Macbeth- What to study??

dan719

well my first choice is theoretical physics, but maths and english is number three and pure english is number four. We shall see where I end up, I love literature thoughl, so I defo want to keep in contact with it throughout my four(and hopefully even more) years of college!:D

analyse this

It seems that we have split into two camps: those who pity Macbeth and those who think he gets what he deserves.

Again, I reiterate the difference between sympathy and pity. I both pity Macbeth and also believe his downfall was an appropriate sentence for a truly evil man.

analyse this

dan719 wrote:

I'll see you in the literature society so!:D

I shall see you both there!:D

dan719

analyse this wrote:

I shall see you both there!:D

Good good. What course are you doing?

analyse this

Psychology!! Can't wait:D

adam_ccfc

md99 wrote:

It's okay, I would be pretty pissed off too if I was from Douglas...

Says the guy living in Waterford, the land that time forgot.:rolleyes:

SamHamilton

Again, I reiterate the difference between sympathy and pity. I both pity Macbeth and also believe his downfall was an appropriate sentence for a truly evil man.

To feel pity suggests that one feels sorry for Macbeth because of the sufferring he goes through. Sympathy is something totally different. To be sympathetic is to be sorry for someone who is unhappy etc. So you can't pity Macbeth and think his downfall was an appropriate sentence because you are both sorry for the fact that he suffers and condoning the sufferring!

Marshy

adam_ccfc wrote:

Says the guy living in Waterford, the land that time forgot.:rolleyes:

Gee this has developed into a pretty pathetic thread since I made my invaluable input earlier.

One group discussing college prospects while another bicker over where they live. When was the last mention of macbeth?

Apologies if I sound moderatory.

lilmizzme

Im too lazy to go back and quote, so Ill just give my lil rant here...

I don't agree Macbeth was evil from the start of the play, fair enough he cut some one from 'the nave to th'chops' but let's give him a little credit, he was killing a traitor to his country...anyone in his position, perhaps even the amazing Macduff would have done the same....I think Macbeth was just weak, he gave in so easily to his wife, the witches, his own ambition....I think he was, after all was said and sone, is human

I think this is why I feel both sympathy and pity for him, and why the audience can, in a way, relate to him...we are all flawed,and we have all had moments of weakness when we've given into our inner demons, or those around us, and done things we're ashamed of...granted, we didnt murder anyone (i hope) but there is that human element of Macbeth that makes him worthy of some pity

As for Lady Macbeth...what a legend!!Speaking from a female perspective, I admire her so much, her loyalty, her detemination, her cunning, her strength....Shakespere's genius really comes through in Lady McB...I'd love a question on her in June...

Rant over...:D

SamHamilton

Well though he brutally murders so many, the existence of his poetic self ie. "Out, Out..." and the regret he expresses at what he's done towards the end, "My soul is too much charged..." indicates hes not just a mere villain in my view. There is a sense of wasted potential and although we are rightly horrified by Macbeths tyrannical rule theres an element of sympathy I think due to his rapid descent into tyranny despite the potential for good that surfaces occasionally.

Gee this has developed into a pretty pathetic thread since I made my invaluable input earlier.

I'd hardly call the above input invaluable. Seems to me that you basically rehashed what is stated in almost every (mediocre) essay on Macbeth.

the existence of his poetic self...indicates hes not just a mere villain

What? So villains must be stupid? Hardly. This isn't a silly fantasy book.

although we are rightly horrified by Macbeths tyrannical rule theres an element of sympathy I think due to his rapid descent into tyranny despite the potential for good that surfaces occasionally

Potential for good? Macbeth's 'touching' speeches come out of cowardice and regret. He regrets the actions he has taken only because of their failure to secure his safety, not because of their malignity. Also, Macbeth's "out, out..." speech shows only Macbeth's selfish nature, not his potential for good. He is wallowing in self-pity. He is self-obsessed and self absorbed.

I don't agree Macbeth was evil from the start of the play, fair enough he cut some one from 'the nave to th'chops' but let's give him a little credit, he was killing a traitor to his country...anyone in his position, perhaps even the amazing Macduff would have done the same

When I say that Macbeth was evil from the start I'm not referring to this episode. I'm referring to the fact that he "beggar'd (children)" and "bow'd (people) to the grave" - Act 3 Scene 1. He attributes these acts to Banquo. They must take place before the start of the play. I assume that Macbeth must be a landlord of some sort. While it is not demonic behaviour, it is certainly a form of evil.

analyse this

To Dan719 and SamHamilton:

What a perfect trio!! An analyst, a logician and a philosopher! Could it get any better?

SamHamilton

To Dan719 and SamHamilton:

What a perfect trio!! An analyst, a logician and a philosopher! Could it get any better?

Who's who?:D If I need ask!

JSK 252

analyse this wrote:

Oh god I hate when people start getting offended on the internet!! Especially over such menial things! Choose your battles dude! Wait until you actually have something to moan about! Your constant bickering and moaning is becoming very arduous to ignore!

But it was something to moan about. I dont waste my time on forums unless I think my point is valid and in this case I was defending a fellow Corkonian. What ever happened to community spirit?

Your constant bickering and moaning is becoming very arduous to ignore![/QUOTE]

What constant bickering?

mateo

Oh God, this thread makes me want to die!

md99

lol, it's so good...

Rozabeez

I'm impressed, some people have really expressed their intelligence, we've debating without having a heated argument. Applause for us, although my contribution hasn't been too great

eimear89

Personally I feel no sympathy for Macbeth, but when I'm writing in the exam I'll say I do because it's just easier to write about it. Macbeth is the tragic hero, who has all the qualities of a good man except for one fatal flaw - his ambition.
Even though he is presented from the outset as a good man, a valiant gentleman, he is also shown as a fearless warrior and is no stranger to acts of brutality "till he unseam'd him from the nave to the chaps..."
I don't think it's fair to completely blame Lady Macbeth for Duncan's murder. After all Macbeth has free will. He could have chosen not to murder Duncan. For all of Lady Macbeth's bravado, when it came to the crunch she could not murder Duncan.
I think you have to say that you feel sorry for both Macbeth and Lady Macbeth because after Duncan's murder they go into a psychological meltdown.
By the way did anyone watch Roman Polanski's Macbeth. I thought it was the weirdest thing ever- they couldn't act at all!

Naikon

I hate Macbeth.

brianthebard

Naikon wrote:

I hate Macbeth.

Its not that bad, you can read it in one night. What problems are you with it?

SamHamilton

By the way did anyone watch Roman Polanski's Macbeth. I thought it was the weirdest thing ever- they couldn't act at all!

Oh God! It was just awful! I suffered through the first hour thinking - "this could be a lot worse, well a little worse!" - and then it just went full throttle into a downward spiral into the type of film that would be seen in the top 10 of worst films ever! Okay maybe that's a bit harsh.:p

I took one useful thing from the film though. Polanski portrays Lady Macbeth and Macbeth as very young and this interpretation makes it easier to see why they did what they did. Lady Macbeth, because of her youth and immaturity, gets so excited at the prospect of Macbeth that she launches into a plan to secure the throne. Makes it seems like she does it more out of youthful excitement than out of blinding love which is how I feel about the play.

Naikon

Well hating it is a little strong I guess, its just the questions on kingship, modern day relevance etc throw me off a bit.
Its my own fault though as its the one area of English I didnt study as much as I should have:o

SamHamilton

I hate Macbeth.

If you're having trouble with it I can give you a few tips.

1. Know everything about Macbeth and have some nice quotes.
2. Know a good bit about the witches. Know that their speech is equivocal and have one or two quotes.
3. Know the general outline of the plot.
4. Know a bit about every other character: know who contrasts with them etc.

Then it doesn't matter what question you're asked, you're pretty much covered. If you get a question on Kingship for example which a lot of people are freaking about, just contrast Macbeth with Duncan and there's the bulk of your answer. Throw in a few quotes about the country under Macbeth's rule - "the country sinks beneath the yolk" etc - and that's most of the question done. And talk about Macbeth's ambition to gain the "golden round" and you're finished.
The theme of deception: Macbeth and the witches
Evil: Macbeth and the witches
etc.

The way I see it is if you get a theme you find difficult to answer on, just remember that most themes, if not all, are explored through the characters. So, pick a character you're confident with and you should be fine. More than fine!

That should cover you with almost any question.

Only ones that are dodgy are the questions on imagery but we have 3 weeks. Plenty time to learn some quotes about "thunder, lightning (and) rain" and its significance!:D

analyse this

JSK 252 wrote:

Your constant bickering and moaning is becoming very arduous to ignore!

What constant bickering?

Apologies. I meant YOU as in the general sense.

brianthebard

Naikon wrote:

Well hating it is a little strong I guess, its just the questions on kingship, modern day relevance etc throw me off a bit.
Its my own fault though as its the one area of English I didnt study as much as I should have:o

There's no need to approach the kingship issue in a literal way, "when all's said and done its just a throne"- the point is the search for power and the inevitable corruption that search causes. Arguably this aspect of Macbeth is more valid than ever since it applies to people's everyday lives more, people looking for promotions, politics, etc. One could examine the celebrity culture of today and see what comparisons you could make with that and Macbeth's desire to be king. Those are just a few thoughts off the top of my head. (I'm trying to avoid studying for my finals )

md99

SamHamilton wrote:

Oh God! It was just awful! I suffered through the first hour thinking - "this could be a lot worse, well a little worse!" - and then it just went full throttle into a downward spiral into the type of film that would be seen in the top 10 of worst films ever! Okay maybe that's a bit harsh.:p

No it's not (a bit harsh), it's understating things. The film is a crime against Shakespeare, and it's a Playboy Production (literally... check out the start of the trailer) to boot...

here's a few clips...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgAdrPCg3wo (trailer... look at the Playboy start)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNIa17Z5Nkk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfsxzgHsGOI (is this a dagger I see before me??...they actually used a special effects dagger, watch where he tries to grab it)

analyse this

Actually kingship, as brianthebard has stated, is, in fact, a very 'do-able' question. I wouldn't confine myself to the kingship theme alone. Because of the broadness (is that a word?) of the theme it allows you to encompass several other themes into your answer that relate to the question. For example, when answering a question on kingship, I not only discussed the various and contrasting characteristics of kingship in the play, I also discussed the themes of greed, the 'vaulting ambition' of man, desire and power. Do not be intimidated by such questions. If you just take your time and think about what you are going to discuss, instead of just jumping straight into your answer, you can produce a very good response

md99

lest I come off the wrong way, the film is genuinely bad, mainly for a few reasons...

1) the (usually retired porn star) actors are dire

2) Macduffs part is tiny, they cut out loads of it

3) the Duncan murder scene is atrocious... They show it for one thing, he goes into Duncans room, Duncan wakes up which is terribly cheesy and Macbeth stabs him 9 times, THEN sticks the dagger in his throat when hes on the ground.......

4) the banquet scene.. they SHOW Banquos ghost, do they leave anything to the imagination anymore???

5) the ridiculous gore and profanity (god i sound old) at any possible oppurtunity... usually i love this in movies, but i can honestly say this film takes it beyond too far..... eg, when they kill Seyton, Banquo (axe to the head???) and the scene with Macuffs family, Polanski adds rape to it which was really uncalled for...

Polanski made the film soon after his family were murdered by the Mansons, he was in a very disturbed state of mind.

SamHamilton

As for the whole - how is the play relevent in the 21st century - questions, again you don't have to go - "oh my god I never did a sample question on this" - just think, okay I know Macbeth's character really well and I'll be damned if you leaving cert setters don't let me use him in my answer!:D

I'd write how "Macbeth" is a play dealing with integral elements of human nature that people still hold today, i.e. ambition, lust for power, I'd even stretch to including evil if I was stuck.

Plus you could go on a rant about how "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" or even better - since I LOVE Steinbeck - how "fear corrupts...perhaps the fear of a loss of power" which is, afterall, what makes Macbeth continue with his violent reign. And then you could link this with aule Bertie:D ! Nah, Bertie's awesome.:D

JSK 252

analyse this wrote:

Apologies. I meant YOU as in the general sense.

No problem my friend. I do get excited though when arguments occur:D . I love that ****.

SamHamilton

lest I come off the wrong way, the film is genuinely bad, mainly for a few reasons...

It was really bad, wasn't it? Remember when, for what reason I cannot fathom, the witch turns round to Macbeth, lifts up her skirt and wails at him! How odd!

Half of the time it seems like the actors don't know what they are saying and their rhythm is all off. It was the exact same case when I went to see (a Morwax production?) "Macbeth" in the theatre in Galway. The actors didn't have a clue what they were saying and just threw out lines, expressionless.

I also hate the music. Enough said.