Weight cutting in the UFC...should somthing be done?

Vince135792003

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA4iC8MuFfQ

This is a clip from Tuesdays Ultimate Fighter show. For those that don't watch the show, it is a 5 minute compelling clip of a fighter Gabe Rudeiger trying to make weight an hour before a weigh in.

Before I go on, he's probably not the greatest example in that as anyone has seen the show knows he was very lazy about losing weight. Yet, the majority of fighters drop weight, some drastically to enhance their chances at a lower weight class.

An article I read on Sherdog noted the following:

Despite being banned by the NCAA in 1998 (following the deaths of three college wrestlers), weight cutting has been used by professional wrestlers and mixed martial arts athletes for years as a way to gain a competitive advantage.

How?

Most combat sports have weight limits for certain classes. To get into a lower weight class, athletes endure hours of rapid weight loss prior to weighing in, and then scramble to put the pounds back on in time for their match, which is usually held later that night or sometimes the following day. The greater the weight advantage they have over their opponent, the greater their strength and chances of winning.

Or so they think.

Fluid restriction, sweating, bowel emptying and the use of diuretics as methods of cutting weight, if not carefully monitored, can result in impaired performance and ill health – including severe dehydration, heat stroke, electrolyte imbalances, damaged kidneys, heart failure and even death.

I was just wondering, if people think the UFC and MMA in general should attempt to change this?

rizzla

You did pick a bad example in Gabe, he was just so lazy.

As regards weight cutting, I haven't been watching MMA that long so my opinion isn't really well informed, but aren't the fighters usually just about the weight limit. Gabe was over 20lbs the limit and needed to drop it within 19hours and yet still had a piece of cake. Commited fighters wouldn't let their weight get so out of hand they'd need to drop 20lbs in less than a day.

The responsibility should rest with the fighter. If they wanna fall under a weight class they can either cut the weight, or gain muscle to increase their weight within their original class.

Vince135792003

rizzla wrote:

You did pick a bad example in Gabe, he was just so lazy.

As regards weight cutting, I haven't been watching MMA that long so my opinion isn't really well informed, but aren't the fighters usually just about the weight limit. their weight get so out of hand they'd need to drop 20lbs in less than a day.

.

Point taken on the Gabe video.

Heres a piece of an article by Mike Coughlin that might explain it better:

Size matters. When the Ultimate Fighting Championship burst upon the world of fighting it had no weight limits. This allowed small, but very talented, men like Royce Gracie to wow audiences by beating larger, though untalented, challengers. When the smaller man had a notable skill advantage the size difference could be nullified. As fighters of all weights began to get more skilled the need for weight classes arose and were thus created. Fighters, like amateur wrestlers, quickly learned that they could cut weight and fight smaller men. While the practice of weight cutting is common in MMA, it is a custom that needs to be done away with.

The UFC has five active weight classes: 155 lbs and below (lightweight), 155-170 lbs (welterweight), 170-185 lbs (middleweight), 185-205 (light heavyweight), 205-265 lbs (heavyweight). In general, fighters are weighed in the day before the fight. They have to be within one pound of the weight limit (meaning a 205 lb fighter could weigh 206 lbs and make weight), the theory being that a scale could be off a lb or so. They then have all day to put on extra pounds. Hijinx follow.

Many fighters are dropping anywhere from 10-25 lbs in order to make weight. Matt Hughes, champion at 170 lbs, walks around at 190 lbs. He cuts 20 lbs in order to make weight! If he fights someone who naturally walks around at 170 lbs, he has a twenty-pound weight advantage. For a guy who relies upon strength and power, twenty pounds can be a world of difference. It isn't that Hughes is cheating, he's taking advantage of the system. But he is gaining an unfair advantage over those who do not cut weight. It's the same argument against steroids: if one guy does it, everyone has to do it just to keep up.

More than just giving a fighter an advantage, cutting weight brings with it potential health risks. In one of the saddest and most infamous incidents in collegiate amateur wrestling history, during a one month span in 1997, three young men lost their lives during the course of trying to cut weight. The wrestlers had been trying to cut several pounds in an effort to make weight. All three were wearing rubber suits (which facilitate the process) at the time.

While the deaths were shocking, the methods were not. In the days leading up to a fight - or in the case of wrestling, a match - many wrestlers will begin to severely diet. They'll decrease their caloric intake to a dangerous level, often getting by on two extremely small meals and a few glasses of water. The hours leading up to weigh in are where the true danger sets in. Many will wear the aforementioned rubber suits, sit in 200+ degree saunas, and try to sweat out as much water weight as possible. The twenty pounds can literally evaporate.

You can read the rest here:http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/3553/108/

Mossy Monk

That Gabe is some lazy bastard. He went as far as cholonic irrigation to cut weight ffs. The morning of the weigh didn't he eat cake. As Dana White said, he knew the weight class but was a lazy bastard and left it till the last minute. Good riddance to him.

MikeHoncho

Yeah Gabe was a douchebag. He wanted to fight Weems as he knew he couldnt beat Corey so he didnt make the weight on purpose I reckon. Good ridance. I do however agree with sentiment of this post. It is such a dangerous process to put the human body through. How can anyone be healthy after losing that much fluid in such a quick amount of time.

Fozzy

I haven't watched this season of TUF at all, but I've heard about this lad and his laziness

I was actually reading an article on weight cutting the other day. It was saying that if the cutting and putting back on the weight is done within 48 hours, no diuretics are used and all the weight is put back on, then there's no real dangers. I can't be sure how true that is, but the guy who wrote it showed how he cut 20lbs for a weightlifting competition and put it all back on, and he seemed fine once he had the weight back on

The likes of Matt Hughes and Tito Ortiz have been cutting for most of their lives, since amateur wrestling is usually associated with weight cutting. A lot of the other fighters mightn't be used to it as much. I know Kurt Angle never cut weight, he had to rely on technique against bigger guys

The problem with weighing them in on the day of the fight is that a lot of guys will still try to cut weight, which would be more unhealthy and unsafe. Maybe if they were to weigh them twice they could monitor it better

It is a bit unfair though. With two equally skilled fighters, the bigger one has the advantage

Vince135792003

I might as well post the rest of Coughlins article. I'm not saying everything he says in it is gospel truth by the way. It is a good read though I think:

The health problems that arise are scary. According to Dr. Bryan W. Smith (M.D., P.H.D., FAAP, Medical Consultant to the Atlantic Coast Conference), the ailments can include: "Impaired thermoregulation, decreased work capacity, decreased renal blood flow, increased heart rate, reduced endurance capacity, altered hormonal status, and stunted growth and development. Weight cutting has been associated with cardiac arrhythmias, pulmonary emboli, pancreatitis and decreased immune function. Altered psychological states and impaired academic performance have been reported." In short, a lot of really bad things can happen to a person.

It wasn't a problem that came out of nowhere though. The American Medial Association had been expressing concern regarding weight cutting since 1967. In 1976, the American College of Sports Medicine had similar doubts. Many former and current fighters have expressed that the process is draining and they felt it was a danger. Additionally, common sense says that draining a body of as much water as possible isn't healthy.

To get rid of this practice, the UFC, in conjuction with the Nevada State Athletic Commission, should put in a place the following:

1) Have the weigh-ins as close to the actual fight as possible. If the fights are scheduled to begin at 7 PM, then weigh-ins should take place no later than 5 hours prior. Having the weigh-ins on the same day would force fighters to fight closer to their more natural weight, as it would remove a great deal of the time used to re-hydrate. Furthermore, it allows enough time for any fighter who is one or two pounds over to possibly drop the needed weight (such a small amount isn't really dangerous, nor would it likely influence the outcome of a match). It also gives fighters ample time to prepare themselves for their upcoming fight. The last few hours before someone steps into the Octagon should be spent warming up, mentally and physically, not standing on scales.

2) Create a new 225 lb weight class. Fighters such as Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz all reportedly walk around at about 220 lbs or so. Since that seems to be the maximum weight someone can come down from, create a new class specifically for these guys. If fighters at this weight don't have their own weight class they'll be run over by large heavyweights.

3) If the UFC refuses to implement the above, they should at least provide fight fans with an unofficial weigh-in, similar to what is done on boxing telecasts. Fans would then be able to appreciate size differences that may exist. BJ Penn's victory of Matt Hughes is even more impressive when one realizes that he gave up at least 10, if not 15, lbs to the Illinois native.

By forcing weigh-ins to take place the day of the fight, the playing field is leveled. If a fighter wishes to cut weight, they may, and face the repercussions of having abused their body so severely mere hours before a fight. Most fighters will choose to fight at their more natural weight though.

There could be concern that fighters might not make weight, which would put in jeopardy potential main events. While this is a legitimate fear, the men who fight should be professional enough that this does not happen.

Fight fans will benefit from the elimination of weight cutting as well. Fighters will come into the Octagon at their peak physical condition, as opposed to now when they have destroyed their body all week long. Perfectly rested fighters will result in the best possible fights. It will also cut out any potential excuses that could arise, from fighter fatigue to complaints about size difference.

fatal

Firstly,Weight cutting is not a must in MMA(especially in the UFC).These guys know months in advance that they have a fight coming up and the weight that they must be below to fight.To do what gabe did and to try and start cutting so much weight in the last day is pathertic.In my opinion he took the easy way out so that he didnt have to fight corey hill.
What other alternatives do we have to not allowing fighters to cut a few pounds in the lead up to a fight?If its banned,what stops fighters from cutting weight in the privacy of their own homes etc?
At the end of the day,its the fighters that choose what weight class they want to fight under,not the UFC

Vince135792003

fatal wrote:

What other alternatives do we have to not allowing fighters to cut a few pounds in the lead up to a fight?

As Coughlin was saying in the article I posted, you could move the weigh in closer to the fight. This would make cutting 20+ lbs in a short amount of time before an event less advantageous.

I'm no expert in this at all. The problem seems to be not just cutting a few pounds. The problem (if there is one) is guys losing extreme amounts of weight in a short amount of time so they can replenish and gain an advantage going into a fight. Evidence seems to point that it can be dangerous for them and unfair to their opponent.

An example would be BJ Penn versus Matt Hughes. BJ didn't need to cut any weight at 170, so he fought at 170. Matt Hughes apparently cuts from 200lbs to 170 at the weigh in and then gains a lot of it back 24 hours before the fight.

So is it fair in the 170lb weight division, that come the fight you have 1 guy fighting at 170 (Penn) and another fighting at 180 maybe (Hughes).

Some might say then, well why doesn't BJ do the same in a fight like that? Well the argument is why should he have to do something that is medically proven to be bad for you just to get a level playing field.

Ricky Hatton mentioned that 2 days after a fight he puts on about 2 stone. As he cuts it so much. But thats boxing and there are too many weight divisions there. Would could be in 1 division .... Fart .... and you are in the division below.

Dragan

Having weigh ins closer to the fights would do nothing. People would still cut the same ammount, you would then just have the situation of people going into fights heavily depleted.

It's also ridiculous to use Hughes as an example in the "he walks around at 190, he fights at 170" line. He does not cut 20 lbs of water weight. At 190 he is about 12% bodyfat or so….. So that’s 22.8 lbs of fat 167.2 lbs of lean mass. By the time he reaches a fight his bodyfat is closer to 8 or 9% ( lets for the sake of argument keep him at 190lbs for this ) which is 15.2lbs of fat. That’s a 7.6 lbs loss just from fat. Leaving us with 12.4 lbs of weight to lose from out "walking around weight".

So, we have 12.4lbs to lose BUT in order to have lost the original bodyfat we have been on a big training plan and a calorie restricted diet. Now then, lets cut out carbs for 4 days and watch what happens. Guys like Hughes are made from thick dense muscle that is fueled by Glycogen. Drop the carbs and stay training and your not replenishing your glycogen stores. For a guy of Hughe's frame you could easily pull another 3 to 4 lbs from that alone. So that leaves us with around 8lbs to lose through dehydration of subcutaneous water.

The problem with weight cutting is people emphasis it too much, talking about someone cutting "X lbs of water." Bollix. There "walk around weight" is normally there average day weight, before they start an 8 or 10 week highly intense training cycle for a fight. Then they lose about 3 to 4% of there bodyfat ( if not a little bit more ) and can manipulate glycogen weight as well.

The only problem with weight cutting are the people who talk about it like they have a clue, and MAKE these kids believe that they need to lose 20lbs of water…..and ****ing idiots like Gabe who just reinforce that believe by being lazy and unable to dodge the cake.