To Grind Or Not To Grind.

Darren1o1

Darren1o1 wrote:

Who says we are not? I have a girlfriend in the US doing primary/special needs teaching and she seems to think our system is pretty good there. There, what sort of education and teachers you get depends on where you live. Here schools get are funded directly in the most part by the goverment as are the teachers wages and therefore there is quite a decent balance across the country by international standards. I think a challenge could be getting teachers who have a genuine interest in the subject and who can relate to students and it is those who make the real difference.

The leaving cert is used by some international schools as the education of choice apposed to the A levels due to its broader nature and reasonable high level. In the us your grades depend(for most specific subjects) on the teacher in question and therefore is not independant. Also there is not an independant body to choose who get what place elsewhere quite like the CAO. I have this arguement with many of my international friends and as a cause they regard our system quite highly. Don't get me wrong the leaving cert is not perfect, but it is better by a long shot than most alternatives out there.

There will always be inequalities but it is just a matter of minimising them.

see http://redenclave.wordpress.com/2005/06/18/school-in-libya-opts-for-the-leaving-cert/

dan719

Darren1o1 wrote:

Who says we are not? I have a girlfriend in the US doing primary/special needs teaching and she seems to think our system is pretty good there. There, what sort of education and teachers you get depends on where you live. Here schools get are funded directly in the most part by the goverment as are the teachers wages and therefore there is quite a decent balance across the country by international standards. I think a challenge could be getting teachers who have a genuine interest in the subject and who can relate to students and it is those who make the real difference.

The leaving cert is used by some international schools as the education of choice apposed to the A levels due to its broader nature and reasonable high level. In the us your grades depend(for most specific subjects) on the teacher in question and therefore is not independant. Also there is not an independant body to choose who get what place elsewhere quite like the CAO. I have this arguement with many of my international friends and as a cause they regard our system quite highly. Don't get me wrong the leaving cert is not perfect, but it is better by a long shot than most alternatives out there.

There will always be inequalities but it is just a matter of minimising them.

It is used by one international school in the capital of Libya, at least according to wikipedia. And to throw this question out there, is a broad education at leavng cert level a good thing? Or would a earlier specialisation be ideal, or at least be possible. When replying bear in mind the fun people have in laughing at those doing arts degrees!:D

Darren1o1

dan719 wrote:

It is used by one international school in the capital of Libya, at least according to wikipedia. And to throw this question out there, is a broad education at leavng cert level a good thing? Or would a earlier specialisation be ideal, or at least be possible. When replying bear in mind the fun people have in laughing at those doing arts degrees!:D

I think a broad education is good to a point. The leaving cert allows you to specialise also, ie i did physic, french, geography and engineering which helped me in engineering(mainly the physics and engineering did:D ) in uni. So i think it gives the best of both. The is alot of questions at the moment on A levels and of the standard of math and english of students attending university.

Mary-Ellen

lilmizzme wrote:

No you missed my point...you say you're not in it for the money, but you're sure as hell not in it for the good of the students

You're making unbelievable generalisations just because I'm paid for something doesn't mean I don't care about the good of the students

through the same generalisations you'd be implying nurses don't care about patients cause they get paid, you're doctor really wouldn't be bothered if you got well or not once the money kept coming in and your teachers don't care cause their paid.

I do grinds on a one to one basis, I get to know the students and genuinely care how they do.

I didn't mean to be that sarcastic

Assez Bien

Our L.C. is way 2 broad n varied i mean you may only use 3 out of ur 7 subjects in college, i'v known people to use none!! I also believe our college system is a disgrace compared to even the U.k, the points system is turning people away from 3rd level education

for e.g. i have a physio place waiting for me in a very high standard uni who are workin closely wit athletes competing in the 2012 olympics in london, wat do i need 2 get in there 3 B1 grades, a mere 255 points compared to 585 over ere in a college that may not give u the experience i wil receive.

The Irish Education system is a complete n utter farce as i hav explained earlier in this thread.......teachers couldn't give 2 f***s wat their students achieve jus as long as they receive a bonus nor cud grind teachers jus as long as they get their pay packet, we hav become such a self absorped, ignorant nation!

Darren1o1

Assez Bien wrote:

Our L.C. is way 2 broad n varied i mean you may only use 3 out of ur 7 subjects in college, i'v known people to use none!! I also believe our college system is a disgrace compared to even the U.k, the points system is turning people away from 3rd level education

for e.g. i have a physio place waiting for me in a very high standard uni who are workin closely wit athletes competing in the 2012 olympics in london, wat do i need 2 get in there 3 B1 grades, a mere 255 points compared to 585 over ere in a college that may not give u the experience i wil receive.

The Irish Education system is a complete n utter farce as i hav explained earlier in this thread.......teachers couldn't give 2 f***s wat their students achieve jus as long as they receive a bonus nor cud grind teachers jus as long as they get their pay packet, we hav become such a self absorped, ignorant nation!

Do you have much experience with other systems such as the A levels on which to compare to the leaving cert? Have you been to an irish or UK university?

Ps. as i am aware most UK universities ask for 5 subjects with certain grades. Usually when they have a quote 3 subjects it is for A levels, which are worth something like double the points of the leaving and are therefore not comparable.

lilmizzme

I don't agree....I think the points system is the only thing that prevents the country becoming a Banana Republic, free from corruption and back handers and contacts getting you to the places you need to go...

At least with our system, no one knows whether you live in a mansion in Foxrock, or a council flat in Darndale (apologies to anyone not from Dublin), if you want to get your place in college you can...I much prefer the anonymous system we have....I don't like the A-level system in England at all. They have to more or less make up their minds about their future Uni courses when they're around 15...it's far too specialised. What happens if you choose say, Eng. lit, French and Italian say, but then you decide you want to be a doctor. You're pretty much screwed out of any medical related courses...

I know that similar happens here, like if a student didnt pick Chemistry, but at least s/he has a chance to go into nursing or some sciency based fireld with their other subjects...

Corruptedmorals

Pfft, it's something like £3000 per year at a Uk uni, some people end up paying back their student loans for up to a decade.

The UCAS system is based on grade prediction, WTF, though they do take your actual grades as well, BUT also your GCSE grades. What if you get on the wrong side of a teacher and s/he predicts you a C when you need at least a B? Nevermind how much a grade can improve between November (around then) to May.

I think it's better to have a broad range of subjects then 3, which they pick at 15. A bit unfair to be basically deciding your future at 15. I know plenty of people doing A-Levels, and also the Scottish higher system, A-Levels are pretty much based on coursework, which is easily plagiarised, and the Scottish Highers don't go into detail.

I do like the way English is split up though. Too much on the Eng course here.

Darren1o1

lilmizzme wrote:

I don't agree....I think the points system is the only thing that prevents the country becoming a Banana Republic, free from corruption and back handers and contacts getting you to the places you need to go...

At least with our system, no one knows whether you live in a mansion in Foxrock, or a council flat in Darndale (apologies to anyone not from Dublin), if you want to get your place in college you can...I much prefer the anonymous system we have....I don't like the A-level system in England at all. They have to more or less make up their minds about their future Uni courses when they're around 15...it's far too specialised. What happens if you choose say, Eng. lit, French and Italian say, but then you decide you want to be a doctor. You're pretty much screwed out of any medical related courses...

I know that similar happens here, like if a student didnt pick Chemistry, but at least s/he has a chance to go into nursing or some sciency based fireld with their other subjects...

Great point. I think it is the independant nature of the leaving cert and the education system as a whole that sets us above most countries. What mammy and daddy drive or who they are doesn't matter, just your progress..

OctavarIan

fuinneamh wrote:

In general unless your having trouble with understanding a concept the leaving cert is all about rote learning and practicing exam questions.

True to an extent. There are subjects where that won't always pull through though, like english for example.

fuinneamh wrote:

There many examples of students who have been getting remedial aid in school all the way up achieving their goals because they worked their asses off. One success was passing his leaving cert to get to kildalton, another guy got over 450 even though he has had reading problems all his life.The reason most people are disapointed at the end of the year in my school is that they doss supervised study or spend most of the day in class with the career guidance teacher. So how can you not say that how well you do in the leaving cert is down to laziness?

Well to be honest because it's arrogant and narrow-minded. How high over 450 did he get, and how did he get it? What subjects did he do? One of my old classmates didn't do much work at all, but he cruised through the LC. He was like an information sponge, it was scary. To say that LC results are linked only with laziness is saying that everyone has the same intellectual strength and academic qualities, but the ones that don't do well only do so because they were lazy. If that's what you're trying to say well then consider our discussion over because you're living in another world that I want no part of.

fuinneamh wrote:

Of course there are the wild exceptions that illness can occur on the day or a tragic death near the time of the leaving cert but in general you can't say your result is down to anything other than laziness.

Of course I can, come back to reality and I'll tell you.

JC 2K3 wrote:

Bollocks.

...? Bollocks? Wow you've won the arguement right there. Are you seriously trying to compare text-based learning with face-to-face learning? rolling on floor laughing

Assez Bien

Darren1o1 wrote:

Do you have much experience with other systems such as the A levels on which to compare to the leaving cert? Have you been to an irish or UK university?

Ps. as i am aware most UK universities ask for 5 subjects with certain grades. Usually when they have a quote 3 subjects it is for A levels, which are worth something like double the points of the leaving and are therefore not comparable.

I'm doin my leavin dis yr so obviously i haven't bn to any sort of uni!! As for 5 subjects with certain grades i hav already said in my previous reply which u obviously didn't read i only need 3 B1's, all the colleges i was accepted to had the the same requirements. My sister is teaching in a school on london n she can't get over how easy the college system is to get into compared to Ireland.

Also the standard required for a levels is incomparable with the leavin cert as our system is way more complicated.......the junior cert would b pitched on d same level as the A Levels.

genericgoon

Indeed its independent nature is great. However thats why people don't like grinds because they scew the system in favour of the rich again despite our independent system. While it is unfortunate that being richer can confer an advantage upon you in the LC, this is a capitalist society and thus money will talk one way or the other. Personally, I'd never take grinds because of their scewing effect, the fact I don't really need them and I'm a scab and proud of it(as are my parents). After all I am from County Cavan!

Assez Bien

Corruptedmorals wrote:

Pfft, it's something like £3000 per year at a Uk uni, some people end up paying back their student loans for up to a decade.

The UCAS system is based on grade prediction, WTF, though they do take your actual grades as well, BUT also your GCSE grades. What if you get on the wrong side of a teacher and s/he predicts you a C when you need at least a B? Nevermind how much a grade can improve between November (around then) to May.

I think it's better to have a broad range of subjects then 3, which they pick at 15. A bit unfair to be basically deciding your future at 15. I know plenty of people doing A-Levels, and also the Scottish higher system, A-Levels are pretty much based on coursework, which is easily plagiarised, and the Scottish Highers don't go into detail.

Most Irish students receive a grant wen they are studyin overseas.....also u will recieve a bursary from the NHS if u are syudyin a course related to science, nursing, phsyio, medicine, radiography, basically most of the courses Irish people apply for.

Also wen applyin i was allowed to predict my own grades as wer my peers who wer also applyin to ucas so really my career guidance teacher was not involved at all.

Another point is a lot of people choose their leavin cert subjects as the age of 15 as i did so therefore a lot of Irish people are decidin their fate at 15 too.

Darren1o1

Assez Bien wrote:

I'm doin my leavin dis yr so obviously i haven't bn to any sort of uni!! As for 5 subjects with certain grades i hav already said in my previous reply which u obviously didn't read i only need 3 B1's, all the colleges i was accepted to had the the same requirements. My sister is teaching in a school on london n she can't get over how easy the college system is to get into compared to Ireland.

Also the standard required for a levels is incomparable with the leavin cert as our system is way more complicated.......the junior cert would b pitched on d same level as the A Levels.

Yes i did read it and that is why i questioned it. When i was looking at engineering in Queens(i know diff system) there was a requirement for 5-6 subjects hence my comment. A levels are taken on a higher standard then leaving cert that is why they only do three subjects. The reason for the difficulty to get in here is both the standard and the fact that people get free fees whereas this is not the case.

If you do not know the standards in the unis then don't comment on them. Leave it to those who do.

Darren1o1

Assez Bien wrote:

I'm doin my leavin dis yr so obviously i haven't bn to any sort of uni!! As for 5 subjects with certain grades i hav already said in my previous reply which u obviously didn't read i only need 3 B1's, all the colleges i was accepted to had the the same requirements. My sister is teaching in a school on london n she can't get over how easy the college system is to get into compared to Ireland.

Also the standard required for a levels is incomparable with the leavin cert as our system is way more complicated.......the junior cert would b pitched on d same level as the A Levels.

ps look at this site. it has 500 points for the entry which is not a far cry from the irish universities. Unless this is an insanely competitive course, i would take this as the normative value for the universities there.

http://www.salford.ac.uk/course-finder/course/139

Assez Bien

I'm sorry u are obviously very misinformed, so please get down off ur high horse and don't patronise me by telling me what i know and don't know. Its very obvious from reading your previous comments u like to think of youself as a know it all, something that couldn't be further from the truth!

Darren1o1

Assez Bien wrote:

I'm sorry u are obviously very misinformed, so please get down off ur high horse and don't patronise me by telling me what i know and don't know. Its very obvious from reading your previous comments u like to think of youself as a know it all, something that couldn't be further from the truth!

You said yourself you have not been to these places so would not know

Assez Bien wrote:

I'm doin my leavin dis yr so obviously i haven't bn to any sort of uni!!

Assez Bien

Hah, salford.......enough said

genericgoon

Tbh Id rather work much harder for a couple of years and get into an irish college with no tuition fees rather than have a huge debt and go to the UK.

Anyways, isnt this thread supposed to be about grinds? Sure if you don't like them , i dunno, vote for the socialist party or something. Im afraid theyre just an unfortunate product of rampant capitalism.

Darren1o1

Assez Bien wrote:

Hah, salford.......enough said

What is mean't by this?

http://www.gcal.ac.uk/shsc/study/ug/bsc_physio_apply.html

Another one with five A's at honours level in glasgow.

Haven't a Clue

genericgoon wrote:

Tbh Id rather work much harder for a couple of years and get into an irish college with no tuition fees rather than have a huge debt and go to the UK.

...and have to deal with those British bastards. Padraig Pearse is turning in his grave with people like Assez Bien (or whoever the hell said they're going to Britain, I've kinda lost track of this thread.). :P

Assez Bien

Darren1o1 wrote:

You said yourself you have not been to these places so would not know

by not being to them does not mean i have not visited open days etc or talked to anyone on the course. Both of my sisters have attended college in the uk, one a phsiotherapist and i also know alot more ppl who hav chosen to attend college in the uk so i think i do know how it works.

genericgoon

Haven't a Clue wrote:

...and have to deal with those British bastards. Padraig Pearse is turning in his grave with people like Assez Bien (or whoever the hell said they're going to Britain, I've kinda lost track of this thread.). :P

True and James Connolly is probably turning in his grave about grinds;)

Darren1o1

genericgoon wrote:

True and James Connolly is probably turning in his grave about grinds;)

We should mount them on generator and get free electricity. Think of the sustainable energy!

Assez Bien

Haven't a Clue wrote:

...and have to deal with those British bastards. Padraig Pearse is turning in his grave with people like Assez Bien (or whoever the hell said they're going to Britain, I've kinda lost track of this thread.). :P

Excuse me?! I'm sorry but by studyin in the uk does not mean i'm pledgin my alligence to the queen.

Darren1o1

Assez Bien wrote:

Excuse me?! I'm sorry but by studyin in the uk does not mean i'm pledgin my alligence to the queen.

It is just a joke man, take it easy.

genericgoon

:P <

---

see that at the end of his post . THAT MEANS ITS A JOKE or at least not very serious.

genericgoon

Also its official. This thread makes you angry! OK can we get back to the grinds debate now?

Haven't a Clue

Assez Bien wrote:

Excuse me?! I'm sorry but by studyin in the uk does not mean i'm pledgin my alligence to the queen.

:rolleyes:

Jesus christ. Take a joke, will ya?

Darren1o1

genericgoon wrote:

Also its official. This thread makes you angry! OK can we get back to the grinds debate now?

I like grinds:D