. and i havn't much hope either. Doesn't put Fianna Faíl in a better light though either, doesn't take away from the failed promises, the squandered finances etc. just means they are all a shower of...

God i wish we had some serious alternatives in this election.

InFront

patzer117 wrote:

the successful Health Service Executive.

In what context, exactly?

and they are employing an extra however many consultants regardless of what the others say.

What a joke, it's the specialist registrars themselves who are telling the government what a shambles the contracts are. They make a mockery of medical education. Consultants aren't appointed like political party candidates you know, stuffed into positions before big elections.

Basically if you want a reason to vote Fianna Fail on the health service you say that they're getting there and their policies aren't ridiculous

They said there would be no waiting lists by 2004, now that is going to come back to haunt them, there is no excuse. And anyway, it looks as though your Minister for Health won't even be back in Government, even if she wanted to be - which itself isn't even certain.
Fianna Fail says we have enough hospital beds, Fine Gael will create 2,300 of them

chump

I hope FF get re-elected, ideally all on their own. They have spun us this Economy, Stupid line for long enough and I want to see if they can handle things when it gets hot in the kitchen. They'll have no one to blame but themselves for letting the train off the track.

Go FF Go