Jumpin through hoops on the soccer forum

r3nu4l

psi wrote:

Checked the access lists and there is no entry for you.

Either you weren't actually granted access or you're mistaken about applying.

If you had been granted access you would be logged in the access list. You aren't so you never had access.

Ah so my eyes decieve me then do they? Nice one, job well done Psi!!
See here.

r3nu4l wrote:

I'd like access please, I've read the rules for asking for access and the charter for the forum and everything and anything else I could see .

I have been on boards.ie for greater than 2 months time and have more than 50 posts. I will comply with the charter as requested.

Psi wrote:

granted

Nice to see you are so on top of things Perhaps a few more mods are needed on that forum after all!

Yes you were mod at the time. Yes you did grant me access. Yes you did make a mistake...but we are all human after all

/Finally, I'm not actually that bothered so I don't mind if you decide not to grant me access after all.

Tar.Aldarion

Why all the fuss about some dudes, in a different country, in shorts and getting paid too much to kick a ball around?

holy generalisations batman. talk about having a chip on your shoulder.

There are 100s of thousands of soccer fans in Ireland, prob more than any other sport, how you think you can generalise to such an extent is beyond me. Not exactly showing much maturity either!

With the system the guys have in place there is plenty of lively discussion, most of it above the 6 year old level.

I find that most of the fans that actually wear the shirts in everyday life are pricks, generalisations can be true.

tallaght01

generalisations can also be the tool of a lazy mind, Tar Aldarion. If I slap on my Sunderland shirt today, I don't see it making any difference to my behaviour. Thousands of people wear soccer jerseys and I can't imagine how you would have such a wide social circle as to know that "most" of them are "pricks", as you so eloquently put it.

I still stand by my original point. I still think that we should be allowed discuss soccer on boards without having to navigate through an unneccesarily unfriendly charter, cut and paste some nonsense and promise we won't be bold boys. It's like a combination of being back at school and being a known criminal!

I think it just needs proper moderation.

I think r3nu4l should moderate it. He's the most sensible and reasonable mod that I've had contact with on boards. Can't be that different to the bowling forum, can it? :P

Tar.Aldarion

From observational evidence alone, if you wear that sunderland shirt most days, you are 73% more likely to be a prick than other people. That rises to a shocking 89% if it is a celtic shirt, with a 68% chance of wantingto keep 'brits' out.

raido9

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Why all the fuss about some dudes, in a different country, in shorts and getting paid too much to kick a ball around?


I find that most of the fans that actually wear the shirts in everyday life are pricks, generalisations can be true.

And I've found that most people that have 17,031 posts and mod 4 forums are complete nerds with no life away from the internet, but I'm sure thats not true!

Tar.Aldarion

No, it's true. I'm at home in mothers at the moment. But when I move out, boy howdy, the life of dungeons and dragons I will lead.

r3nu4l

tallaght01 wrote:

I think it just needs proper moderation.

I think r3nu4l should moderate it. He's the most sensible and reasonable mod that I've had contact with on boards. Can't be that different to the bowling forum, can it? :P

Aw stop, I'm blushing Ha, no chance, I wouldn't be a soccer mod even if they started paying people to mod it. The abuse those guys have to put up with just wouldn't be worth it.

Although I do agree that there are striking similarities between bowling and soccer...there is a ball used in both sports, ten pins in bowling...11 players on a soccer team...prizes for winning competitions...

I'm sure you've noticed too that the bowling forum is a hive of activity, abuse and trolling and is sooo difficult to mod what with all the bannings, locked threads, edited posts and moved threads

Tar.Aldarion

Are people frequesntly called back end baby splits? Or exclaiming 'stfu noob, I have a Blue Hammer'

therecklessone

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Why all the fuss about some dudes, in a different country, in shorts and getting paid too much to kick a ball around?

We talk about football in this country as well...sometimes.

GuanYin

r3nu4l wrote:

Ah so my eyes decieve me then do they? Nice one, job well done Psi!!

Yes you were mod at the time. Yes you did grant me access. Yes you did make a mistake...but we are all human after all

/Finally, I'm not actually that bothered so I don't mind if you decide not to grant me access after all.

Well I said either/or, if you read the post I suggested that I may not have actually given you access. It happens, people make mistakes, it'll probably happen again.

Mind you, all you had to PM me with the thread to sort it out to begin with.

Anyways, it's sorted now.

Mr. Presentable

psi wrote:

All in all, it's better than it was. If you think the vouching system is better or can think of an alternative, I'm all ears.

I'll give it a go! Break the forum into three, Liverpool fans, Man Utd fans, and soccer fans. Let the two "red" fora be by invite only and the Soccer forum be open access with the restriction that posters mentioning the teams of the other two fora get a ban.

r3nu4l

psi wrote:

Well I said either/or, if you read the post I suggested that I may not have actually given you access. It happens, people make mistakes, it'll probably happen again.

Mind you, all you had to PM me with the thread to sort it out to begin with.

Anyways, it's sorted now.

Ah, I see what you were saying now, you meant that youmay not have performed the necessary mod action to grant me access not that I had never been granted permission in the access request thread (which I had been).

So when you had said 'granted' to my request I assumed that the necessary mouse-clicking actions had been taken and that there was somehow a time limit to access if I hadn't posted. I assummed I had access when I actually didn't. It's true what they say, if you assume something you make an "ass" of "u" and "me"...

All that confusion I do accept that mistakes are made, I've made them myself on other fora I mod...haven't had a chance to make a mistake here because the bowling forum isn't very contencious

psi wrote:

Either you weren't actually granted access or you're mistaken about applying.

If you had been granted access you would be logged in the access list. You aren't so you never had access.

On another note, the soccer forum is huge and highly active and difficult to mod so I'm not surprised that some mistakes are made. AH is similar but has lots more mods, any merit to having more soccer mods or would that confuse issues even more?

Pherekydes

nipplenuts wrote:

I'll give it a go! Break the forum into three, Liverpool fans, Man Utd fans, and soccer fans. Let the two "red" fora be by invite only and the Soccer forum be open access with the restriction that posters mentioning the teams of the other two fora get a ban.

Truly brilliant! Get this system going for the FA Cup Final.

GuanYin

r3nu4l wrote:

All that confusion I do accept that mistakes are made, I've made them myself on other fora I mod...haven't had a chance to make a mistake here because the bowling forum isn't very contencious

yeah, usually I do them in bulk. I may just have closed the window by mistake or I may have not hit submit.

I actually remember your application - the "I read everything I could find" bit

The other thing that's happend to me is that I have lost wireless or Regi said oops during my access granting.

In any case, I missed it, so sorry about that.

On another note, the soccer forum is huge and highly active and difficult to mod so I'm not surprised that some mistakes are made. AH is similar but has lots more mods, any merit to having more soccer mods or would that confuse issues even more?

I'm not sure, we have three mods active. I'm just in the door myself so I hadn't thought about it.

GuanYin

nipplenuts wrote:

I'll give it a go! Break the forum into three, Liverpool fans, Man Utd fans, and soccer fans. Let the two "red" fora be by invite only and the Soccer forum be open access with the restriction that posters mentioning the teams of the other two fora get a ban.

That was considered before.

Except then you'll need a Sunderland forum and then a Celtic one and then a "why do we have to support Celtic just cos we're Irish forum and then a wycombe wanderers forum. I'll be requesting a Nottingham Forest forum myself......

I dunno. I don't speak for the other mods here, I'd think team fora would be an interesting idea at least, I'm not sure if I'd wanna mod em - I'd say they'd be troll city.

Zaph

At present there are extensive threads for a number of different teams, and personally I think that works fine for most discussion. If there's something warranting a new thread for one of these teams, a manager being fired for example, it gets opened and there's no big deal about it. There's nothing to stop threads being opened for every club in Ireland and Britain, if there was a demand for each, but I don't know if there'd be enough activity to justify a whole forum per team.

gandalf

tallaght01 wrote:

I still stand by my original point. I still think that we should be allowed discuss soccer on boards without having to navigate through an unneccesarily unfriendly charter, cut and paste some nonsense and promise we won't be bold boys. It's like a combination of being back at school and being a known criminal!

As the mod who brought the original system in place I don't agree. In fact I think they have gotten too soft and the original access request system was better.

The Soccer Forum when it was originally setup was one of the best places to discuss football that I visited on the net, there was rivalry, friendly banter but also intelligent discussion about the beautiful game. Unfortunately it didn't stay that way with influx of a small group of posters whose discussion skills were "lacking". Strong moderation was in place, people were banned but the real problem we had were with the compulsives who just had to re register their accounts to get the last say or just to be disruptive on purpose.

Now we had to ask ourselves what kind of forum did we want, did we want a free for all like football365's at the time which basically was a forum where everyone shouted "My cock is bigger than yours" or did we want somewhere where people could have semi-intelligent discussions about football. We decided on the latter and introduced an access process to stop reregistereds getting back on to cause trouble. A number of users were permanently banned as well, although a couple have gotten back in based on assurances that they won't go back to their old ways.

I think it just needs proper moderation.

It did, it had the most severe of all the forums, but you cannot keep an eye on it all the time. Why should we clean up after some immature little child all the time. If you really want to post there then you can fill in a simple access request post.

I think r3nu4l should moderate it. He's the most sensible and reasonable mod that I've had contact with on boards. Can't be that different to the bowling forum, can it? :P

I have modded Soccer and currently mod Politics and am a Category moderator for the whole Society section. Soccer was and still is the most challenging forum to mod. Bowling wouldn't even touch Soccer as a comparison.

tallaght01

Gandalf,

The point I have made again and again is that none of the hoops that a member has to jump through are likely to deter somebody who is hell bent on causing trouble. In fact, presumably those with a more benign nature would be less likely to go through the process. If you're willing to re-register a second account in order to troll, then presumably you're willing to do some cut and pasting.

My issue is:

1) The charter is treating us like dickheads from the out, which puts me off straight away. The tone is unfriendly and almost accusatory in nature.

2) Skimming the charter for 2 words in italics wouldn't make me read the charter. If I was a troublemaker, I wouldn't care what the charter said anyway. I can guess that the examples of hassle being given above (threats of violence etc) are not condoned in the charter. I would imagine the perpetrators were also aware of that fact, but they just didn't care.

3) Sending the disclaimer or whatever seems to be unneccessary, as if somebody wants to cause trouble, the fact that they've sent a disclaimer won't stop them.

4) There's lots of soccer forums out there that are properly moderated and don't need all the hassle when signing up. I'm a regular contributor on sunderland sites and wolves sites, and it all works pretty well.

I suggested r3nu4l becomes a mod as an off the cuff remark. I don't know if he would have any interest. I was just making the point that he strikes me as the best mod on boards. I've never been to his bowling thread, but he's rational, sensible and always keeps his calm when the rest of us are getting wound up on the feedback forum (and also on the biology/medicine forum which, believe it or not, has it's fair share of fractiousness :P ). I don't know what a community mod is, but I reckon most of them could learn something from r3nu4l.

They're my points. It doesn't really matter now, though, I guess. When Sunderland are in the champions league after our rightful return to the premiership, I'll just stick to discussing it on www.safc.com

gandalf

tallaght01 wrote:

Gandalf,

The point I have made again and again is that none of the hoops that a member has to jump through are likely to deter somebody who is hell bent on causing trouble. In fact, presumably those with a more benign nature would be less likely to go through the process. If you're willing to re-register a second account in order to troll, then presumably you're willing to do some cut and pasting.

As I said I am against the relaxation which that is. Previously you had to have 2 existing members vouch for you. You were bold within a month, you got perm banned, they got banned. That meant people had to think twice about who they vouched for. That coupled with the fact you had to be a member of boards for over a month before posting

My issue is:

1) The charter is treating us like dickheads from the out, which puts me off straight away. The tone is unfriendly and almost accusatory in nature.

Ah bless you, I didn't realise Sunderland supporters were so delicate

2) Skimming the charter for 2 words in italics wouldn't make me read the charter. If I was a troublemaker, I wouldn't care what the charter said anyway. I can guess that the examples of hassle being given above (threats of violence etc) are not condoned in the charter. I would imagine the perpetrators were also aware of that fact, but they just didn't care.

Agree on this, as I said above didn't realise they had relaxed the access methods. I think we should go back to the old way myself[/Quote]

3) Sending the disclaimer or whatever seems to be unneccessary, as if somebody wants to cause trouble, the fact that they've sent a disclaimer won't stop them.

It does stop them saying they didn't know they were doing wrong though. Saves on alot of threads in this forum claiming the evil Soccer mod banned me cause he is a Forest Support thread.

4) There's lots of soccer forums out there that are properly moderated and don't need all the hassle when signing up. I'm a regular contributor on sunderland sites and wolves sites, and it all works pretty well.

Single team sites really aren't comparable to the soccer forum on boards, as I said around the time these measures were originally put in place Soccer365 would have had a generalised forum which was a pile of ****e. There are a lot of dynamics and rivalries on Boards. Next year we will see the return of Newcastle vs Sunderland which I welcome.

I suggested r3nu4l becomes a mod as an off the cuff remark. I don't know if he would have any interest. I was just making the point that he strikes me as the best mod on boards. I've never been to his bowling thread, but he's rational, sensible and always keeps his calm when the rest of us are getting wound up on the feedback forum (and also on the biology/medicine forum which, believe it or not, has it's fair share of fractiousness :P ). I don't know what a community mod is, but I reckon most of them could learn something from r3nu4l.

TBH I haven't noticed r3nu4l but thats a good thing, I normally watch out for troublemakers.

At the end of the day (couldn't be a soccer thread without the phrases) its about you pulling your socks up and getting onside otherwise we will be showing you a red card and you won't be playing with our ball.

(ok I'll get me coat now )

They're my points. It doesn't really matter now, though, I guess. When Sunderland are in the champions league after our rightful return to the premiership, I'll just stick to discussing it on www.safc.com

Now why would I want to do that I much prefer http://www.irishgunners.com/

Thanx 4 The Fish

I too was involved as a mod when all of the crap kicked off. Gandalf and Devore worked out a very good system of sponsorships and it worked very well. What happened though was that every man and his dog, (alot like the OP) complained that as a system we were too restrictive, Talla, Kdjacl and I (against Devores advice, who predicted that the easing of the restrictions in place would bring back in a geansaí load of muppets again) got rid of the sponsorship, introduced a three strikes system and made people jump through a couple of different hoops (2 months fifty posts read the charter, type of stuff) and it seems to be going reasonably alright. Bannings are down, muppetry is down and most of the complaints we get are from people who cannot get access straight away.

I had a whole lot more to this post but really I don't want to stir anything up, enough has gone on in this thread alone.

gandalf

Feckin pinko liberal soccer mods :rolleyes:

Thanx 4 The Fish

Yeah well we were gonna have a vote but all of the politics bods couldn't decide which was the standard boards voting system and by the time the First past the post/PR debate finished there would not be any of the founders of boards left to care..

GuanYin

This is the first time in boards.ie history that I've been referred to as "liberal".

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Yeah well we were gonna have a vote but all of the politics bods couldn't decide which was the standard boards voting system and by the time the First past the post/PR debate finished there would not be any of the founders of boards left to care..

You know I happened by the Politiky forum this week - dear jesus, You know, you can get away with annexing another country in the Politics forums over here (US), people in the Politics forum are calling for Bertie's head cos he bought a house off a mate on the cheap.... tough, tough crowd.....

gandalf

Democracy its over-rated Boards is a dictatorship you know that.

BTW DeVore has added your name to the list for going against him T4TF

Thanx 4 The Fish

gandalf wrote:

BTW DeVore has added your name to the list for going against him T4TF

Oh bugger....

r3nu4l

gandalf wrote:

TBH I haven't noticed r3nu4l but thats a good thing, I normally watch out for troublemakers.

You've never noticed me?? Wah, Wah, Wah!

I'd just like to clear something up here quickly enough, I wouldn't even dream of volunteering as a soccer mod and would turn it down if offered. There are plenty of the busier fora I would mod if asked but soccer isn't one of them. I've nothing against soccer but it wouldn't be my main interest.

Thanks for the vote of confidence tallaght01, although I have to say I do sometimes make a dick of myself by taking some things too literally/seriously if I don't know a users posting style

Gandalf is right too, modding the bowling forum is a pleasure* that has actually not required any warnings/bans/locked threads thus far, long may it continue Soccer on the other hand is very busy for the mods which is why I suggested that more mods might be a good idea to relieve the mods a bit. On the other hand there are probably down sides to that idea that the soccer mods would be aware of.

*I have had a feedback thread dedicated to a modding decision I made on boards.org.uk so I know a bit about what it's like to annoy someone with a modding decision.

/psi, thanks for sorting that out. Thankfully these days there is a bit less "regi says oops" with the new servers

GuanYin

r3nu4l wrote:

/psi, thanks for sorting that out.

No worries, though you could PM me in future so we can have a nicer rapport about it

Thankfully these days there is a bit less "regi says oops" with the new servers

*ahem* yesterday *cough*

r3nu4l

psi wrote:

No worries, though you could PM me in future so we can have a nicer rapport about it

Agreed

oleras

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Oh bugger....

is that the punishment ?

Thanx 4 The Fish

I sure hope not..