Dell XPS 710 H2C or build equivalent

€>sense

Hi all,

I'm in a bit of a dilemma, I'm a periodic gamer: get into a game - play it obsessively for a month or so, but could go 2 -3 months without playing anything. I've only ever bought one PC, top specs at the time, and built my subsequent 2 PCs myself. I use the PC far more for work, email, internet and photos.

My problem is I didn't enjoy my last build at all, I didn't put enough effort into visuals and noise reduction -> it was ugly and loud, so I never upgraded it at all it always just felt like deckchairs on the titanic stuff.

So I'm a bit wary about another build, that's why I'm very tempted by the Dell XPS 710 H2C. The advantages are that it looks good, and is supposed to be pretty quiet, at work we have dells and they are quiet and extremely reliable, and a breeze to work inside. Its also got killer specs and appears to be the cheapest PC out there with the QX6700 and Dual 8800 GTXs.

I'd like to hear some expert thoughts on this. Should I just go for the simplicity or could I really build a nice looking quiet system with equivalent specs for around €3,500? My budget is not fixed a few hundred extra I'd live with, but as I already have a 20" monitor, if the price goes much over that for convenience I'll just run with the dell.

Proposed Spec: overclocked QX6700; dual 8800 GTX; 2 GB ram; 2X 150GB WD raptorX in Raid 0 & 1 x Samsung spinpoint T166 500 GB; not sure on the motherboard, power supply, case or cooling (cooling must be silent or close to for this kind of money). Will also want decent sound card (have 5.1 speakers and am happy with em), floppy, DVD RW, 2nd optical media drive, gigabit ethernet, dial-up modem and multiple memory card readers, case ideally will have usb and firewire in front and back.

Please note, I know Dells have a lot of proprietary crap and will be practically un-upgradeable, then again despite being able to, I haven't upgraded any of my pcs to date - I tend to spec them very highly at first, so usually I find I get a few years out of them before I even consider upgrading and then I find to get a noticeable difference, I need to upgrade processor, mainboard & graphics card, at that point I usually don't bother, stick to games I hadn't played around my pc's vintage save my money and upgrade to a whole new machine the following year.

Thanks for reading with me this far, and I'd really appreciate your help on this.

€>sense

uberpixie

As long as you are careful about the parts you pick, a self build is a very viable option.


case: Antec P180 or an Akasa Eclipse.
(Eclipse might be a better idea if you are going SLI)

PSU: Seasonic 600-700W (very quiet PSUs)

Skip raid, its a pointless complication in IMHO, for very little if any speed gain

SLI might be worth it as you are gaming on a 20" and I assume at high resolution.

Motherboard: you can get a variety of hign end boards that come with copper heat pipes for cooling, no fans for cooling equals no extra noise.

As long as you do your research you can build a dacent, very quiet machine, a good deal cheaper tha the dell.

Its just do you really want to build or just buy?

€>sense

Thx uberpixie,

I enjoyed greatly the act of building before, its just my results were disappointing, but it seems things have got a lot more complex especially with regard to cooling quietly, so I'm wary. Also, I've never built in Ireland, so it will have to be entirely online orders - previously I went to local shops/builders for parts.

If I do build, can you recommend a good online supplier ( with a good returns policy ) and is it better to order all components from one supplier or go to the cheapest supplier for each?

Back to your suggestions:

Was tempted by the P180, but note your comments regarding eclipse (i'm assuming because its more roomy and has better thermal performance) it is offset by being a good bit uglier though :-) Any other suggestions re cases?

Is 700W enough for a Qx6700 and dual 8800GTX's with 3-4 HDs & 2xoptical drives? I was thinking in terms of 1000W. Any brands? - it must be really quiet! I'd also take a silent model with lower wattage if it can take the load.

Noted re raid. I'm tempted just to experiment a bit and see for myself, but it would not be a deal clincher. I think most high end mobos will allow it anyway, so I can decide later. If I'm coming tight on the budget, the 2nd raptor X will be the first to go though.

Yes, I think Sli is justifiable, the monitor has a gorgeous 1600x1200 at the minute going unused.

Any suggestions on the passively cooled mobo? Sli is essential as is good overclockability. I've never overclocked before, but am determined to do so this time if I build. The northbridge fan on my last build drove me crazy replaced it two times grrrrr.

Before I'd commit to any mobo or case, I suppose I need to be clear on how I'm going to cool the machine quietly. Water is tempting but I'd want to cool everthing either passively or with water, seems a waste of time to just water cool a processor with noisy fans on the gpus, northbridge, psu or case.

By quiet, I'm not obsessive about silent, just low enough so that you can't really hear it sitting at your desk, have to get close to check if its on type of quiet.

Can this be done with air cooling? if so how? if only with water, can you give some recommendations please.

thx,

€>sense

DanGerMus

Well you could deffinately do a class self build for that price. I'd go with everything pixie said acept the RAID thing. I have a good experience with RAID and see deffinate increase in speed and it's very easy to set up these days. Any way. Have you shopped around on different sites. i just checked dell and cant get into the XPS customisation thing. Are you sure they are selling that spec for that price. I know the last time i checked they were about 30%-50% more expensive than what you could do the same for yourself. But that was a while ago. And they do offer warranty and things that can be helpful.

Try www.overclockers.co.uk www.dabs.ie www.komplett.ie
Euro sites include www.idealo.de (for price checking they search an ass load of sites for you) www.hardwareversand.de
What your lookin for is
Nvidia 680i motherboard
2x 8800 gtx (overkill in my opinion but i'd do it if i had the spare dosh too)
800-1000w psu. 700w might do it depending on manufacturer
Anyway i get the impression all you want is links to shopping baskets with you build in it so here you go OCUK basket attached

There are an abundance of coolers out there Scythe andy and Tuniq tower seem to be the top. personally i'm about to water cool. Power supplies can be loud aspecially those big ones again depending on manufacturer. Water cooled ones are available but they are very pricey and they max out at 500W currently. You could get 2 of these it is possible to put two in a case but would require modification and cost you a bit too.

www.performance-pcs.com american site but deliver to ireland do accesories and all the cooling water and air you can imagine. www.alphacool.de a little closer to home but i've ordered stuff from both these site and the americans deliver quicker and cheaper believe it or not.

€>sense

Thx happygandalf,

I haven't shopped for components online ever, so I'm a bit daunted, both by the online aspect (as opposed to local shops) and the increased choices from the last time I built.

To shop online, and compare price with the XPS H2C I need to settle on a spec, I'm sure of Processor, Graphics card, HDDs but I'm not sure on how to go after that especially to get cool and quiet. I'd like specific recommendations on cooling, and consequently on case, power supply and motherboard.

To get the links for the H2C you need to look to the list on the left of the XPS page. The H2C looks a good deal to me esp with the guaranteed factory overclock, the liquid cooler, and a 22" monitor for €4,500. I have a 20" monitor, so my self-build can't be much more than €3,500, if it is, for convenience I'll just run with the H2C.

Thx for the links, excellent starting point for the price comparisons.

Thx for the shopping basket, that comes under budget, but it is aircooled, how noisy would it be? Remember my last self-build was very noisy. Also why did you pick the Asus Mobo? Tagan PSU? and Crucial Ram?

I'm toying with the idea of water cooling too but the prices are making it look on the expensive side. I'm also curious whether passively cooled vrm and chipsets on the mobo will work without case fans.

Thx again for your help on this.

Anti

There is is no point at all in getting a overclocked version of thee 8800GTX, i got the standard GTX and overlocked it much higher then the OC versions. The OC versions are poor value for money.

DanGerMus

Aye i'd agree there it was just guide for him to see what he should be lookin at. But doesnt OCin them require some soldering and the like? If it does, not everyone would be into that. also preoverclocked cards would have the potential to clock even higher?

awhir

happygandalf wrote:

Aye i'd agree there it was just guide for him to see what he should be lookin at. But doesnt OCin them require some soldering and the like? If it does, not everyone would be into that. also preoverclocked cards would have the potential to clock even higher?

no thats a volt mod you can ovrclock them by software.

good point usally the overclocked 1s are the hand pick cores that will do best like i have my card at 640/1000 thats quite good for a gts.but mine was a pre overclocked version(bought of fallcus)

Anti

happygandalf wrote:

Aye i'd agree there it was just guide for him to see what he should be lookin at. But doesnt OCin them require some soldering and the like? If it does, not everyone would be into that. also preoverclocked cards would have the potential to clock even higher?

Most of the time yes, but the difference from a overclocked standard version and the overclocked version which has been overclokce further is not worth the money tbh.

€>sense

Thx guys,

I'm struggling on this.

I've tried overclockers.co.uk & hardwareversand and both hit well over the €3500 budget to equate to the dell spec. with just air cooling, the dell has a water cooled CPU, then you get convenience and warranty and a monitor.

I'm also concerned about the noise, 2/3 case fans, cpu cooler, 2 GPU coolers, psu cooler, ... sounds loud to me.

I'm starting a new thread trying to nail down the air cooled spec, so I can price it properly before deciding.

Thx again for your help.

DanGerMus

i just checked dell out and it's at least 4400 and that is with a 20" monitor. you'll deffinatly do better elsewhere.

€>sense

or €4500 with 22" + floppy & modem - suggests to me I should be able to get same spec for 3,600 or 3,700 if not then I'll run with the Dell for liquid cooling, warranty, convenience and 22" monitor.

DanGerMus

well a floppy and modem can be picked up for very little 40-50 absolute max for them together. and the Price from dell for that monitor is 349.83. so if you take them out it would bring your equivilant budget to 4100. and that warranty is the lowest available at 1year on site.

If you buy the right parts yourself you can get lifetime warranty from BFG and 10 year from evga GFX cards. Pretty much all premium parts come with good warrantys PSUs Motherboards RAM soundcards and if you have problems you'll be dealing with the retailer you purchased from.
Basically i'm saying that all dell offer you with the basic warranty is nothing you wont get almost everywhere else. And as far as there support goes generally the answer seems to be "sorry we dont deal with that issue" from personal experience.
Apparently there premium warranty can be good i've heard of people getting laptops replaced after almost four years (before warrant ran out) with brand new ones worth a lot more. But this is the exception rather than the rule and you pay nicely for it ,340 bucks for the off chance.

So my overall point is that Dell ain't all they crack themselves up to be. And you will build better elsewhere your self, it will just take a little more effort and you'll be much more satisfied.

Anti

Dell are greta if you have no idea what you are doing. But they do over charge on they pc's. But i have to say their support is fantastic. I had to get on to them the other week for a friend of a friend. The guy from dell he was obviously from norn iron knew i wasnt a fecking idiot and didnt start saying the usual that they do, click start, its in the bottom right hand corner. Now click run. oh thats just up above it on the right. Now enter blach blah. Im sure their not all like that, but this guys was spot on. And ovbiously knew what he was on about without having to use a script. HE even rang back to make sure everything was okay. And that alone has made sure my next laptop will be form dell. As sony just have no idea about tech support.

DanGerMus

Maybe i was unlucky. Was setting up my uncles new pc with him. We couldnt get onto his eircom broadband. When i rang dell they said it sounded like a firewall issue. I asked how do i fix it. They said sorry dont deal with that issue and swiftly hung up. I was a bit miffed. I was able to fix it in the end cos i had a half a clue what i was doin. But my uncle, who was using the pc for work, or anyone who knows little about pcs would have been left standing on the end of the phone. The only firewalls on it were windows one and McAfee both of which come with the PC from dell. They should support this kind of thing.
Maybe i was just unlucky enough to get one of the morons who cant deal with anything outside of the script. I'm amazed you got a call back though that would impress me aswell.
As for sony there prices are even worse than dells.
But you may be interested to know that both dell and sonys support lines in ireland are operating from the same company and building. They dont share staff though LOL.

Anti

WOW, i didnt know that now. But yeah i suppose you just have to get lucky. And im ammazed that dell shipped a machine with the windows firewall on while having mcaffe installed too. Thats just madness.

uberpixie

Anti wrote:

WOW, i didnt know that now. But yeah i suppose you just have to get lucky. And im ammazed that dell shipped a machine with the windows firewall on while having mcaffe installed too. Thats just madness.

I assume Dell get some money for making sure every pc they ship have a mcaffe trial on it.

Nice that stupid users have some sort of protection on the PC, and a lot will just pay the money to macaffe for a full sub after the trial period is over because they are too clueless or lazy to know about a good free alternative.

Such is business .

€>sense

Just spotted a H2C with PhysX card on dell outlet for €3000.

I'm very tempted!

The closest I came to h2c but with lesser but wiser spec was about €3,400 on another thread, but it would involve using 3-4 different online companies and god knows what kind of grief with online ordering - things delayed and not in stock, wrong parts, returns, things not actually fitting when I get them etc.

Maybe I'm overstating the problems with online ordering, but that Dell is looking like a bargain and very convenient.

awhir

give use the specs of the dell and we will have alook if we can match it .

btw a physics card is a complete waste hardly no games support it.

€>sense

qx6700
dual 8800 GTX
2 x 160GB 10000 rpm in raid 0
1 x 500GB 7600 rpm
1000 W PSU
DVD RW
DVD ROM
Ageia PhysX
H2C = liquid cooling for CPU
2 GB Ram
Factory overclocked
full warranty

awhir

ok couldent match that price:D

pritty good then

but the parts i picked would be higher quality.

€>sense

Aw crap!

Its gone I've missed it! Can't believe it!!! It was there this afternoon and now I've decided to get it, its gone!!!!

Is the Dell outlet store for real or some kind of scam?

awhir

its real but anyone else can buy have alook for it tomorrow.

vir7ual

why you gonna put in a physics card. No game supports it and with dual 8800gtx's you def wont want it.

There should be no prob in spec'in a machine to your requirements but i would suggest spending the money for the physics card on something like higher grade ram or something

Blazer

The XPS 720 should be out soon..might as well hold off till then

€>sense

vir7ual wrote:

why you gonna put in a physics card. No game supports it and with dual 8800gtx's you def wont want it.

There should be no prob in spec'in a machine to your requirements but i would suggest spending the money for the physics card on something like higher grade ram or something

I didn't spec it, it was there as part of the deal. Pity I missed it! I could only spec a similar system for €3400 less the liquid cooler, phyx card and less the 2 raptors, but with marginally faster ram and motherboard, and a shiny silver case.

I'm keeping a eye out for another but there is nothing there, has anyone ever bought a system from the Dell outlet store or are there any H2C users out there, I was going to buy this at full price, but at €3000 if kosher, its a steal.

vir7ual

SLI nForce 650-i mainboard
2gig's PC 6400 RAM
Intel Core Duo E6600
2X320MB 8800GTS or 1X768MB 8800GTX
Watercooled CPU
900W PSU
2X74gig Raptors RAID0
1X500gig WD Sata

€2700

€>sense

vir7ual wrote:

SLI nForce 650-i mainboard
2gig's PC 6400 RAM
Intel Core Duo E6600
2X320MB 8800GTS or 1X768MB 8800GTX
Watercooled CPU
900W PSU
2X74gig Raptors RAID0
1X500gig WD Sata

€2700

vir7ual I'm struggling to see how:

dropping from the QX6700 to the E6600

and

dropping 1 x 8800 GTX + the admittedly very limited use phys-x to just one 8800 GTX

and

dropping both Raptors from 160 to 74 GB

and

dropping 100w off the PSU

and

you haven't included a case nor optical media

constitutes value for €300, when you consider that Dell factory overclocks and gives a full warranty on the system.

If another like it comes up I'm going for it, considering I nearly sprang for the same machine at full price €4500.

vir7ual

that system includes a case just didnt mention it because i thought you would understand that it comes together not in parts, this comes with a full warranty and can be overclocked to what ever spec you want. The E6600 can be overclocked to over 3Ghz so bear that in mind. i have seen one of these hit 3.4ghz.

you could prob get another graphics card in there for 480euro, dont see what the odds on have 160gig os drive is.

Again its down to personal preference on dell's. some people like them, some dont. In regards to their overclocking, i've seen the XPS overclocked, you can get the E6400 to run quicker with the right ram timings.

With 2 160's and a 22" monitor you'd be close to 3800.

About the optical drive, didnt mention it as its a fully built computer. sorry if it caused confusion

€>sense

vir7ual wrote:

About the optical drive, didnt mention it as its a fully built computer. sorry if it caused confusion

No problem vir7ual, I had picked you up the wrong way. Where did you see that machine? There is a good balance to it and it runs with the advice I've had on here in general.

vir7ual

PM sent €>sense