Valdanos rant at Rafa/Jose

KdjaCL

Valdano attacks Prem duo

Jorge Valdano has slammed Jose Mourinho and Rafa Benitez saying that their "cynicism" is founded upon both mens' failure to find success as players.

The former Real Madrid player, coach and sporting director fiercely criticised the Chelsea and Liverpool managers following the uninspiring Champions League semi-final tie between the English clubs.

"Football is made up of subjective feeling, of suggestion - and, in that, Anfield is unbeatable," wrote Valdano in Spanish daily Marca.

"Put a **** hanging from a stick in the middle of this passionate, crazy stadium and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art.
It's not: it's a **** hanging from a stick."

"Chelsea and Liverpool are the clearest, most exaggerated example of the way football is going: very intense, very collective, very tactical, very physical, and very direct.

"But, a short pass? No. A feint? No. A change of pace? No. A one-two? A nutmeg? A backheel? Don't be ridiculous. None of that.

"The extreme control and seriousness with which both teams played the semi-final neutralised any creative licence, any moments of exquisite skill," continued the Argentine's diatribe.

Despite his father's status in the game as a former Portugal goalkeeper, Mourinho never played professionally and instead focused his sights on a coaching future.

Benitez also only achieved success by working his way up the coaching structure, having failed to make an appearance in the Primera Liga.

Valdano believes that has led to a degree of cynicism as managers.

"The lives of Mourinho and Benitez have crossed in a world that is ever more scrutinised and exposed by the media, which is why they look at each other with such distrust," Valdano continued.

"But they have two things in common: a previously denied, hitherto unsatisfied hunger for glory, and a desire to have everything under control.

"Both of those things stem from one key factor: neither Mourinho nor Benitez made it as a player. That has made them channel all their vanity into coaching.

"Those who did not have the talent to make it as players do not believe in the talent of players, they do not believe in the ability to improvise in order to win football matches.

"In short, Benitez and Mourinho are exactly the kind of coaches that Benitez and Mourinho would have needed to have made it as players."

Makes some good points but trying to get both as manager kinda moots his point.


kdjac

super_furry

A bitter rant from a jealous man connected to a state-sponsored team which has spectacularly under-achieved despite the obscene amounts of cash thrown at them. Next.

Chucky the tree

Fergie was a world class player wasnt he?

:rolleyes:

leninbenjamin

its an interesting theory alright. he could well be onto something... although when they mentioned this in another thread someone pointed out to Wenger who never made it as a player but his team plays some of the most attractive football (or attempts to these days more like).

I think control though plays a huge part of it, both Benitez and Mourinho seem to be utter control freaks (much more so than Ferguson and Wenger at times it seems). you can exert a much greater level of control and consistency over the defensive organisation, positioning of the players, get the fitness levels up, and generally enforce the workmanship aspect of the game, whereas relying on genius, well it can be tempermental and sometimes inconsistent, kinda like Ronaldo and Henry.

Chardee MacDennis

"But, a short pass? No. A feint? No. A change of pace? No. A one-two? A nutmeg? A backheel? Don't be ridiculous. None of that.

Pure and utter crap. For example: the first 25 minutes against chelsea was all about Liverpools passing skill. Also most of these things player like Garcia, Gerrard, Robben, Drogba and Cole do in nearly every match.

"Those who did not have the talent to make it as players do not believe in the talent of players, they do not believe in the ability to improvise in order to win football matches.

Exactly the opposite of what most managers seem to think - i have seen quotes but can't be bothered to search. But i have seen manager say those who were solid players with not much skill prefer the skillful players and build their team around them, while the managers who were skillful players build there team around the tough and solid type players.

This guy sounds like he is talking pure B$.

EDIT: Also one league win in 3 seasons with Real, hardly a pedigree manger himself.

Mr Alan

this guy is talking crap.
can only comment about liverpool because they are the only team i watch week in week out but although they do have games thats are less than exilerating (what team doesn't) they also can play beautiful football. The passes some of the players can make (Gerrard, Alonso) are as extraordinary as any piece of skill (showboating) ya might see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US7eiFGiCG4

Long ball boring stuff or something special? You decide! (all one game as well)

PHB

I'd agree with him about his first comments, god awful football, but in terms of the second, Wenger was a **** player too

Zapp Brannigan

millersangel wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US7eiFGiCG4

Long ball boring stuff or something special? You decide! (all one game as well)

Watching that vid makes it glaringly obvious how poor Alonso has been this season

Mr Alan

Slurms wrote:

Watching that vid makes it glaringly obvious how poor Alonso has been this season

I wouldnt say he was that poor, just hasn't been able to capture his previous brilliant form. but ya know what they say, class is permanent, form is temporary.

heres hoping he can get it together (fingers crossed)

KdjaCL

PHB wrote:

I'd agree with him about his first comments, god awful football, but in terms of the second, Wenger was a **** player too

I think he is focusingg on the ****e football they play so got Rafa/Jose rather than Wenger.

He is spot on tho only Pool/ Chelsea fans would agree that **** on a stick is good football when its winning football. Whereas any other teams fans are nodding and thinking "spot on "

Valdano was a decent player and won the league with Real.


kdjac

Chucky the tree

A pats fan slating another team for playing **** football? Gimme a break.

el rabitos

KdjaCL wrote:

I think he is focusingg on the ****e football they play so got Rafa/Jose rather than Wenger.

He is spot on tho only Pool/ Chelsea fans would agree that **** on a stick is good football when its winning football. Whereas any other teams fans are nodding and thinking "spot on "

Valdano was a decent player and won the league with Real.


kdjac

well if anyone knows what **** on a stick football is all about, its "patselona's" and the eircom leagues number one fan himself

my monitor melts with the irony

PiE

Chucky the tree wrote:

An EL fan slating another team for playing **** football? Gimme a break.

Fixed.

Raskolnikov

millersangel wrote:

I wouldnt say he was that poor, just hasn't been able to capture his previous brilliant form. but ya know what they say, class is permanent, form is temporary.

heres hoping he can get it together (fingers crossed)

I've noticed in a lot of Liverpool matches that I've watch, that Alonso is getting bypassed far too much. Instead of him crossing the ball from the back, Agger simply hoofs it up the field.

KdjaCL

el rabitos wrote:

well if anyone knows what **** on a stick football is all about, its "patselona's" and the eircom leagues number one fan himself

my monitor melts with the irony

LOL Crouch wouldnt sign for us sadly his neck creaked from looking down all the time.

I am shocked Pool fans are annoyed at Valdanos rant really i am, like seriously i cannot believe that pool fans the epitome of total football are anooyed at Valdanos rant....mad it is mad!!!!!

kdjac

Chucky the tree

KdjaCL wrote:

LOL Crouch wouldnt sign for us sadly his neck creaked from looking down all the time.

I am shocked Pool fans are annoyed at Valdanos rant really i am, like seriously i cannot believe that pool fans the epitome of total football are anooyed at Valdanos rant....mad it is mad!!!!!

kdjac

What liverpool fan has said we are the epitome of total football? Feel free to quote it and show me.

Its his hole "Only ex-players can produce attractive football" that is the problem, complete bull****.

el rabitos

KdjaCL wrote:

LOL Crouch wouldnt sign for us sadly his neck creaked from looking down all the time.

I am shocked Pool fans are annoyed at Valdanos rant really i am, like seriously i cannot believe that pool fans the epitome of total football are anooyed at Valdanos rant....mad it is mad!!!!!

kdjac

/shrug.

cant say i gave much thought to his comment. thought yours was a joke though.

whats with the crouch slagging? he offend you?

KdjaCL

/shocked

Valdano trolls every pool/che fan and it works. When i seen that earlier i did giggle at the response the typical pool fan would have on here.

Does Crouch thrive on the long pass or the long ball ?

kdjac

KdjaCL

Chucky the tree wrote:

Its his hole "Only ex-players can produce attractive football" that is the problem, complete bull****.

So umm prove him wrong? I cant think of any manager who didnt play football yet got a side to play decent attacking football.


kdjac

leninbenjamin

KdjaCL wrote:

/shocked

Does Crouch thrive on the long pass or the long ball ?

kdjac

actually he's probably best with the ball on the ground.

Chucky the tree

KdjaCL wrote:

So umm prove him wrong? I cant think of any manager who didnt play football yet got a side to play decent attacking football.


kdjac

Whats you idea of playing football? Wenger?

LostinBlanch

C'mon it was a good metaphor! [where's the hold your nose smiley?] Also a bit too close to the bone for some.

Much more of Maureen and Benitez's take on George Graham football and then we'll start to see ads about jogo funcional rather than jogo bonito. Can't see Nike et al going for it though.

WhiteWashMan

leninbenjamin wrote:

actually he's probably best with the ball on the ground.

its got to be said, he has great ability with one touch flick ons. its only when he has to touch the ball a second time he starts gvetting that awkward look about him, but he still usually manages to do something with it.

KdjaCL

Chucky the tree wrote:

Whats you idea of playing football? Wenger?

Valdano said it i just agreed with it, Pool and Che play **** but winning football.

Wasnt Wenger a PROFESSIONAL footballer at some stage rather than a UCD type player for schools?

Still dont get your point.



kdjac

Chucky the tree

KdjaCL wrote:

Valdano said it i just agreed with it, Pool and Che play **** but winning football.

Wasnt Wenger a PROFESSIONAL footballer at some stage rather than a UCD type player for schools?

Still dont get your point.



kdjac

3 appearance, a dazzling career indead.


I thought my point was fairly obvious. You dont need to be a proffesional footballer to manage an attractive team that plays attractive football.

_blank_

PiE wrote:

Fixed.

Troll tbh.

Why come into a thread like this only to slate the eL?

So, your level of expectation might be stuck in the cash-rich Premier/La Liga/Serie A leagues, that doesn't give you the right to slate the people who go week-in week-out to actually support their local leagues.

Comparing the likes of the above mentioned leagues and the eL is an excercise in idiocy.

We all know the players at the level of the top leagues in Europe are better than that found in the eL, who can question that? Not me for sure, but some people expexct the absolute impossible when it comes to the eL. There is no money in it, and if people would come to games there would be more. And it would get better, but people expecting Premiership level football at eLoI grounds are delusional.

And to take a cheap shot like that is pure ignorance.

KdjaCL

Chucky the tree wrote:

3 appearance, a dazzling career indead.


I thought my point was fairly obvious. You dont need to be a proffesional footballer to manage an attractive team that plays attractive football.

So name one manager who wasnt a pro that manages a team that plays attractive football. Valdano is spot on tbh and the best way to summarise it is if Zidane played for either club what position would he play ? He has only one position but well its fairly obvious why it wouldnt work at certain clubs.


EDIT/// wtf do you think Rafa and jose play attractive football with pool and che?



kdjac

KdjaCL

seansouth wrote:

Troll tbh.



Comparing the likes of the above mentioned leagues and the eL is an excercise in idiocy.

I take it as complete retardedness but from a pool fan when their total fooballesqueness is questioned by a World Cup winner its expected, wouldnt get too worked up about it really.


kdjac

Chardee MacDennis

i dont understand why the media take what a world cup winner has to say as bible?

i would listen to mourinho, benitez, wenger, [put any other prem manager here] over say Jack Charlton, Tardelli, Voller, etc...

el rabitos

seansouth wrote:

And to take a cheap shot like that is pure ignorance.

and taking a shot at the 22+ players and the managers involved in that match is the mark of a intelligence?

_blank_

el rabitos wrote:

and taking a shot at the 22+ players and the managers involved in that match is the mark of a intelligence?

I was saying nothing of the Spanish man.

To think or imply I was, just to start an argument, is a mark of idiocy.

I wasn't having a go at your beloved English team tbh. Your paranoia amazes me.

PiE

Quick! Alert the admins; somebody said something bad about the EL!

Touchy.

The Muppet

seansouth wrote:

Troll tbh.

Why come into a thread like this only to slate the eL?

So, your level of expectation might be stuck in the cash-rich Premier/La Liga/Serie A leagues, that doesn't give you the right to slate the people who go week-in week-out to actually support their local leagues.

Comparing the likes of the above mentioned leagues and the eL is an excercise in idiocy.

..........................................................
And to take a cheap shot like that is pure ignorance.

But isn't that the standard tactic deplyod by the majority of Liverpool fan's. Were when anyone posts something they don't agree with they go on the attack insted of debating the issue. It took a whole 3 posts for United to sarcastically mentioned in this thread. I fully aggre with your summing up of situation.

On topic

I agree with the article . In their hayday Liverpool played fantastic passing football, Their former players must cringe when they see the crap the team usually produces these days. United have just shown you can still play attractive football and be successful so ther is really no need for all the boring negative stuff.

el rabitos

seansouth wrote:

I was saying nothing of the Spanish man.

To think or imply I was, just to start an argument, is a mark of idiocy.

I wasn't having a go at your beloved English team tbh. Your paranoia amazes me.

eh? i didnt imply that you said anything. i raised a question and you for the second time in two posts used the word "idiocy"? seem to be getting a little touchy and defencive there or something.

The Muppet wrote:

But isn't that the standard tactic deplyod by the majority of Liverpool fan's.

cry me a river

Draupnir

Valdano had a lot of interesting points to make and I dont think anyone can actually disagree with him that neither Liverpool or Chelsea play the most attractive football on the planet!

This has been characterised by both sides playing 4 central midfielders a lot this time, with Liverpool passing off Zenden on occassion as a winger. But either way, there isn't an abundance of entertainment on show from either team until Jose plays a fit Joe Cole or Robben.

For Chelsea, its not a surprise, they are just trying to dominate and win games, entertainment isn't their priority or else they wouldnt have hired Mourinho, who has never had a team that has played any kind of fluid passing game.

With Liverpool, it's terrible when you think of the history of the club, I guess Pass and Move just isn't the Liverpool Groove anymore? I know that when I played football as a schoolboy triangular passing and movement of the ball where the legacy of fantastic Liverpool sides of the 70's and 80's.

Could the fact that both teams are desperately trying to win a particular competition, Chelsea the CL and Liverpool the PL, that they are setting up a side that should be able to consistently win 1-0?

However the argument does fall down in places, Chelsea have been very consistent in the league (almost winning on 4 fronts, 2 at most now) and Liverpool have managed to get to the Champions League final beating Barcelona on the way. But the question that remains is:

Are the supporters and backers of these clubs happy to sit through boring football in 90% of games if it means winning competitions?

PHB

Ugly football is ok if you win, but if you lose, it's just boring.
If Liverpool lose the CL Final, and have played ugly football all year, what have they got?
Chelsea have won the league cup, but if they lose the FA Cup final, what have the fans really got this season?
Just boredness and disappointment.

Boredum goes away when you are winning, but without it, you have nothing.

If United had lost the premiership this year, while it would have really sucked, I could at least say I enjoyed nearly every match.

Thanx 4 The Fish

You wou;dn't though PHB, look at the Arsenal, play great football, have won nothing, you don't see too many jubilant Arsenal fans on here telling everybody how great it is to watch a team that plays attractive football week in and week out. And to use United as a shining light of how football should be played is a joke really, any team that has JoS and fletcher in it for a start are not set up for the attractive stuff.

PHB

You wou;dn't though PHB, look at the Arsenal, play great football, have won nothing, you don't see too many jubilant Arsenal fans on here telling everybody how great it is to watch a team that plays attractive football week in and week out.

I think you would actually. I'd say a lot of Arsenal fans enjoy how their team plays attractive football week in week out.
Look at last season, they won nothing, but I'd pretty sure the fans enjoyed their season. Why? Because the whole season they were entertained. Obviously they weren't as happy, and they'd be much happier if they were winning.


---

And to use United as a shining light of how football should be played is a joke really, any team that has JoS and fletcher in it for a start are not set up for the attractive stuff.

Ah yes, excellent logic, any team with a defender and a defensive midfield in it can't be set up for attractive football.
Oh yeh, btw, remember the time we beat Roma 7-1 in an incredible display of attacking football, guess who were playing, you guessed it, O'Shea and Fletcher.

And hey, it's not like O'Shea doesn't chip in with his fair share of goals, you might remember some of them.

LuckyLloyd

Draupnir wrote:

Valdano had a lot of interesting points to make and I dont think anyone can actually disagree with him that neither Liverpool or Chelsea play the most attractive football on the planet!

This has been characterised by both sides playing 4 central midfielders a lot this time, with Liverpool passing off Zenden on occassion as a winger. But either way, there isn't an abundance of entertainment on show from either team until Jose plays a fit Joe Cole or Robben.

For Chelsea, its not a surprise, they are just trying to dominate and win games, entertainment isn't their priority or else they wouldnt have hired Mourinho, who has never had a team that has played any kind of fluid passing game.

With Liverpool, it's terrible when you think of the history of the club, I guess Pass and Move just isn't the Liverpool Groove anymore? I know that when I played football as a schoolboy triangular passing and movement of the ball where the legacy of fantastic Liverpool sides of the 70's and 80's.

Could the fact that both teams are desperately trying to win a particular competition, Chelsea the CL and Liverpool the PL, that they are setting up a side that should be able to consistently win 1-0?

However the argument does fall down in places, Chelsea have been very consistent in the league (almost winning on 4 fronts, 2 at most now) and Liverpool have managed to get to the Champions League final beating Barcelona on the way. But the question that remains is:

Are the supporters and backers of these clubs happy to sit through boring football in 90% of games if it means winning competitions?

Yes. Football is a game. You play to win the game. There are a lot of different approaches and philosophies that can be applied to your efforts to win the game - once they are within the rules then they are all valid.

Under Evans we played nice football. But we were never going anywhere and it sucked to see the team crumble when the pressure was on. I will take the steel and determination of the performance against Chelsea every fcuking day of the week before I take that sh!t.

No team owes the game pretty football. If tricks, flicks, pass and move gung ho attacking football was a guaranteed winner then every team would employ it in every game. But it isn't. You are allowed to use tactics to shackle the opposition. Youa re allowed to outwork and outfight them. And if you are in the competition to start with - you are allowed to go out and win it irrespective of your strength on paper or the perception of how fun you are to watch.

The line of thought espoused by Valdano in that article is a load of old cobblers IMO.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote:

I think you would actually. I'd say a lot of Arsenal fans enjoy how their team plays attractive football week in week out.
Look at last season, they won nothing, but I'd pretty sure the fans enjoyed their season. Why? Because the whole season they were entertained. Obviously they weren't as happy, and they'd be much happier if they were winning.


---



Ah yes, excellent logic, any team with a defender and a defensive midfield in it can't be set up for attractive football.
Oh yeh, btw, remember the time we beat Roma 7-1 in an incredible display of attacking football, guess who were playing, you guessed it, O'Shea and Fletcher.

And hey, it's not like O'Shea doesn't chip in with his fair share of goals, you might remember some of them.

I believe all he was trying to say was that UTD are just as capable as most of having a snoozefest of a game as every other club (see last night for example). and for every example of a great game a UTD fan can mention i'm sure a liverpool fan could mention one just as easily, be it Arsenal in Anfield this year, destroying Chelsea in Anfield, beating PSV away with ease or 2 of the greatest finals of all time (Istanbul & Cardiff).

Kingp35

millersangel wrote:

I believe all he was trying to say was that UTD are just as capable as most of having a snoozefest of a game as every other club (see last night for example). and for every example of a great game a UTD fan can mention i'm sure a liverpool fan could mention one just as easily, be it Arsenal in Anfield this year, destroying Chelsea in Anfield, beating PSV away with ease or 2 of the greatest finals of all time (Istanbul & Cardiff).

To be fair Liverpool and Chelsea have a lot more boring games than Man U. As a nuetral I would watch a Man U game over a Liverpool or Chelsea game every time but as others have said if your team is winning you dont really care. Sadly watching either Liverpool or Chelsea bores me to tears.

PHB

I believe all he was trying to say was that UTD are just as capable as most of having a snoozefest of a game as every other club (see last night for example). and for every example of a great game a UTD fan can mention i'm sure a liverpool fan could mention one just as easily, be it Arsenal in Anfield this year, destroying Chelsea in Anfield, beating PSV away with ease or 2 of the greatest finals of all time (Istanbul & Cardiff).

I think that might be what you are saying, not necessarily T4TF. I think it was more to do with the players mentioned, which is why I thought I'd point out some of their good games

Every team has good games, and every team has snoozefests, but I want you to guess how many 0-0 draws United have had this season. I'll give ya a hint, you saw the only one last night.
Liverpool and Chelsea have way more boring games than United and Arsenal.
United have had about 3 games this year I didn't find entertaining, could you say the same about Liverpool?


Look at it this way, if you had a choice between watching Arsenal, United, or Chelsea play, which would you pick?

I'd wager a guess that it would go in this order

Arsenal
United
Chelsea

or

United
Arsenal
Chelsea

I'd be very suprised to see anybody put Chelsea first, maybe second ahead of Arsenal, because their relatively poor season, but in general, Chelsea would be the last team people would want to watch of those three.

iregk

To be honest you've got to agree with him. The Chelsea Liverpool games from a football point of view were hellacious! Compare it to the feast that was served up in the other semi and they didn't even come close.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote:

I think that might be what you are saying, not necessarily T4TF. I think it was more to do with the players mentioned, which is why I thought I'd point out some of their good games

Every team has good games, and every team has snoozefests, but I want you to guess how many 0-0 draws United have had this season. I'll give ya a hint, you saw the only one last night.
Liverpool and Chelsea have way more boring games than United and Arsenal.
United have had about 3 games this year I didn't find entertaining, could you say the same about Liverpool?


Look at it this way, if you had a choice between watching Arsenal, United, or Chelsea play, which would you pick?

I'd wager a guess that it would go in this order

Arsenal
United
Chelsea

or

United
Arsenal
Chelsea

I'd be very suprised to see anybody put Chelsea first, maybe second ahead of Arsenal, because their relatively poor season, but in general, Chelsea would be the last team people would want to watch of those three.

Arsenal
United
Chelsea

But maybe thats because i get to shout at Ronaldo prancing around or shout how crap o'shea is!

Just gets on my goat sometimes how UTD fans seem to think they they are gods gift to brilliant football.

Mr Alan

iregk wrote:

To be honest you've got to agree with him. The Chelsea Liverpool games from a football point of view were hellacious! Compare it to the feast that was served up in the other semi and they didn't even come close.

And how much of that sumptuous feast was served up by United?!

HashSlinging

I think what really matters here is that raffa refused to sign with Real three times according to Rafa himself, raffa doesn’t lie, I guess they were hoping to get Jose over but that seems to have also fallen through hence these stupid rumblings (sour grapes)..

In regards to winning the CL.

It doesn’t really matter what happens in the CL final, rafa is still building the team and is far behind in how much spending power has been allocated to him, compared to the league winning teams, Liverpool have been upto now punching way above their weight in terms of splashing money on players, I would class Liverpool’s spend the same as the likes of spurs or Newcastle which probably actually have more money, so in terms of where we are at the moment if we were spending 25 - 35 million on squad players and not winning the premiership or CL then I would be asking serious questions and be pissed at not winning anything.

Personally I think its a miracle or good managment, that we are where we are in both the CL and league and its been a terrific season.

HashSlinging

iregk wrote:

To be honest you've got to agree with him. The Chelsea Liverpool games from a football point of view were hellacious! Compare it to the feast that was served up in the other semi and they didn't even come close.

If you want to see loads of scores, go and watch GAA or rugby, I like chess, and I also like strategy.

BaZmO*

millersangel wrote:

I believe all he was trying to say was that UTD are just as capable as most of having a snoozefest of a game as every other club (see last night for example).

And who were Utd. playing last night?

PHB wrote:

Look at it this way, if you had a choice between watching Arsenal, United, or Chelsea play, which would you pick?

I'd wager a guess that it would go in this order

Arsenal
United
Chelsea

or

United
Arsenal
Chelsea

I'd have to agree with that, but I'd prefer to watch Spurs rather than Chelsea.

As for the point that Valdano was making, I'd agree that Rafa and Jose teams don't necessarily play entertaining football but I think it has nothing to do with the fact that neither have played at a professional level themselves. I think it's more to do with the fact that they've found a system that works for them. Rafa's system more so in the CL but I think that's more to do with his constant squad rotations and Jose's works in all competitions because he tends to stick with the same starting 11 as often as he can, plus the fact that Chelsea have a much better squad than Liverpool.

It's just a shame that Mourinho, with all the millions at his disposal, doesn't play a more attractive style of football.

I'm loathe to quote Dunphy but the CL semi between Liverpool and Chelsea was like , "Watching two bouncers slugging it out than a dark alley"

ciaran76

HashSlinging wrote:

It doesn’t really matter what happens in the CL final, rafa is still building the team and is far behind in how much spending power has been allocated to him, compared to the league winning teams, Liverpool have been upto now punching way above their weight in terms of splashing money on players, I would class Liverpool’s spend the same as the likes of spurs or Newcastle which probably actually have more money, so in terms of where we are at the moment if we were spending 25 - 35 million on squad players and not winning the premiership or CL then I would be asking serious questions and be pissed at not winning anything.

Personally I think its a miracle or good managment, that we are where we are in both the CL and league and its been a terrific season.

I think you will find that Liverpool are 2nd to Chelsea on what they have spent on players in the last few years.

HashSlinging

Whats a couple of years, what about the last decade? team building dosent happen overnight or even two three years or seasons.

RE*AC*TOR

I've watched a lot of Liverpool games this season (being a liverpool fan), and there have been some really really awful games. Not your run of the mill dull games, games that truly shake your ability to continue as a football fan.

True there have been some great, exciting games, and I would consider the semi final second leg with Chelsea to be an exciting game, but I would agree with the summation, that for a neutral, who just wants to enjoy the spectacle of football, Liverpool would currently not be as safe a bet as Man UTD, or probably Arsenal.

The weakest part of the Liverpool team is the frontline, even our best forward (Kuyt) is a workhorse type player, in the mould of Mark Hughes. So when the frontline isn't offering something special, the machine-like grinding of the midfield and back-four assumes control. This can be ok against Barca or such big teams, but against bottom half of the premiership teams, you should be able to "play" your way through them, instead of reducing it to a discipline and physicality competition.

If Gonzalez / Pennant / Bellamy etc had proved more potent, I think this wouldn't have been such an issue. But by and large they haven't offered the type of play they were bought for. Pennant is starting to progress, and has offered some good games of late, Gonzalez has really only shown glimpses, Bellamy though, a proven premiership performer is surely the most bizarre failure, and undoubtedly will depart for pastures new in the summer.

The merry-go-round then will begin again in earnest in the summer, Voronin, a Ukranian striker is already Anfield-bound, but doesn't seem to offer profligacy in front of goal that is needed, another Kuyt methinks. Gonzalez should be given another season to prove himself, but competition for his place will come with the return of Garcia from injury, and likewise Kewell (if he escapes the clearout). Pennant may find himself vying for places with not only Steven Gerrard, but perhaps Daniel Alves. The Sevilla full-back / winger, is a long-term Rafa target. He fulfills not only Benitez's love for multitasking players (ahh Zenden), but also offers a quick, skillful attacking option and scorer of spectacular goals in La Liga.

Whether or not these addition or other unseen additions will provide that consistent creative output for Liverpool remains to be seen. One thing is surely certain, next season Liverpool will be well organised, well disciplined, and well let in few goals. The last time Liverpool were the most exciting team to watch in the Premiership was under the guidance of Roy Evans. Those days are dead, yet fewer and fewer people mourn them since the unexpected success of '05. Should '07 prove to make it 6, I think few Liverpool fans will dwell on the mind-numbingly dull trip to Man City, and perhaps one or two fans, whose team offer weekly shows of pure entertainment, will look somewhat enviously at Liverpool's dull, grinding machine.