When BMW motors go bad - advice needed

MojoMaker

Nasty situation - my '97 523i was just in with Maxwell Motors having a small (or so I thought) overheating problem diagnosed and the end result of the testing process is a cracked engine block - quoting €4900 + VAT + labour to fit new engine unit

Car is only worth €6k tops so the repair would outvalue the car :mad:

Question to you guys: That's the official party line from BMW, anyone got any creative solutions that could patch up the problem without requiring a new block? As luck would have it I was getting what I thought was a water pump replaced in order to trade on for my new car. This has thrown an obvious spanner in the works as right now it's untradeable. I don't want to spend 7k fitting it out :eek:

Car has 118k mileage but it had the original engine replaced under warranty (Nikasil issue) in 2000 at 60k miles so the current engine only has 58k on the clock - or so the service book states.

Desperate bad luck or do I have a light at the end of the tunnel maybe? Or failing that and it's a disposal situation I'm looking at, does anyone know a good path to go down to claw back some of the inherent value of the car as rolling stock? (The condition of the car is excellent and has all the toys - would be a disgrace to scrap it).

Worried in Dublin.

Glanza V

A cracked block is a cracked block. There is no way of repairing it. the only option is to replace it. Your best bet is to try and pick up an engine from a crashed BMW. But its going to cost alot. Lets say you buy the engine for 1k (cant see that happining though), its going to cost another 1 - 2 from a garage to fit it nless you are handy at engines yourself.

But in honesty, a new engine is needed.

BarryM3

Source a second hand engine and swap it over...

Cost for swapping the engine wont be that dear, it should be easily possible to do in a single day especially if the donor engine comes with all the ancillaries (alternator, water pump etc)

You can't fix a cracked block though, well at least not properly!!

Glanza V

Anther option is to break the car for parts or sell it as is for very litte money

maidhc

Garage the car, and watch out for an engine. One will turn up for handy money eventually.

TommyT

Try Ralph Jess on 04897561248, he should have an engine, if not try Border Motor Works on 04871382504.
I would hope to pick an engine up for 1000 euro, you just want something that is going to get you going until you get shot of it.

Esel

TommyT wrote:

Try Ralph Jess on 04897561248, he should have an engine, if not try Border Motor Works on 04871382504.
I would hope to pick an engine up for 1000 euro, you just want something that is going to get you going until you get shot of it.

Change that 048 prefix to 028 if calling from 26 counties - cheaper.

MojoMaker

Thanks lads. I guess I knew a replacement engine, either new or otherwise, was required. I rang around a few places and they basically said the same thing - a cracked block is a cracked block. Had it been just the head that would have been a lower cost, but touching €2k anyway.

Tommy, what's Ralph's gig, is he a breaker?

Wouldn't know where to start in Dublin for sourcing a replacement engine - but I think you're right, a swap over could be the most cost effective option. The shame about all this is that car is in showroom nick otherwise - Murphy's law I guess.

Any other tips keep 'em coming, especially keen to hear about similar stories/resolutions from other owners past/present.

TommyT

esel wrote:

Change that 048 prefix to 028 if calling from 26 counties - cheaper.

Leave the 048 prefix as it is, if you use 028 from the 26 Counties you will end up calling someone in Cork. 048 is the prefix for the 6 Counties.

TommyT

MojoMaker wrote:

Tommy, what's Ralph's gig, is he a breaker?
QUOTE]

Both those numbers are BMW breakers in the North.

Esel

TommyT wrote:

Leave the 048 prefix as it is, if you use 028 from the 26 Counties you will end up calling someone in Cork. 048 is the prefix for the 6 Counties.

Soz, my mistake then.

ciarsd

Sorry to hear of your car troubles complete pain in the arse. Have they said how it could've happened or how it came about?

Maybe fabdirect can source something? I know its quite popular with some of the BMW lads.

http://www.fabdirect.com/

kdevitt

Try Fab direct as ciarsd suggested. They'll give a guarantee on the engine, shipping is £100 from what I recall for an engine.

MojoMaker

No reason for it happening was suggested, but they did remark it was very unusual for such a young engine to have developed this problem (58k mls).

I have my suspicions that the previous owner was informed this problem existed and was only going to get worse and he immediately traded it last year. The problem manifested itself from about January onwards in my hands and I went through all the usual lines of enquiry for overheating issues - replaced viscous fan coupling, thermostat & housing, water pump. I also had the crank position sensor replaced recently for another rough-running issue and was just getting enjoying life with a completely fixed engine...or so I thought. During my ownership the crack obviously got worse, to the point where the car overheats on virtually every trip.

I suppose I can't recommend enough the importance of having a prospective purchase thoroughly checked out beforehand - even to the point of bringing it to a main dealer and asking for certain tests to be run. Seems a shame to be spending the guts of 10k and have it disappear down the drain.

BostonB

I think you'd have to consider the least loss is getting the engine done independently and running the car for a couple of years.

Andrewf20

MojoMaker wrote:

Nasty situation - my '97 523i was just in with Maxwell Motors having a small (or so I thought) overheating problem diagnosed and the end result of the testing process is a cracked engine block - quoting €4900 + VAT + labour to fit new engine unit .

What are the chances of this thread appearing, baring in mind that my 323i (same M52 engine) has shown up an overheating problem today as well. When stopped, it goes into the red. This combined with a rough idle, suggests a dodgy head gasket. Im p*ssed off. It has a new engine block put in in 2001 (Nikasil issue) and new coolant, water pump and thermostat last year. I just hope I dont have a cracked cylinder hear too.

For labour, Id turn to Robert Furley (BMW specialist) just outside Kells. Very reasonable, honest and very experienced. PM me if you need his details.

MojoMaker

I wish it was just the head, but no the crack is in the cylinder liner in the actual block. Heads can be got a lot cheaper, but still a large expense to bear. Have you brought yours anywhere to have it properly checked? Maxwell's now charge €150+VAT for service work, it's gone up a fair bit since my first BMW

Edit - if your overheating only happens when stopped or when moving in very slow traffic it might be the considerably cheaper problem of a clapped out viscous fan coupling. I had mine replaced preventatively (would you look at the irony in that word alone) but of course made feck all difference cos it wasn't the problem.

Andrewf20

Thanks for that. I was just checking the fan coupling and indeed the fan is very easy to stop. I even did it from 700rpm to zero with my own fingers, once I did with with the wallet first. Also I am showing no signs of coolant leakage into the oil (Coolant & oil levels stable, no whiting of oil etc). I now reckon its this, as I have found in the past that the fan cover has jammed the fan on a few occasions likely to be causing damaging to the coupling.

I rang Robert Furley about it as well to discuss but I havent brought it anywhere yet as I only diagnosed the problem this evening. My brother has a 523i fan in his shed so I will swap that tomorrow.

Real sorry about the news with the car. But I had some bills myself over the last 2 years: New gearbox, clutch, wheel bearing, bushings, Cat (1100yoyos!), back box, rear handbrake shoes, EBC pads, 4 discs and now rear brake lines are corroding, so need to do that too. Time to leave Mondello alone methinks.

If I was you, I probably look to the local breakers for a late 1997, 1998 engine block (use realoem.com to validate part numbers to see if the engine block is suitable to fit your car. All you need is you VIN number for that website), and see if Robert will do the work. I found Kilcock quite extensive. They had a loads of engines lying around. At the time, I literally went thru the yellow pages, ringing loads of breakers and enquiring over the phone it they had the parts. Trainers up the north are apparently quite extensive as well. I rang Joe Duffy about a new gearbox - 2450euro excl labour, so I didnt do thru them. In the end, I got the gearbox in Kilcock for 300yoyos (no warranty, so risky), and Robert replaced it including a new clutch I bought in Otto for 300 euros labour.

Andrewf20

One more thing, If you do decide to start phoning breakers, remember to ask if they have E36 323i, 325i, 328i, E39 523i, 525i, 528i blocks because as far as im aware, they should be the same (bigger engines gain power from the same bore, just larger strokes). Research thru realoem.com to compare you car to others to double check Im right on this. I did this and I now have a 320i gearbox in the 323i.

Attached is a link of the engine part number details for a 523i I selected from Jan 1997 for example:
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=DD32&mospid=47539&btnr=11_1962&hg=11&fg=05

unkel

Andrewf20 and MojoMaker, I take it that both your cars are UK imports because of the Nikasil? Those are some unreal issues and even more unreal figures to get you sorted

Post here and here as well to get more expert advice

Andrewf20

Cheers for that Unkel. If the fan coupling aint the problem, Ill be posting a few more questions. I should know by tomorrow if I get a chance to fit the different fan.

As far as Im aware, the car was in Ireland from day 1. Some of the work was preventitve maintenance (Clutch,water pump, coolant, discs, brake fluid etc). Car is old, so I was expecting a few bills!

unkel

Andrewf20 wrote:

As far as Im aware, the car was in Ireland from day 1

I think you can check that on your vehicle licensing certificate? I'd be surprised if it an originally Irish car that was always driven here

MojoMaker

Mine was a UK import alright. Brought into ireland in early 2000 and within months the engine was replaced f.o.c by Murphy & Gunn for the Nikasil problem.

The Kilcock crowd you mention Andrew, do they have a website? What's the full name of the outfit?

Andrewf20

Heres all the details I have:

Kilcock Car Dismantlers,
Laragh,
Kilcock,
Co Kildare.
(01)6285671

See more places in Ireland here:
http://www.goldenpages.ie/search/Car_Dismantlers.html
Dublin region:
http://www.goldenpages.ie/search/dublin/Car_Dismantlers.html

You'll probably find some stuff in a bad way, but you might be lucky. You wont get a warranty, so be careful. I rang alot of places, and they were able to tell me over the phone it they had the parts there, so that should save you some driving. Fingers crossed. If you do find a block, check the part number as it should be stamped into the metal somewhere on the block, and compare to you own damaged one.

MercMad

I think both of you shouldm talk to Alan Carroll of AC Cars in Dublin. He is a sound guy, an independent BMW expert, drives an E39, and you wont find a more honest and reasonable guy. he's seen it all before !

Sorry.....dont have number for him at hand !

Good luck.

ciarsd

MercMad wrote:

I think both of you shouldm talk to Alan Carroll of AC Cars in Dublin. He is a sound guy, an independent BMW expert, drives an E39, and you wont find a more honest and reasonable guy. he's seen it all before !

Sorry.....dont have number for him at hand !

Good luck.

Sound knowledgeable chap

Bloomfield Road, SCR, Dublin 8 - Phone :+353 (01) 453 1433

Borzoi

MojoMaker wrote:

Nasty situation - my '97 523i was just in with Maxwell Motors having a small (or so I thought) overheating problem diagnosed and the end result of the testing process is a cracked engine block - quoting €4900 + VAT + labour to fit new engine unit
.

Funnily enogh a former colleague of mine had a similar problem last year - newer engine though and lowish 40-50K mileage. Bought his 320 Coupe about 2 years ago, when it ws 3 years old. Serviced it in the main dealer where he'd bough it. About 18months into his ownership, they suspect the block is cracked - and want €1500 to pull the engine out to check, €5k to replace it then. He checks around, a friend is in the trade, apparently his engine is far from the first. So he digs his heals in with the dealer and BMW Irl. In the end, he gets a new engine, and the bill is split 3 ways between himself, the dealer & BMW

smash

you could bid on this... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-523-I-SE-SALOON-1998-S-ONLY-74-000-MLS-LEATHER-TRIM_W0QQitemZ300109609452QQihZ020QQcategoryZ9837QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

take the engine and some more extras and break the rest for parts to get some money back.

michaelanthony

try www.partsgateway.co.uk . Its a broker for a few breakers yards and will get you a few prices including delivery in a few minutes.

Eoin

MercMad wrote:

I think both of you shouldm talk to Alan Carroll of AC Cars in Dublin. He is a sound guy, an independent BMW expert, drives an E39, and you wont find a more honest and reasonable guy. he's seen it all before !

Sorry.....dont have number for him at hand !

Good luck.

Will vouch for him also. (OT: Don't think he drives an e39 regularly though, pretty sure it's a massive audi land yacht)

www.accarsales.com

MojoMaker

Thanks lads. I've been on to FAB and they quote me a replacement engine for £795+VAT+shipping. Just waiting on a shipping quote from the UK, and there are a number of independent specialists operating around the €60ph mark for the labour involved (approx 8 hours). If I can do it for around 2500 I might take that hit. A lot better than the 7k quote from the main dealer here.

Interesting angle on the main dealer goodwill gesture though. The engine was replaced by M&G in Dublin 7 years and 58k ago so I wouldn't expect any issues with it at that mileage, plus I have replaced the water pump, thermostat & housing, viscous fan, crank position sensor, and coolant temp sensor in the last 3 months - so a lot of expense has gone into the ancilliaries around the engine bay which I could recoup by a block swap. Sad to spend a grand and have this hit me though...

Still a replacement lump should be good for quite a few years of worry-free motoring and it might be worth hanging on to it for another 18 months after in that case.