Why do some Irish Liverpool fans buy The Sun?

super_furry

KdjaCL wrote:

The reason numerous bodies couldnt be identified is because their wallets were stolen. That did happen.


kdjac

That's an outrageously inflamitory claim. You should either offer some evidence to prove it or retract it immediately.

I'm stunned that a moderator could make such an outlandish claim over what is still a very sensitive issue.

KdjaCL

super_furry wrote:

That's an outrageously inflamitory claim. You should either offer some evidence to prove it or retract it immediately.

I'm stunned that a moderator could make such an outlandish claim over what is still a very sensitive issue.

I didnt make it the BBC/Sun did several times, the plain fact that victims who left their houses with wallets could not be identified as the wallets were missing. Hence family members having to travel to identify them caused excess stress which wouldnt have occured had their wallets not been stolen.

The hillsborough 96 shown on the BBC numerous times documents this (the one before the cops took the blame).

So get outraged at them and the fact it happened.

kdjac

super_furry

Again. Either show some evidence to this 'plain fact' as you call it or withdraw it.

The Sun have since acknowledged that the story was completely innacurate, and I don't believe the BBC ever made such claims.

KdjaCL

super_furry wrote:

Again. Either show some evidence to this 'plain fact' as you call it or withdraw it.

The Sun have since acknowledged that the story was completely innacurate, and I don't believe the BBC ever made such claims.

Why is it so hard to believe? It is fact that people could not be identified! The BBC interviewed families who had to travel to Sheffield to identify bodies as they had no ID on them but left with some. Because you choose believe otherwise does not make it not fact or not true.

People had wallets stolen by who is irrelevant, but the fact remains as i posted "The reason numerous bodies couldnt be identified is because their wallets were stolen."

Ask the BBC for all the shows they did on it if you want backed up fact, i dont need to as i already seen them.

kdjac

super_furry

KdjaCL wrote:

People had wallets stolen by who is irrelevant, but the fact remains as i posted "The reason numerous bodies couldnt be identified is because their wallets were stolen."

Ask the BBC for all the shows they did on it if you want backed up fact, i dont need to as i already seen them.

kdjac

Facts my arse. If they're facts show some evidence supporting them.

Honestly, I'm not even going to bother replying to you anymore because your ignorance is so sickening that were I to voice my true feelings on your false claims, your spreading of damaging lies about survivors of a tragedy and your lack of a shred of evidence to prove them, I'd be banned straight away.

Do yourself a favour and educate yourself www.contrast.org/hillsborough

KdjaCL

Show some evidence ? How about a memorial website that takes glee in the death of others like the one you linked to.

Williams is no longer at the Post; in fact I have some vague recollection of him dying some time ago. Whatever, good riddance to a journalist who wouldn't recognise truth if it jumped up and bit him on the arse.

You seem to have trouble with the issue surrounding the victims who could not be identified, care to share your facts about how they could not be identified?


kdjac

zAbbo

KdjaCL wrote:

I didnt make it the BBC/Sun did several times, the plain fact that victims who left their houses with wallets could not be identified as the wallets were missing. Hence family members having to travel to identify them caused excess stress which wouldnt have occured had their wallets not been stolen.

The hillsborough 96 shown on the BBC numerous times documents this (the one before the cops took the blame).

So get outraged at them and the fact it happened.

kdjac

I'm surprised you're throwing up such utter bollocks, Kelvin MacKenzie was in charge of the sun, and all of his alleged incidents have been refuted at this stage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_MacKenzie#Coverage_of_the_Hillsborough_disaster

The Press Council described the allegations unequivocally as "lies". The official government enquiry into the disaster dismissed the allegation that drunken Liverpool fans had been responsible for the disaster and concluded that inadequate crowd control and errors by the police had been the cause of the tragedy. Various investigations conclusively disproved most if not all of The Sun's allegations - when clothing from each of the victims was recovered, none had any trace of urine other than those who had been found to have wet themselves during the crush (this also not surprisingly occurred with some fans who survived having been pulled from the terraces); all wallets, items of jewellery and significant personal possessions of each of the victims was quickly accounted for (thus disproving the allegation of pick-pocketing); no female victim was found to have been sexually abused; and while it has been established that a number of Liverpool supporters verbally abused policemen who they apparently held responsible for the disaster, no policemen, ambulance men or rescue worker have ever come forward to claim that they were physically attacked by a fan.

KdjaCL

Why are people naive enough to not believe there are bastards who would do something like this. Ffs a woman on o Connell street who was knocked down had her purse stolen as she lay dying and us irish are the salt of the earth no more than a month ago.

The fact is as i have said bodies could not be identified as they had wallets missing, thats not hearsay conjecture or on something on a wiki its fact! as stated by families in numerous BBC documentaries on the subject. If Liverpool fans chose not to believe such a thing wouldnt happen well so be it. Fact remains people could not be identified due to wallets missing.


kdjac

LuckyLloyd

KdjaCL wrote:

Why are people naive enough to not believe there are bastards who would do something like this. Ffs a woman on o Connell street who was knocked down had her purse stolen as she lay dying and us irish are the salt of the earth no more than a month ago.

The fact is as i have said bodies could not be identified as they had wallets missing, thats not hearsay conjecture or on something on a wiki its fact! as stated by families in numerous BBC documentaries on the subject. If Liverpool fans chose not to believe such a thing wouldnt happen well so be it. Fact remains people could not be identified due to wallets missing.


kdjac

You aren't fit to be a mod IMO given your posts in this thread so far. And you can ban me for that if you like.

super_furry

LuckyLloyd wrote:

You aren't fit to be a mod IMO given your posts in this thread so far.

Agreed.

KdjaCL

LuckyLloyd wrote:

You aren't fit to be a mod IMO given your posts in this thread so far. And you can ban me for that if you like.

Why because i have an opinion based on facts presented!!!


kdjac

copacetic

KdjaCL wrote:

Fact remains people could not be identified due to wallets missing.


kdjac

you are now backtracking while trying to make out you are right? it's sickening. You said the suns allegation was true above. Their allegation was that liverpool fans stole the wallets from other fans lying dead.


Now you are saying it is just a fact that the wallets were missing. Which is about a million miles from making what the sun said true.
I posted back in reply to your stupidity earlier in the thread but needless to say you ignored it until someone reported your post and now you are back making more things up and changing your story.

KdjaCL

KdjaCL wrote:

The reason numerous bodies couldnt be identified is because their wallets were stolen. That did happen.


kdjac

Really? That is what i said its my 1st post on this thread. The fact the bodies could not be identified is becuase they had their wallets stolen. Well the wallet was missing thats why ...do you not get that part?

Its that simple.



kdjac

super_furry

copacetic wrote:

Now you are saying it is just a fact that the wallets were missing. Which is about a million miles from making what the sun said true.

And again, he hasn't produced a single shred of evidence to back up this 'fact' - a word that's being thrown around without anything to back it up other that 'I saw it on the BBC once.'

Trolling like this shouldn't be accepted by anyone, much less a moderator.

KdjaCL

super_furry wrote:

And again, he hasn't produced a single shred of evidence to back up this 'fact' - a word that's being thrown around without anything to back it up other that 'I saw it on the BBC once.'

Back up that the wallets were not stolen if your on such a crusade for the truth, back up how people could not be identified?

Im basing my fact on interviews with families in the documentaries shown on BBC within days of the event and follow ups (all before the police accepted the blame).





kdjac

Guy:Incognito

KdjaCL wrote:

Really? That is what i said its my 1st post on this thread. The fact the bodies could not be identified is becuase they had their wallets stolen. Well the wallet was missing thats why ...do you not get that part?

Its that simple.



kdjac

I rarely carry my wallet. If I had been of of the dead, you would be making th eassumption my wallet was stolen when I wouldnt have been carrying one in the first place. Theres lots of ways wallets can go missing and the last thing someone thinks abiut when tryign to resussetate (sp?) someone or keep them alive is making sure they take their jacket off carefully so their possesions dont fall out. Plus I havnt heard much from the families re:missing possesions. Not saying nothing was heard, I just didnt hear it.

copacetic

KdjaCL wrote:

Really? That is what i said its my 1st post on this thread. The fact the bodies could not be identified is becuase they had their wallets stolen. Well the wallet was missing thats why ...do you not get that part?

Its that simple.



kdjac

it's not that simple, now you are just plain lying.That was not your first post on this thread. Your first post in this thread says:

KdjaCL wrote:

Which part? they printed 2 headlines that caused outrage, one true the other not.


kdjac

these are the headlines:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/67/Hillsborough_disaster_Sun.jpg/250px-Hillsborough_disaster_Sun.jpg

So you said liverpool fans picked pockets of victims. Are you now going to take that back or are the lies, half truths and made up 'facts' going to continue?

copacetic

super_furry wrote:

And again, he hasn't produced a single shred of evidence to back up this 'fact' - a word that's being thrown around without anything to back it up other that 'I saw it on the BBC once.'

Trolling like this shouldn't be accepted by anyone, much less a moderator.

well thats true, but even if you do accept the 'fact' he is making up it wouldn't make any difference as it wouldn't make what the sun said true.
I'm not sure what you can do about someone who will just change their story and make up 'facts' without anything to back them up..

zAbbo

KdjaCL wrote:

Really? That is what i said its my 1st post on this thread. The fact the bodies could not be identified is becuase they had their wallets stolen. Well the wallet was missing thats why ...do you not get that part?

Its that simple.



kdjac

You're stating that as 'fact' not your opinion, and claiming it was one of the BBC docu's, surely if it was factual enough to include on a BBC documentary there would be some kind of online documentation, ya know, especially as it's fact, almost common knowledge in the way you've passed it off.

I've seen the BBC docu's as well, and I can't recall anything about stolen wallets, apart from a references to The Sun

whiskeyman

Just out of interest, should Liverpool fans feel uneasy about reading or watching anything from the Sun's owners (Murdochs News Corp) then?
Did it ever spread, or is it solely isolated on The Sun?
Now that McKenzie (Sun Ed at the time) is long gone, why is the boycott still alive? McKenzie still refuses to apologise (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3r2OGq0qtI), but the paper has http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1255987,00.html


Edited: put links in

KdjaCL

Stekelly wrote:

Not saying nothing was heard, I just didnt hear it.

Sense of Deja vu about this thread? Except with new posters?

kdjac

KdjaCL

zabbo wrote:

You're stating that as 'fact' not your opinion, and claiming it was one of the BBC docu's, surely if it was factual enough to include on a BBC documentary there would be some kind of online documentation, ya know, especially as it's fact, almost common knowledge in the way you've passed it off.

I've seen the BBC docu's as well, and I can't recall anything about stolen wallets, apart from a references to The Sun

Apart from the type of common knowledge fact thats being passed off by others? How do you differentiate the sun? a wiki page? a BBC panorama type program? a contrast site?

This thread was done to death about 3 years ago except the BBC program was linked too then.


kdjac

Mr. Presentable

Some posters here really need to get a bit of perspective. None of you can say with any certainty whether what the Sun printed was true or not. That's pretty much the only fact here. Just because the Sun said it doesn't make it true. Just because copacetic says so doesn't make it untrue.

super_furry

nipplenuts wrote:

Some posters here really need to get a bit of perspective. None of you can say with any certainty whether what the Sun printed was true or not. That's pretty much the only fact here. Just because the Sun said it doesn't make it true. Just because copacetic says so doesn't make it untrue.

Yes we can. We can, with certainty say they were lies. The Sun itself admitted as much and apologised (although the apology was tainted by digs at the people of Liverpool). How anyone can claim otjherwise is beyond me, but there are some very strange people about.

GuanYin

I think this has moved away from anything to do with soccer and has more to do with poor reporting and humanities.

Closed!