Visions for Waterford

fricatus

I think the alternative proposal for Bolton Street is really excellent. Usually when I see "alternative proposals" for anything in Waterford, it's from the whingers' brigade, Brendan McCann and the WCTU, and consists of reduced building heights (three stories), "community facilities" and "cultural spaces", which are fine aims in themselves, but which are just used as window dressing for left-wing objectionism and a hatred of "progress".

However, this is a proposal which, whatever its flaws, has been designed with one guiding principle in mind: great urban design for Waterford. The guy obviously has a passion for this city which most of us share, but which maybe we're not good at articulating.

But anyway, why don't we give it a try? What are your visions for Waterford and the improvement of the built environment?

I'll start the ball rolling:

1. The Quay: first off, stick the parking underground and build a big median with flowerbeds and fountains down the middle for the pedestrians. Plant trees on the city side, river side and median. Provide turning lanes for safety and create pedestrian-priority crossings at every junction. The traffic will filter through, though at reduced speed. Keep that old crane by all means, but paint the bloody thing and give it a good clean up, as well as landscaping the area around it. Make it a proper feature.

2. North Quays: build the new railway station at the centre of it, as the transport hub of the region. A pedestrian bridge from Barronstrand St across will put the railway station only 5 minutes from the shopping and historical heart of the city. Insist on well designed modern buildings up to 15 stories so as to make a bold statement about Waterford's future and to create a counterpoint for the old city on the south bank.

3. ESB pylons: move those bloody things! Coming into Waterford from Dublin, it looks like Krasnoyarsk or somewhere else unpronounceable in Siberia, with power stations and tractor factories everywhere. Move those pylons down to where the new bridge is being built.

4. Bilberry: while we're at it, get rid of all those crappy unsightly buildings in Bilberry and Grattan Quay, especially that blue industrial shed, the Foundary and that horrible Guinness brewery. The apartment buildings along there are all right: why not extend those all the way down to where the rock juts out into the road?

Hifive

Fricatus for Taoiseach yeeaa....
Will we ever see that kind of investment in waterfords infastructure? I hope so. Id love to see the Quays developed like that but "That awful Guinness brewery" represents a €38 million investment by Diageo only 4 years ago so that isnt going anywhere. Is it really that bad anyway? at least its modern and different and I think it would compliment the proposed new railway station when (if) its built.

BBM77

Personally, I believe to achieve a modern vision for Waterford most of the city councillors will have to be replaced by people with some vision. They are stuck in a pre-celtic tiger / city square type vision of progress.

I would like to see some kind of incentive been offered to high quality shops and cafes to set up in the city centre. A reduction on rates to such business based in the city centre for example. Anything to give more weight to the city centre when deciding were to open a shop or café. Shops such as Tommy Hilfiger, Jack & Jones, Pamela Scott and cafes whose name I cannot think off are the way to go. I mean, how many mobile phone shops does one city need?

Another Maritana Gate type development and a hotel should be built on the gas works site + Johnstown Industrial Estate, industrial estates like this is one thing that should be moved to the outer ring road. I think offices are a key part of the upgrading of the city centre and I also feel that the gas works site and location does not lend itself well to retail.

I think a road tunnel should be constructed under the Suir from the Tower Hotel to Ferrybank so the river can be keep clear for boating and cruse liners.


I believe that the kind of city centre we all want is not as far away as we might think. If the Michael St shopping centre could just get over the planning hurdle without its scale being reduced, it would kick start further smaller improvements that would make a big difference. That is the key though, if we end up with a city square size shopping centre it will be a badly missed opportunity and there is not another site like it in the city centre.

merlante

I actually think that Waterford City Council have been quite good recently, and the development plan and things like the new Gracedieu neighbourhoods and the initial plan to redevelop the area between the ESB and the park, etc., are all steps in the right direction. Looking for the boundary extension is a good idea as well and they should stick at it. Getting the Airport road improved and numerous other road improvements, as well as inner city pedestrianisation, etc., is all very good.

I agree that if Michael St. comes through we can expect big things from then on. It is the key stone for retail in the city centre, there is no doubt about it. The quicker the north quays gets on track the better too.

fricatus

Hifive wrote:

Fricatus for Taoiseach yeeaa....

I hope I can count on your vote this coming 24 May...

Hifive wrote:

"That awful Guinness brewery" represents a €38 million investment by Diageo only 4 years ago so that isnt going anywhere. Is it really that bad anyway?

In my view it is... I come home in the N9 from KK every evening and its awfulness astounds me. To the casual visitor it looks like an oil refinery! I think the Lonely Planet or Rough Guide actually mistook it for one. We have so much perfectly good industrial land in Belview and the Old Kilmeaden Road. Why wasn't the investment made there?

merlante wrote:

...and things like the new Gracedieu neighbourhoods...

Some work going on there! I drove that Carrickpherish road this evening and it's incredible the level of activity.

rogue-entity

I would be against any moves to increase the pedestrian lights on the key, its hard enough getting from one end to the other without every friggn light turning red, and those assholes that use the outside lane going up the key (the one that runs kerbside by the buildings) as a feckin parking lane. Just driving past the granville and the shops up from that, and you nealy always have to move back into the inside lane, or try and squeeze past the parked cars and not hit the traffic on your right side. What every do, we definatly need to sort that problem.

So, we have 3 mobile phone stores, big deal, we have umpteen feckin clothes shops, and no decent electronics or media stores, every new store that has opened has been some feckin clothes shop, we have hundreds of them already, how about a UCI or Ster Century Cinema, HMV, a Virgin Megastore a decent bloody electronics store, somewhere like Peats (yeah, i know there more of a Dublin thing) or Harvy Norman. Not everyone in waterford wants to waste their money on designer goods :rolleyes:

BBM77

rogue-entity wrote:

So, we have 3 mobile phone stores, big deal, we have umpteen feckin clothes shops, and no decent electronics or media stores, every new store that has opened has been some feckin clothes shop, we have hundreds of them already, how about a UCI or Ster Century Cinema, HMV, a Virgin Megastore a decent bloody electronics store, somewhere like Peats (yeah, i know there more of a Dublin thing) or Harvy Norman. Not everyone in waterford wants to waste their money on designer goods :rolleyes:

THREE BLOODY MOBILE PHONES STORES, HAA

Carphone Warehouse
3G
Meteor
Lets Talk Phones
The one inside city square
Office 1
O2
Vodafone

All in about ½ mile square.

When I say Jack & Jones etc I was referring more to the quality of the premises than what is in them and a HMV would be good to.

rogue-entity

Well, the O2 store is actually Hewden Communications, not an actual proper O2 store (we could actually use one of them instead of that place).
Meteor, Vodafone and 3 all serve their respective operators, and we need them, because, people are far nicer to deal with in person then some call center. 3G, they tend to sell mostly eircom and sky stuff and they are the only Apple reseller in Waterford, so we need them. Carphone Warehouse, well, they sell everything else phone related, and they also sell sim-free handsets, useful to have. As for the rest, we dont need them.

We do have plenty of good clothes stores, from cheap socks and stuff in Pennys, to designer stuff in TH's. But we have so many unneccessary clothes stores that we could do without.

We really could use a better cinema, like Ster Century or UCI. We could definatly do with a HMV or a Virgin Megastore, and a GAME store as well would be cool. There just isnt much competition with the local book, music, game and DVD places to keep the prices down, so I tend to buy more stuff online now.

mike65

Storm Cinemas are opening in Railway Square, Soundstore is in Ballybricken but who buys hi-fi etc in shops these days?

Mike.

GroundHog

Hi All

haven't actually been in Waterford for about 2 years, used to spend a lot of time there when some friends were in the college, and always thought it was a smashing place for going out etc. (excluding the security in the Bridge nightclub!!).

Anyway came across this post and also read an article in the Examiner the other day about new centres in Waterford, struck me that the most important thing is no more building faceless white cladding carbuncles that don't give anything other than more bland clothes. Examiner says they have a site to show the plans, usual architects sketches but if their telling the truth a lot more going in than just shopping www.firstcity.ie

BBM77

GroundHog wrote:

Hi All

haven't actually been in Waterford for about 2 years, used to spend a lot of time there when some friends were in the college, and always thought it was a smashing place for going out etc. (excluding the security in the Bridge nightclub!!).

Anyway came across this post and also read an article in the Examiner the other day about new centres in Waterford, struck me that the most important thing is no more building faceless white cladding carbuncles that don't give anything other than more bland clothes. Examiner says they have a site to show the plans, usual architects sketches but if their telling the truth a lot more going in than just shopping www.firstcity.ie

The outer ring road development thread expands on this:)

GroundHog

Ballybrickenman wrote:

The outer ring road development thread expands on this:)

Thanks ballybrickenman, had a look at that, seems the plans are there to facilitate all. had a further look on the firstcity.ie the link to the developers site is good - their the people who did the cinema, hotel complex in Galway and the scothch hall in Drogheda (my missus is from there and raves about the place - women and shopping!!!)

Fajitas!

From that First City site,

"Waterford people said the main types not well catered for were female fashion, male fashion, cinema and outdoor sports. (These are the main elements proposed for the First City Quarter)."

Me dickie. There's more clothes shops than restaurants. Not saying the site is wrong, but why are people looking for more clothes shops? I mean, head into City Square, there's a ton of them. Around Georges Court too. We certainly don't need any more of them!!!

"Edward Holdings plan to invest €200 million in a world class project that will generate over 3,000 direct jobs and more than 3,200 indirect jobs for Waterford"

I'll believe it when I see it tbh. It would be fantastic alright, but I don't think it's going to be in my lifetime.

Bards

"First City" belongs in the City Centre of the First City. End of Story

Jor

1. The Quay: first off, stick the parking underground
Fricatus, would that not make it an underwater car park.

I think a road tunnel should be constructed under the Suir from the Tower Hotel to Ferrybank so the river can be keep clear for boating and cruse liners.
Ballybri, What is stopping the boats going up-river as it is?

I think that the "Brewery" (Awful name) site should be fully used as the new M&S store. They could design a single store around their needs which would make it easier to facilitate the BmcCers. This would be preferable to another mall/center sucking businesses inside and turning the streets into blank walls.

Agree with people about fashion shops, especially womens shops. How can the need more!!!
Has anyone else noticed the increasing number of vacant shops around. Molloys and Printing shop (opposite cinema), cafe and shop in City Square, Tony O'farrell and Michael Crowe furniture shops on the Quay.
Why don't we worry about getting these filled with viable businesses before looking for another mall or out-of-town retail shed.


Hope Tweedy gets his super-pub/night spot in Patrick Street, if it keeps him out of the Besco site. This would ruin Ballybricken.

BBM77

Jor wrote:

I think a road tunnel should be constructed under the Suir from the Tower Hotel to Ferrybank so the river can be keep clear for boating and cruse liners.
Ballybri, What is stopping the boats going up-river as it is?

Hope Tweedy gets his super-pub/night spot in Patrick Street, if it keeps him out of the Besco site. This would ruin Ballybricken.

Nothing, that is the point; it is proposed to build a bridge there I think a tunnel would make a lot more sense.

And your right, turning Besco’s into a super-pub would ruin Ballybricken.

Newaglish

Just a point on the clothes shops, men's shopping is a disaster in town! If I want to buy tracksuits from lifestyle sports or awful tat from river island or Jack&Jones then it's OK, but there's nowhere to buy nice clothes. Heores & Pull&Bear maybe but even then it can be pretty hit and miss. To be honest, just stand in red square and look at the people walking around you. We need better clothes stores!

What annoys me the most about Waterford? Where the hell is one supposed to go to eat? There's plenty of nice restaurants if I want to go for dinner, but what if I just want something small? We often bemoan this problem when wandering around the town at about 5 or 6pm. The only place that really serves anything other than bland paninis is Espresso, and I think i've over-visited that particular place.

merlante

Newaglish wrote:

Just a point on the clothes shops, men's shopping is a disaster in town! If I want to buy tracksuits from lifestyle sports or awful tat from river island or Jack&Jones then it's OK, but there's nowhere to buy nice clothes. Heores & Pull&Bear maybe but even then it can be pretty hit and miss. To be honest, just stand in red square and look at the people walking around you. We need better clothes stores!

What annoys me the most about Waterford? Where the hell is one supposed to go to eat? There's plenty of nice restaurants if I want to go for dinner, but what if I just want something small? We often bemoan this problem when wandering around the town at about 5 or 6pm. The only place that really serves anything other than bland paninis is Espresso, and I think i've over-visited that particular place.

Summatra, Geoffs, Bistro, Ginos... not much at that time. Is O'Briens still open? What about the new coffee/pastries/juice shop outside George's court? You have to be aware of where you're going in Waterford or you'll just annoy yourself walking around looking for somewhere.

metoolbox

I for one would like to see more strip bars around de town, the place in ballybricken is dire, Id love to see Mary de Rake on the dance pole.

mad man

Newaglish wrote:

Just a point on the clothes shops, men's shopping is a disaster in town! If I want to buy tracksuits from lifestyle sports or awful tat from river island or Jack&Jones then it's OK, but there's nowhere to buy nice clothes. Heores & Pull&Bear maybe but even then it can be pretty hit and miss. To be honest, just stand in red square and look at the people walking around you. We need better clothes stores!

I agree with this entirely.I was going to start a thread on it actually.I was in town yesterday and noticed the state of the clobber on a lot of people.I am no fashion victim so I never thought I'd see the day when I would say it but Waterford needs some serious fashion police.I was in KK last week and I just didn't see this.I hate to say it but it was like being in Dundrum shopping centre and then driving down to Tallaght.Or walking from Grafton St. to Henty St.Trackies,Hoodies and Baseball caps everywhere.I said this to someone else and they said something about it being "micky money day".Crass but maybe that was the reason.

Roen

mad man wrote:

........"micky money day".Crass but maybe that was the reason.

I thought it was "dickie day", first Tues of the month?

decies

mad man wrote:

I agree with this entirely.I was going to start a thread on it actually.I was in town yesterday and noticed the state of the clobber on a lot of people.I am no fashion victim so I never thought I'd see the day when I would say it but Waterford needs some serious fashion police.I was in KK last week and I just didn't see this.I hate to say it but it was like being in Dundrum shopping centre and then driving down to Tallaght.Or walking from Grafton St. to Henty St.Trackies,Hoodies and Baseball caps everywhere.I said this to someone else and they said something about it being "micky money day".Crass but maybe that was the reason.

Waterford is a working class town plain and simple.
Have a look at the shops that are doing all the business in the town,i think that says it all,i passed the new tommy hillfiger shop a good few times in the last week or so,i think its very quiet,this tells it own story!!!

mad man

Roen wrote:

I thought it was "dickie day", first Tues of the month?

That would have been yesterday so.My friend was correct:D

I sent you a PM btw.

mad man

decies wrote:

Waterford is a working class town plain and simple.
Have a look at the shops that are doing all the business in the town,i think that says it all,i passed the new tommy hillfiger shop a good few times in the last week or so,i think its very quiet,this tells it own story!!!

This can't be the reason.I find it hard to accept Waterford is more "working class" than anywhere else in the South East or the country for that matter..Especially since there are 10,000 students in the city.I would also not associate dressing like a knacker with being a "working class" phenomenan.There are plenty of places in town you can kit yourself out properly if you wanted to.It would also be no more espensive than the "Skanger chic" you see around the place.

Also the seating in John Roberts Square can be a double edged sword.Although its not as bad as it was in the old "Red Square" days of the early nineties it still can atracact undesirables.

BBM77

I have to agree with mad man, Waterford is no more working class that any were else in the country. It just seems that the “working class” travel into the city centre a lot more than the fashion elites. Maybe if there were more shops like Tommy Hilfiger in the city centre they might come in to shop, or are city centres out of fashion!

Anyway, I hate that term working class, its far too English inherited wealth and status for me to stomach.

road_high

mad man wrote:

I agree with this entirely.I was going to start a thread on it actually.I was in town yesterday and noticed the state of the clobber on a lot of people.I am no fashion victim so I never thought I'd see the day when I would say it but Waterford needs some serious fashion police.I was in KK last week and I just didn't see this.I hate to say it but it was like being in Dundrum shopping centre and then driving down to Tallaght.Or walking from Grafton St. to Henty St.Trackies,Hoodies and Baseball caps everywhere.I said this to someone else and they said something about it being "micky money day".Crass but maybe that was the reason.

We have our fair share of these too you know!! Visit KK on a dole day or something, they come out of the woodwork...KK is one of the least safe places to walk through at night.
Waterford people shouldn't be putting down their city. I genuinely think it's a nice place. The bypass will make an enormous difference to ye. As it is the Quays are just choked to death with HGV's and traffic. It totally takes from the fact that the river is Waterford's best feature. It can't be enjoyed as a result.It must be very off putting for tourists.

Newaglish

merlante wrote:

Summatra, Geoffs, Bistro, Ginos... not much at that time. Is O'Briens still open? What about the new coffee/pastries/juice shop outside George's court? You have to be aware of where you're going in Waterford or you'll just annoy yourself walking around looking for somewhere.

Argh, those are exactly the kind of bland awful places for food! Gino's is a vile pizza parlour and the food in Geoffs is just dire.

As far as I know that place outside George's Court is on of those muffin/smoothie/refrigerated sandwich type places that i'm trying to avoid.

You're right about the Bistro though, that's more what i'm looking for. I must actually go there more often. Although I went in the other day and they told me I needed a reservation. Gasp!

merlante

Newaglish wrote:

Argh, those are exactly the kind of bland awful places for food! Gino's is a vile pizza parlour and the food in Geoffs is just dire.

As far as I know that place outside George's Court is on of those muffin/smoothie/refrigerated sandwich type places that i'm trying to avoid.

You're right about the Bistro though, that's more what i'm looking for. I must actually go there more often. Although I went in the other day and they told me I needed a reservation. Gasp!

Ginos is not all that bad imho, it's 100 times better than it was years ago, in case you haven't been there in a while. But fair enough, it's not top class.

I like the food in Geoffs to be honest and always have done. Plus it's a really nice place before it gets crowded later in the evening. Geoffs is a gem.

The new place outside George's court is grand. Smells very nice in there -- pasties, etc. Didn't eat in there yet, but I don't know where your negativity comes from. You wouldn't hang around in there for hours though, I'll give you that.

It's a pity the Bistro has gone that way, re reservations. Waste of time.

Summatra is far from bland though, I really like that place. 100 times better than Luna. Not that that would be hard.

I'm also on the look out new places though. They appear and disappear so fast in Waterford!

GroundHog

mad man wrote:

I agree with this entirely.I was going to start a thread on it actually.I was in town yesterday and noticed the state of the clobber on a lot of people.I am no fashion victim so I never thought I'd see the day when I would say it but Waterford needs some serious fashion police.I was in KK last week and I just didn't see this.I hate to say it but it was like being in Dundrum shopping centre and then driving down to Tallaght.Or walking from Grafton St. to Henty St.Trackies,Hoodies and Baseball caps everywhere.I said this to someone else and they said something about it being "micky money day".Crass but maybe that was the reason.

if anything KK is going to get better, with the new centre at the railway station and the one on the old mart site, anyway whats wrong with shellsuits and hoodies:D

merlante

btw., Harlequin on Stephen St., just off Patrick st., is a good cafe/wine bar serving italian food. Surprised it is not better known.

Was in Espresso today. Not impressed, mainly because it is a restaurant that seems to brand itself a cafe. Went in there for a coffee (it is called 'Espresso' after all), told them we just wanted coffee, and were put in an isolated seat just outside the jacks and the kitchen, where the low spenders are presumably hidden away from the 'real' customers. Won't be going back in a hurry. Maybe the food is terrific though, I don't know.

Note above: good review = 2 lines; bad review = 6 lines. Ain't that the nature of praise and criticism.