Jumpin through hoops on the soccer forum

tallaght01

What's with all the red tape about joining the soccer forum. As a Sunderland season ticket holder for several years now, I am obviously a soccer visionary, and my wisdom would be an asset on the soccer forum. So, I steps out of my usual comfort zone of the biology/medicine forum to post something about my beloved black cats.

Anyway, I get there, and there's some blokes ranting on in the charter about how it's my "privelege" to be there, and basically bollocking people in advance. For the privelege of being able to talk soccer with these guys, you then have to find 2 hidden words somewhere and post them on yet another forum, with some pre-formulated agreement about how you promise to be good!

Now I've just come off the nightshift and couldn't even find the words I needed to cut and paste, so I've left it alone. The tone of the charter also seems pretty unfriendly.

But I was just wondering if it was really neccessary? I mean, why do you have to send some mesage saying you agree to abide by the rules etc, when it in no way forms the basis of any binding agreement. In fact, we all know some mods on other forums will ban people on a whim without relying on any kind of disclaimer.

All seems a bit bizarre to me. Seems to be taken a bit too seriously by whoever is running it. But I'd be interested to know the resoning behind it.

Kind regards,

Tallaght01, special advisor to Niall Quinn, and football jedi

c - 13

I'm not a member of that forum myself but I believe one of the reasons for the strict entry guidlines and charter was to prevent people joining up simply to post "Y0r3 te4M r teh G4yz"" threads.

seamus

Because back in the day, the soccer forum was a big pile of whinging, bitching, fighting idiots. Everyone who got banned, seemed determined to return and fight the corner of a team who live 100s of miles away and for whom they have no familial connections.

There was far too much work involved in it. There were two options: Make it request-only, or close it.

So they went with the former. After a number of incarnations, you have the existing system. Having to jump through so many hoops, people are a little more reluctant to spout abuse or otherwise get banned, because they know they'll never get back in.

I hear the forum is much nicer place to be these days.

tallaght01

lol

is that the soccur forum's version of "Yore Ma!" ?

I don't see how getting people to cut and paste a couple of lines, and to skim the charter for 2 italicised words would prevent that though.

But I was just curious more than anything. Like I said, I didn't bother applying coz the tone was pretty unfriendly and patronising to be honest.

But if that's their reasoning, then fair enough.

tallaght01

Fair enough, Seamus, but I don't see why they don't just ban people who are abusive or whatever, like they do on other threads. The copy and pasting thing just seems silly.

Plus, abusing the opposition fans if my fave thing about the footie :P

aidan_walsh

tallaght01 wrote:

Fair enough, Seamus, but I don't see why they don't just ban people who are abusive or whatever, like they do on other threads. The copy and pasting thing just seems silly.

Plus, abusing the opposition fans if my fave thing about the footie :P

Because unlike other forums, you would still have to jump through the registration hoops to get your highly cunning come back when you register your second account.

tallaght01

but the mods keep telling us how they can spot these 2nd accounts a mile off

r3nu4l

On another note...is there an inactivity clause?

I was granted access ages ago but when I tried to post the other day I was told I didn't have permissions?

I wasn't that bothered and I won't be re-applying simply because of the system.

/I'm not complaining about the system and the fact that I'm not bothered going through the rigmarole is testament to the fact that the system works and is good at keeping out those would-be duplicate account muppets

seamus

tallaght01 wrote:

but the mods keep telling us how they can spot these 2nd accounts a mile off

They can. It's having to continually ban them that's a pain in the ass.

There was also a similar issue keeping track of bans. So many people were getting banned that the mods couldn't keep track of who banned who and when, and so when a user asked to be unbanned, it was a headache to try and find out if the ban was finished.

I don't even have access to the soccer forum

Stark

tallaght01 wrote:

but the mods keep telling us how they can spot these 2nd accounts a mile off

I can spot yore ma a mile off.

tallaght01

Stark wrote:

I can spot yore ma a mile off.

lol, and yore ma can spot my knob a mile off

DeVore

If you have to jump through hoops to get access you will think twice about doing all that just to insult someone. You'll also think twice about insulting others if you realise you will have to go through all that again to get access again. And we regularly ban second accounts btw...

DeV.

tallaght01

Really seems a shame that it can't be just moderated like the other forums. Are they just thin on the ground for mods on the soccer forum?

But to be honest, dude, I thhink you should embrace the culture of abusive rivaly. It would do you good. It's the only reason i go to the local derbys

hullaballoo

Why does soccer have a bad name again?

The reason keeps on getting away from me.

Pherekydes

tallaght01 wrote:

I thhink you should embrace the culture of abusive rivaly.

I think this is the reason you're searching for, hulla. :rolleyes:

Personally, I wouldn't mind having an odd post now and again, but it's like having a conversation with 6 year-olds.

Have a look at the American Football Forum or the Rugby forum; there's none of that childish nonsense. The average soccer fan is immature, much like the superstars they revere.

mike65

We're not all mormons!

Mike.

seamus

tallaght01 wrote:

Are they just thin on the ground for mods on the soccer forum?

Just not paid enough to put up with the childish crap.

zAbbo

copying and pasting is a crude way to ensure you read the rules, as they are slightly different from other forums.

faceman

Ive no interest in the soccer forum but as i read it, technically someone with no interest in football could get access to the forum?

Pherekydes

mike65 wrote:

We're not all mormons!

Mike.

That's great, Mike. This is about the religion called soccer, not mormonism.

GuanYin

The soccer forum is probably one of the most difficult to moderate, along with AH, PI and Politics, with the added bonus that there is a rivalry, ranging from friendly to hostile between most of the groups of posters.

By and large, the forum brings out the worst in people, and I've seen everything from threats of physical violence to attempted blackmail in there.
(one poster threathened to try and make my life on boards difficult because I warned him/her about trolling :rolleyes:).

Those are extreme cases, for the most part the problem was merely abuse that almost always escalated out of hand and the fact that no matter what the topic, it degenerated into a pissing contest between a group of posters.

Because of posters like this, the forum was closed because it became too difficult to moderate. Eventually it was reopened and the main offenders were banned. However, the ease of dual accounts and the pain of having to repeatedly check posters that pop up everywhere was too much, so the forum was made private and access was granted by the mods only to new users who were vouched for by current members. The crux was, if the new member got banned, so did the person who vouched for them.

This calmed things down no end and slowly the access rules were relaxed.

Since I became a soccer mod (after all of the above), I've pretty much looked after access requests. We pretty much just asked that users read and agree to follow to charter. However, since maybe 70% of people requesting access did neither, I felt it best to just give them the agreement to copy paste and then add in identifier words so that they must at least access the charter.

Even then, we still get people who get it wrong, but it's down to about 10% now. When you get 20 requests a week at times and you have to screen each request to make sure it's not a troll account, it's not unreasonable to expect people to have read the instructions correctly.

All in all, it's better than it was. If you think the vouching system is better or can think of an alternative, I'm all ears.

copacetic

Slow coach wrote:

I think this is the reason you're searching for, hulla. :rolleyes:

Personally, I wouldn't mind having an odd post now and again, but it's like having a conversation with 6 year-olds.

Have a look at the American Football Forum or the Rugby forum; there's none of that childish nonsense. The average soccer fan is immature, much like the superstars they revere.

holy generalisations batman. talk about having a chip on your shoulder.

There are 100s of thousands of soccer fans in Ireland, prob more than any other sport, how you think you can generalise to such an extent is beyond me. Not exactly showing much maturity either!

With the system the guys have in place there is plenty of lively discussion, most of it above the 6 year old level.

Pherekydes

psi wrote:

...and the fact that no matter what the topic, it degenerated into a pissing contest between a group of posters.

Maybe this is the reason. I did use the phrase "average soccer fan" and there's plenty of room outside of this for the decentskin.

BuffyBot

Plus, abusing the opposition fans if my fave thing about the footie :P

Maybe that's why...

RuggieBear

seamus wrote:

Because back in the day, the soccer forum was a big pile of whinging, bitching, fighting idiots. Everyone who got banned, seemed determined to return and fight the corner of a team who live 100s of miles away and for whom they have no familial connections.

and it's different now...?:D

GuanYin

r3nu4l wrote:

On another note...is there an inactivity clause?

I was granted access ages ago but when I tried to post the other day I was told I didn't have permissions?

Checked the access lists and there is no entry for you.

Either you weren't actually granted access or you're mistaken about applying.

If you had been granted access you would be logged in the access list. You aren't so you never had access.

WhiteWashMan

psi wrote:

The soccer forum is probably one of the most difficult to moderate, along with AH, PI and Politics, with the added bonus that there is a rivalry, ranging from friendly to hostile between most of the groups of posters.

its only difficult if you make it difficult. personally, i dont see where the problem is. i think its something for the mods to hide behind myself.

psi wrote:

By and large, the forum brings out the worst in people, and I've seen everything from threats of physical violence to attempted blackmail in there.
(one poster threathened to try and make my life on boards difficult because I warned him/her about trolling :rolleyes:).

oh well then....

psi wrote:

Those are extreme cases, for the most part the problem was merely abuse that almost always escalated out of hand and the fact that no matter what the topic, it degenerated into a pissing contest between a group of posters.

and strangley enough, people who have never posted there before bear the brunt of this, while the tossers that youa re talking about here, are still regular posters, and still have the same arguments, and the same pissing contests, just without saying 'yore ma' in every other post. seems like things are sorted alright.

psi wrote:

Because of posters like this, the forum was closed because it became too difficult to moderate. Eventually it was reopened and the main offenders were banned. However, the ease of dual accounts and the pain of having to repeatedly check posters that pop up everywhere was too much, so the forum was made private and access was granted by the mods only to new users who were vouched for by current members. The crux was, if the new member got banned, so did the person who vouched for them.

This calmed things down no end and slowly the access rules were relaxed..

i dont know why you didnt just ban people the way any other forum does. seriously, its like the soccer forum needs an admin to sort it out every now and then, like a big brother approach.

psi wrote:

.


Even then, we still get people who get it wrong, but it's down to about 10% now. When you get 20 requests a week at times and you have to screen each request to make sure it's not a troll account, it's not unreasonable to expect people to have read the instructions correctly.

thats right, people get it wrong. its a good thing that youre never wrong. you know, like banning people from fora for something they say somewhere else. you know, that sort of stuff.

and yes, it is unreasonable. they want to post something about their team, they dont want a pre-nup agreement with you.

psi wrote:

All in all, it's better than it was. If you think the vouching system is better or can think of an alternative, I'm all ears.

yes, open up the forum again, and ban people for bannable offences. and stop having the little moderators football club where people get away with name calling, yet some newbie gets banned for ever because they didnt read the charter.

but i know all i will get from psi is the usual 'yawn' response for the simple reason that he wont engage in any conversation with me. and thats ok.

but if anyone can be arsed, why not start your own football forum on here. personally i think the soccer forum should be made private, and a new one opened that is opened to anyone who wants to post on it. hell, stick it under the AH structure and i'll look after it.
the soccer forum should be for soccer fans, not restricted to people who can follow a number of pointless directions.

WhiteWashMan

psi wrote:

Checked the access lists and there is no entry for you.

Either you weren't actually granted access or you're mistaken about applying.

If you had been granted access you would be logged in the access list. You aren't so you never had access.

i though you did all the requests?

but sure, im sure he was just mistaken about applying, coz god knows you couldnt make a mistake.

GuanYin

WhiteWashMan wrote:

its only difficult if you make it difficult. personally, i dont see where the problem is. i think its something for the mods to hide behind myself.

From what I understand, the Admins weren't overly happy about moving from the "vouching system" to the less stringent access request system. I'm not sure what the take is now.

and strangley enough, people who have never posted there before bear the brunt of this, while the tossers that youa re talking about here, are still regular posters, and still have the same arguments, and the same pissing contests, just without saying 'yore ma' in every other post. seems like things are sorted alright.

Actually, most of the "tossers" have calmed down, with one or two exceptions, so obviously it works well enough. But again, I wasn't involved in letting them back in.

i dont know why you didnt just ban people the way any other forum does. seriously, its like the soccer forum needs an admin to sort it out every now and then, like a big brother approach.

The soccer forum system is the aftermath of an Admin decision. You seem to think that I had some role to play in it, I wasn't around when this happened.

thats right, people get it wrong. its a good thing that youre never wrong. you know, like banning people from fora for something they say somewhere else. you know, that sort of stuff.

*yawn*

and yes, it is unreasonable. they want to post something about their team, they dont want a pre-nup agreement with you.

Perhaps it is but the evidence shows that, with the exception of 2-3 posters who were part responsible for getting the place closed to begin with, most of the posters prefer the forum now to when it was open access.

yes, open up the forum again, and ban people for bannable offences. and stop having the little moderators football club where people get away with name calling, yet some newbie gets banned for ever because they didnt read the charter.

You're talking about to separate fora there I think. I try cover as many posts as I can, I miss things, so do you I'm sure. If I miss it, I just hope it's reported.

but i know all i will get from psi is the usual 'yawn' response for the simple reason that he wont engage in any conversation with me. and thats ok.

Let me see, I *yawn* when you make a personal or trolling remark that really has no bearing on whatever point your dancing around. I mean, as I said before, when I entered into a long discussion with you on the forum moderation, if you actually made your points, clearly, coherently and without the need to be personal or try rise me, then maybe we could get somewhere.

While you continue to post in an ignorant, abusive manner, I don't see why I should respond with anything more than *yawn* - which is at least an honest response to how I feel about most of the posts you aim at me.

the soccer forum should be for soccer fans, not restricted to people who can follow a number of pointless directions.

If the admins want to replace, restructure or open the soccer forum, that's for them to decide.

You often seem more interested in having a direct go at me for the failings of the soccer forum, which you may do. But you repeatedly refuse to accept the fact that most of the descisions were made before I was a soccer mod and made by admins after consulting with the previous mods.

I can only work in the aftermath of what happened, and while some of the system, I agree, is less than ideal, we are actively reviewing things, maybe changes will happen in the closed season.

But if you continue to suggest that I made lots of bad descisions on the structure of the forum, when you should well know at this stage, is untrue, all I can do is *yawn*.

GuanYin

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i though you did all the requests?

but sure, im sure he was just mistaken about applying, coz god knows you couldnt make a mistake.

I do most of the requests, T4TF does them aswell though.

I think I admitted the chance of me making a mistake with

psi wrote:

Either you weren't actually granted access

Whether I made the mistake depends on whether he applied before I was a mod or not and whether I handled the request.

You are familiar with the concept of past and present? right? Oh and reading things properly helps.

WhiteWashMan

*yawn*

time you started being a mod. or better yet, stopped being one.