Dodgy candidate in Dublin South East

Snickers Man

Reading in yesterday's Times that the candidates in Dublin South East include one Noel O'Gara, I went on to the electionsireland.org website and find that this person is running as an independent in the following constituencies for this election.


2007 30th Dail Dublin South East Candidate
2007 30th Dail Laoighis Offaly Candidate
2007 30th Dail Longford Westmeath Candidate
2007 30th Dail Roscommon Leitrim South Candidate


I am assuming, and will stand corrected and ask you to disregard the rest of this post if I'm wrong, that this is the same Noel O'Gara who claims to own Dartmouth Square near Rathmines and who wants to be allowed either develop it as if it were just another piece of development real estate (which it clearly isn't) or who wants to be compensated by the council who have issued him with a compulsory purchase order as if it were.

By his own admission, he purchased what he claims to be the title to the land (my understanding is that this is disputed which was how he came to acquire it in the first place) for less than euro 10,000 in late 2005/early 2006 and the Council have offered him euro 100,000 to take it off his hands and keep it as a public park.

Not satisfied with fleecing the Dublin taxpayer for 10 times his original outlay, he is claiming that the offer is derisory and demanding that "his" land be valued in terms of millions.

To put the generous nature of the council's current offer into perspective, those of you who have recently seen their SSIA's mature, should calculate how much you paid in over five years and how much you got out. It might be of the order of 50% over five years, which is being described by any financial adviser as an unbeatably generous return on investment. Which indeed it is.

This guy is turning his nose up at a 900% return over one year (or two now that he's been whinging for so long) and claiming he is being ripped off.


O'Gara has delivered nothing of value, has contributed nothing to the area and seeks only to profit exorbitantly from the council's misreading of the legal situation concerning Dartmouth Square's freehold. The person picking up the tab for him is the taxpayer. ie us.


He will probably gain some votes in the rural constituencies where he is standing because the farmers there want minimal regulation of planning when it comes to cashing in on their land. The people of Dublin however, need every bit of public green space they can get their hands on and should NOT have to put a huge hole in their public-spending just to accommodate a shyster.

I suspect he will not canvass in Dublin at all but will hope to get some votes by stealth from people who like to tick all the boxes on the ballot paper or who might think he's Ronan O'Gara's brother. (he isn't)


Please please please don't vote for this guy, if you value your local environment at all.

I can't ask you to vote for anybody else. Those who want to tell Sinn Fein to feck off can vote in this constituency for Theresa Uzell, who claims the IRA shot her brother and who is standing just to be a thorn in their side. We don't have a 'tell O'Gara to sod off' candidate.

Just please ignore him for the good of the area.

lightening

Yeah, he is nuts. Has the cheek to bring up the men who lost their lives in the 1916 rising, claiming they died for the rights of Irish men and women to do what they want with their land... He brings up these Irish heroes for his underhand money making scam! Imagine I wanted to open a tile shop in my back garden in the North East suburbs, I really don't know why he thinks he should be treated any different.

Snickers Man

lightening wrote:

Yeah, he is nuts.

He's not, unfortunately. He's deadly serious and doesn't care who he screws over.

I think he thinks the rest of us are a bunch of idiots, but that's not the same thing.

arybvtcw0eolkf

We can discuss politics in this forum now?.

Snickers Man

Very local issue though, I think you'll agree.

In fact when Mr O'Gara was in the news a while back there was a thread in the Politics forum and several people from outside the Pale suggested it should be moved in here.

the thread, that is, not the Pale.


Can't please everybody.

Snickers Man

In fact, if you read to the last post in this thread you will see that the Mods forcibly moved it from the Politics forum into the Dublin city one.

ODS

Snickers Man wrote:

he's Ronan O'Gara's brother

OMG! I'll have to give him my no.1 now!:p

In all seriousness, he's not the brightest either (and thus even less deserving of a vote) if this article is anything to go by. A very odd cnut altogether.

The Phoenix Magazine wrote:

From Phoenix Magazine, page 8, Oct 6, 2006:


Noel O’ Gara’s Reward

AMIDST the controversy over Dartmouth Square, speculation has been rife as to the amount that Noel O’ Gara may get if the compulsory purchase order (CPO) goes ahead – a debate that has not been enlightened by local TD and justice minister Michael McDowell circulating a letter suggesting that the land may be of a value in the region of €100 Million. McDowell later claimed that this was a misprint, and that he had meant only €1 Million.

However, the new Tánaiste appears to have overlooked the fact that compensation paid to owners who have their land CPO’ed is never based on “hope value”, but is in fact based on the value of its use at time of acquisition.

Known as the “Pointe Gourde Principle”, the legal basis for this stems from a 1947 case that was adjudicated in the House of Lords. In short it means that if somebody owns a sweet shop making 10 per annum sited on an acre of land in a city centre, if the property is CPO’ed, the owner gets compensated only on the basis of loss of commercial value at the time, i.e. in that case primarily on the €10 per annum lost. In this case, O’ Gara owns a park that was freely accessible without charge – meaning that the “O” in O Gara may yet come to mean “Zero” vis-à-vis Dartmouth Square.

Back in 1998 Navan-based developer Eugene O’ Connor pulled a similar stunt with Belgrave Square in Monkstown. In that instance, O’ Connor was reported to be looking at a variety of uses – such as opening dog kennels etc. Promptly the residents made O’ Connor an offer and it is believed he walked with a tidy profit.

However since then the introduction of the 2000 Planning Act changed the rules, in particular with provisions such as section 212 which make it a lot easier for a local authority to enact a CPO.

Had O’ Gara played his hand more shrewdly, and not been so greedy, he could perhaps have applied to build a residence in a corner of the Square – and probably would have got it! Under Z9 zoning, which is used to demarcate amenity and recreational areas, there is a clause that permits a residence for a green-keeper’s house or some such. In this case that may have allowed him to build an exclusive “Park Attendants Lodge” – which subsequently on the open market may have fetched anywhere between 2 – 5 Million – instead of which Noel “Zero” Gara may yet end up with just a hefty legal bill. How very unfortunate.

PeakOutput

he is a wierdo but if he does legitimetley own the land then he is dead right to want more than 100K.............id love to know the circumstances of how he got it for 10K but assuming its all legit then i dont see why he shouldnt get the proper value from it and thats alot more than 100K imo

the land in stephens green is extremely valuable the fact its a park does not change that i dont see how its any different here

mikemac

It's only worth millions if he gets planning permission for commerical or residental development. Since that is never going to happen, the land is not worth that much at all.

I come from a rural area and feel no empathy with the residents in the area and kinda admire O'Gara in a strange sort of way.

However, the Council should CPO it and pay him double what he paid.
He makes a profit and everyone wins.

Wishbone Ash

micmclo wrote:

and kinda admire O'Gara in a strange sort of way

Yes, he caught the Council snoozing. If it were a private company, heads would roll!

Snickers Man

micmclo wrote:

It's only worth millions if he gets planning permission for commerical or residental development. Since that is never going to happen, the land is not worth that much at all.

I come from a rural area and feel no empathy with the residents in the area and kinda admire O'Gara in a strange sort of way.

However, the Council should CPO it and pay him double what he paid.
He makes a profit and everyone wins.

I'd just about go along with that. Pay him 20 grand and tell him he's done well for himself. Don't push it.

Punchbowl

He pops up here too...

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=81958

That's how you get votes, isn't it?

tampopo

I sympathise with Mr. O' Gara.

The DCC are smarting cos he's got the land from under their noses.
I'm sick of Pat Kenny doing an item on this subject, every week it seems, about the monstrosity of building on a park. Ha, it makes me laugh when DCC want to build 4 storey buildings on Lansdowne Valley Park in Drimnagh, and want to build over Pearse Park in Crumlin.

There must be a couple of producers of his radio programme, or the late late that live on Dartmouth Sq. the way he goes on and on and on and on about it.

One law for the Dublin 6/4 parks and another for the Dublin 12 parks.

what the heck was DCC doing? I agree with previous posters... asleep

Snickers Man

tampopo wrote:

I sympathise with Mr. O' Gara.

The DCC are smarting cos he's got the land from under their noses.
I'm sick of Pat Kenny doing an item on this subject, every week it seems, about the monstrosity of building on a park. Ha, it makes me laugh when DCC want to build 4 storey buildings on Lansdowne Valley Park in Drimnagh, and want to build over Pearse Park in Crumlin.

Well that's bloody disgraceful. So what's your attitude? Stop the bastards from ruining the little green space we have left in this city or just sit back and say "Well, I don't mind as long as it happens to those feckers in d4/d6?"

It saddens me that there isn't a groundswell of support around the city for people who say "Let's have amenities, basic ones like a bit of grass to run around, kick a ball on, fly a kite, read the paper during lunch break etc etc. "

We are not the most publicly spirited nation around, are we?

One law for the Dublin 6/4 parks and another for the Dublin 12 parks.

I think that's just a whinge TBH. Fight your corner for D12 and I'll support you. I don;t mean that I'll come out and chain myself to the railings, but likewise I'm not going to look for stereotypical excuses to say "Serves the bastards right"

what the heck was DCC doing? I agree with previous posters... asleep

I'm not defending the council. But just because they ****ed up doesn;t mean O'Gara should be let get away with ripping off the taxpayer. That's us you;re talking about.

Punchbowl

Dathmouth square is more than just an open space however, it is a vital part of the arcitechtural make-up of the surrounding area. To develop it, which won't happen, would be destroying the integrity of the Victorian plan and would once again, deny Dubliners another part of their built heritage.

I symphatise with the Pearse Park and Lansdowne valley developments but they do not have the same merit as the above, in this context

They are however, valuable green spaces. Not only in monetary terms, but in social terms also. And they should not be destroyed, but the fact is, they are going to build somewhere, and I'd rather it was on an under utilised green space than an active residents square that adds to the amenity value of the local area..

Miguel_Sanchez

Noel O'Gara is never going to be elected. The guy is a money grubbing little man. And I think only other money grubbing ****s will vote for him (actually that could be a large part of the Irish population!)

Heard him interviewed on the Last Word last year and he also claimed to know the real identity of the Yorkshire Ripper (he's written a book about it). Listening to an interview about Dartmouth Square slide into a conversation about how the Yorkshire Ripper used to work for O'Gara and how the guy in prison for the murders is a copycat was entertaining.

fly_agaric

Punchbowl wrote:

And they should not be destroyed, but the fact is, they are going to build somewhere

I do get a kick out of the media-amplified squeals whenever negative "development" (private, council??) of some sort is mooted for D4 or Howth or Dalkey or whatever-wealthy-area-yer-havin-yerself. I'm sure that the money of people living in those places helps to finance things which become the bane of more impotent NIMBYS in some other less-blessed areas.

Never, ever shít where you eat!:)

[edited for clarity]

Snickers Man

fly_agaric wrote:

I do get a kick out of the media-amplified squeals whenever negative "development" (private, council??) of some sort is mooted for D4 or Howth or Dalkey or whatever-wealthy-area-yer-havin-yerself. I'm sure that the money of people living in those places helps to finance things which become the bane of more impotent NIMBYS in some other less-blessed areas.

Well mine doesn't because I don't have any. So that's your argument shot out of the water.

Actually, the only argument that people who support O'Gara seem to be able to come up with is that it's good to stick it to the wealthy people of Dublin 4/6. Which is the argument of a small-minded bigot.



BTW if you want to make money out of O'Gara, have a flutter on him gaining the LOWEST first preference vote in the country. Paddy Power is offering sevens on his Dublin South East showing being the most embarassingly tiny vote of this election, according to the Times today.

Punchbowl

Hmm.. I think he might have a SERIOUS contender in this guy

Noel Ivory

fly_agaric

Snickers Man wrote:

Well mine doesn't because I don't have any. So that's your argument shot out of the water.

What - no interest/stake in any properties? Maybe some of those new apartments springing up all over the country like, well, like mushrooms? The ones built to house our new rentier classes + make a tidy investor profit which are usually fought against by the areas involved!
The isolated case of "you" does not shoot my "argument" (it was more of an observation) out of the water.

Snickers Man wrote:

Actually, the only argument that people who support O'Gara seem to be able to come up with is that it's good to stick it to the wealthy people of Dublin 4/6. Which is the argument of a small-minded bigot.

I don't support O'Gara.

Snickers Man

fly_agaric wrote:

What - no interest/stake in any properties?

Apart from the one I live in, no.

fly_agaric wrote:

I don't support O'Gara.

Good. Cos I have him backed at sevens with Paddy Power to get the lowest first preference in the country. G'wan ya good thing!!!

Snickers Man

...and it's looking good so far. Only 27 votes for the little turd.
How come he got so many? Who were the 27 muppets who voted for him.

The lowest first preference of any constituency whose first count is in so far. Mind you, some gob****e in Limerick ran him close with 28!!!

Wonder whose environment he had screwed up;)

eoghan.geraghty

Snickers Man wrote:

... Who were the 27 muppets who voted for him.

Probably the family of itinerants he let park up in the square:D

Snickers Man

Curses!!

Some tulip in Westmeath only got 24 votes. Pipped by three lousy votes.

Oh well. It's worth it to see that O'Gara came bottom of the poll in three constituencies.

mikemac

You can run in more than one constitunecy?

What would happen if he won three times?
Does he get three votes in the Dail?

Snickers Man

Good question. Not sure. You can certainly run in more than one constituency. Whether you can represent more than one I don't know.