New S.S. Electric Hob problems

Snaggerman

Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone might have any insight into this problem.
I installed a new kitchen over the weekend and Monday night was fitting the new hob and oven. (I have had the kitchen completely re-wired due to a totally different layout from the original, and purchased all new appliances). Anyway, after hooking up the oven with 6x and looping 6mm flex to the hob, everything seemed to be operating fine. The oven reached the proper temp and burnt off the residual oils as its supposed to do, however the hob started to overheat (S.S body, raised hob type).
The steel got very hot to the touch and smoked excessively, all in about fifteen mins. Ok, maybe a faulty one methinks, so whipped it out and returned it to DID this morning. No probs they said, heres a replacement. Problem is, the replacement one does the exact same thing!
I've checked with the electrician who wired the kitchen and he says that the wireing is spot on and shouldn't be an issue. I'm wondering if maybe the 6mm flex is too light, even though the manual says it's sufficient? Maybe someone might be able to advise before I go trotting back to DID looking for another replacement,
Thanks in advance!

GreeBo

If the 6mm was too small it would be the wire that would burn not the applicance (I would have thought)
What ratings are the oven and hob?
What type of hob is it, induction or regular?
I put in a new double oven and induction hob and gave them a separate 6mmsq feed each as the each of them on full draw the same amount

dubtom

Recently changed my oven and hob, I was surprised to see the oven had a 2.5 feed, basically a plug, as did the hob which is gas. I had the 6 square already run so hooked up the oven with a connecter box.A sticker on the oven did say the rating was 2.5kw.

GreeBo

dubtom wrote:

Recently changed my oven and hob, I was surprised to see the oven had a 2.5 feed, basically a plug, as did the hob which is gas. I had the 6 square already run so hooked up the oven with a connecter box.A sticker on the oven did say the rating was 2.5kw.

A single oven can be ok with a plug, obviously depending on the rating, I wouldnt have thought a double would be ok.
Gas hobs are fine as the only electricity they use is to generate the spark...

eoghan.geraghty

Snaggerman, have you tried cooking on it for say 30/40 mins? It may be that as you are leaving it on with nothing to heat/cook, the heat generated has to dissipate somewhere.

knighted

GreeBo wrote:

A single oven can be ok with a plug, obviously depending on the rating, I wouldnt have thought a double would be ok.
Gas hobs are fine as the only electricity they use is to generate the spark...

no cooking appliance is ok with a plug here in ireland as if u plug into an irish socket chances are it runs thru the elcb unit and the standards are that a cooker should have its own current breaker independant of the elcb-(earth leakage issues )
if u have a plug socket specifically for ur cooker like other european coutries u can do it but i bet u dont

dont piss about with something u dont understand -get a sparks in -for a few extra euros it could actually save your life

GreeBo

knighted wrote:

no cooking appliance is ok with a plug here in ireland as if u plug into an irish socket chances are it runs thru the elcb unit and the standards are that a cooker should have its own current breaker independant of the elcb-(earth leakage issues )

interesting, so thats the same for a hob aswell?
What about fancy grilling microwaves?

knighted wrote:

if u have a plug socket specifically for ur cooker like other european coutries u can do it but i bet u dont

Many older houses do have this switched cooker isolator with a built in socket, my parents house for example.

knighted wrote:

dont piss about with something u dont understand

Dont understand != dont know Irish regulations

Dilbert75

OP did you try using the hob with the oven off? If so, and it didn't overheat, I'd suspect inadeqate ventilation around the oven. Just a thought...

dubtom

Snaggerman wrote:

Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone might have any insight into this problem.
I installed a new kitchen over the weekend and Monday night was fitting the new hob and oven. (I have had the kitchen completely re-wired due to a totally different layout from the original, and purchased all new appliances). Anyway, after hooking up the oven with 6x and looping 6mm flex to the hob, everything seemed to be operating fine. The oven reached the proper temp and burnt off the residual oils as its supposed to do, however the hob started to overheat (S.S body, raised hob type).
The steel got very hot to the touch and smoked excessively, all in about fifteen mins. Ok, maybe a faulty one methinks, so whipped it out and returned it to DID this morning. No probs they said, heres a replacement. Problem is, the replacement one does the exact same thing!
I've checked with the electrician who wired the kitchen and he says that the wireing is spot on and shouldn't be an issue. I'm wondering if maybe the 6mm flex is too light, even though the manual says it's sufficient? Maybe someone might be able to advise before I go trotting back to DID looking for another replacement,
Thanks in advance!

Just a thought, on my old setup, all electric, the hob was hooked to the 6 square and the oven wired to it. If you have wired the oven with 6 square and it's capacity is 2.5, could that be your problem.

10-10-20

Eh? Look, unless I'm reading you wrong (and correct me if I am), you can't overload a piece of equipment by supplying it with too thick a wire. The device will pull what-ever current is is rated for and no more. Heck, attach the device to a 40A breaker and a 10mm core wire... it will still pull out 800W or whatever it is designed to take and not 9200W!

truckey

are you sure you removed all the packaging before you turned it on.

knighted

GreeBo wrote:

Many older houses do have this switched cooker isolator with a built in socket, my parents house for example.

didnt mean to annoy u but ur parents house is fairly old and i bet it doesnt or didnt have an elcb or rccb fitted-my point was that there are so many variables that people shouldnt mess with electricity and especially not appliances that they dont understand -example-if its wired wrong it could spark or heat in the middle of the night and burn the house down i have seen it happen -it costs about 70 euros to have a hob and oven installed correctly and u cant put a price on piece of mind

FX Meister

GreeBo wrote:

Many older houses do have this switched cooker isolator with a built in socket, my parents house for example.

To add to the post above. This socket with the cooker isolator is fed from the same cable as the cooker. This cable is not wired from the RCD and all sockets must be on the RCD. That is why it is against the regs.

GreeBo

FX Meister wrote:

To add to the post above. This socket with the cooker isolator is fed from the same cable as the cooker. This cable is not wired from the RCD and all sockets must be on the RCD. That is why it is against the regs.

That makes sense to me, but is that not the opposite of what you are saying Knighted or am I picking you up wrongly?

Actually, just re-read it, are you saying its needs to have its own elcb?
Why would a gas hob or single oven for example need to have its own if its rated for a socket?

GreeBo

knighted wrote:

didnt mean to annoy u but ur parents house is fairly old and i bet it doesnt or didnt have an elcb or rccb fitted-my point was that there are so many variables that people shouldnt mess with electricity and especially not appliances that they dont understand -example-if its wired wrong it could spark or heat in the middle of the night and burn the house down i have seen it happen -it costs about 70 euros to have a hob and oven installed correctly and u cant put a price on piece of mind

No worries, though I would say that most houses are of their generation.

We replaced the fuseboard with elcb/rcd.
Whats different about a single oven versus a microwave/extractor for example?

knighted

electric appliances with elements eg grill or rings and oven elements actually have an earth leakage which while minute is too sensitive to run thru the current leakage detector or leakage to earth(the elcb) all sockets have to run thru this but if you notice ur lights dont -its all a safety thing so that is why my advice to people is always the same -

a grill element in a microwave can cause the same problems but these are rarely used -when using a microwave normally this doesnt apply as the waves come from the magnatron and it a sealed unit -

this doesnt apply to any other domestic appliance eg washing machine or diswasher -its only cookers and specifically caused by the heating elements -which is why some electricians cant get there head around it as they not trained in the internal workings of machines

Snaggerman

eoghan.geraghty wrote:

Snaggerman, have you tried cooking on it for say 30/40 mins? It may be that as you are leaving it on with nothing to heat/cook, the heat generated has to dissipate somewhere.

Spot on Eoghan, just tried it for half an hour with a pan of water, totally different result. Thanks for your help, and thanks to everyone else.:)

GreeBo

knighted wrote:

electric appliances with elements eg grill or rings and oven elements actually have an earth leakage which while minute is too sensitive to run thru the current leakage detector or leakage to earth(the elcb) all sockets have to run thru this but if you notice ur lights dont -its all a safety thing so that is why my advice to people is always the same -

Yeah, I get that but I didnt realise that some elements have a leakage...strange that it doesnt affect a kettle for example, I'll have to go look it up now

knighted

kettle uses a diff type of element just like ur immersion heater -diff principles

the leakage is so small but above that of the elcb 35ma in 35ms

Copper

no cooking appliance is ok with a plug here in ireland as if u plug into an irish socket chances are it runs thru the elcb unit and the standards are that a cooker should have its own current breaker independant of the elcb-(earth leakage issues )
if u have a plug socket specifically for ur cooker like other european coutries u can do it but i bet u dont

Theres nothing in the Wiring Rules that states cooking appliances can't be on the same RCD as any other circuit. If you wanted to you could stick a plugtop on a low power (i.e. <3kW) cooking appliance and plug it into a socket outlet protected by an RCD.

electric appliances with elements eg grill or rings and oven elements actually have an earth leakage which while minute is too sensitive to run thru the current leakage detector or leakage to earth(the elcb) all sockets have to run thru this but if you notice ur lights dont -its all a safety thing so that is why my advice to people is always the same -

a grill element in a microwave can cause the same problems but these are rarely used -when using a microwave normally this doesnt apply as the waves come from the magnatron and it a sealed unit -

All parts of an electrical installation have a natural earth leakage current, from cable and fittings to appliances. Most appliances manufactured to EN standards have an earth leakage of less than 0.75mA, microwaves .5mA, microwaves with grills <4.25mA and for example a 6kW oven will have an earth leakage of less than 4.5mA.

A domestic RCD has an earth leakage rating of 30mA, i.e. it is guaranteed to trip when 30mA of earth leakage current is detected. Any domestic oven manufactured to international standards can be used on an RCD without fear of nuisance tripping.

The reason its generally not on an RCD is its a fixed appliance same as light fittings, so it won't be moved around and unplugged etc, so its considered low risk.

this doesnt apply to any other domestic appliance eg washing machine or diswasher -its only cookers and specifically caused by the heating elements -which is why some electricians cant get there head around it as they not trained in the internal workings of machines

Most washing machines, dishwashers, kettles, ovens, immersions etc. have heating elements, and they all have an earth leakage current. Theres nothing special about cookers except that they might have five or six heating elements. Electricians in Ireland are trained on the internal wiring and construction of cookers, storage heaters, light fittings, immersions, motors etc.

DublinDilbert

Snaggerman wrote:

Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone might have any insight into this problem.
I installed a new kitchen over the weekend and Monday night was fitting the new hob and oven. (I have had the kitchen completely re-wired due to a totally different layout from the original, and purchased all new appliances). Anyway, after hooking up the oven with 6x and looping 6mm flex to the hob, everything seemed to be operating fine. The oven reached the proper temp and burnt off the residual oils as its supposed to do, however the hob started to overheat (S.S body, raised hob type).
The steel got very hot to the touch and smoked excessively, all in about fifteen mins. Ok, maybe a faulty one methinks, so whipped it out and returned it to DID this morning. No probs they said, heres a replacement. Problem is, the replacement one does the exact same thing!
I've checked with the electrician who wired the kitchen and he says that the wireing is spot on and shouldn't be an issue. I'm wondering if maybe the 6mm flex is too light, even though the manual says it's sufficient? Maybe someone might be able to advise before I go trotting back to DID looking for another replacement,
Thanks in advance!

Hi

The 6sq cable sounds fine for a Hob....

Is there any "link" options on the Hob? or is just a straight forward live/neutral & earth feed??

The last time i fitted a Hob, i was surprised that there was a few different swappable links on it which allowed voltage selection, i think it could even run off 2 phase power... I'm not sure if these sort of options are on all hobs, or just the high end ones..

Rgds.