Enda Kenny For Taoiseach??????

bemmet

A couple of questions that seriously exercise my mind-


Am i the only one to be worried about this ?
Can we be serious about what may happen on the 24th of may next ?
Who is that man appearing on FG posters?
Have we deluded ourselves about the prosperity most of us ,and i accept not all of us ,have had recently.
How can Enda Kenny et al ,say that FF are fully responsible for any of the difficulties the country has whilst in government .And yet out of the other corner of its mouth say that FF can accept no plaudits for the economic miracle that Ireland has become.

Am I the only one who remembers the 1980,s -when we exported people and not products.
And yet the Whiners,Rabbite ,Kenny et al remind us that FF have been in government for 18 of the last 20 years.Well if they have done such a bad job of it ,how come the economy is recognised as being the model for copying and commentary throughout the rest of Europe.

Northern Ireland. Would the peace we see have been possible with a FG taoiseach?.... well lets look back on the last FG taoiseach where he publicly admitted that he could not and would not engage in negotiations with Sinn fein. he led a party who seemed comfortable and fully supportive of this position.How far would that thought have got us ?????????

For one moment can we be serious ......
The last thing we need is a change of government -
Why jeopardise it all ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Lennoxschips

The Celtic Tiger economy happened precisely because we were so poor in the 1980s. We had extremely low labour costs, spoke English, had low tax compared to other EU countries, were fairly well educated and within the EU market. So these small US tech firms came here and set up shop. Then the US internet/tech boom happened and those companies took off.

FF are not responsible for the silicon valley tech boom. The Celtic Tiger would have happened no matter who was in power.

What a government is responsible for however is managing the boom. FF have done nothing of the sort and let the property developers manage our boom, while rewarding the rich with tax cuts in the higher tax bands. FG/Labour produced a paper in 1997 detailing how to develop sustainable cities and manage growth. Since 1997 we have, under FF, realised the worst urban sprawl in Europe. We are the poster nation for eastern Europe on how not to splash your new found riches about.

MoominPapa

bemmet wrote:

For one moment can we be serious ......
The last thing we need is a change of government -
Why jeopardise it all ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Are you seriously suggesting that the out going government are competent?

I no fan of Enda Kenny but I'm more than willing to him and the alternative a go as there is no way in hell they could be any worse then the FF/PD coalition, they may turn out to be just as bad but not worse

bemmet

You make it sound as if the management group behind the neighbourhood under 12 team could have run the country and still boomed Lennox.

Does not wash with me I am afraid.
The celtic Tiger happened precisely because we were so poor in the 1980s!!!!
Well using your warped logic therefore we should be building statues to both Charlie and Garret for causing the mess in the 80,s which delivered us the celtic tiger?

no comments positive about a government who fought perticularly hard to maintain this corporate tax rate ?? against significant european effort to push us the opposite way . (including labours great PDR it must be said!!)

None either about a recognised third level education system that is in line with corporate requirements and able to deliver the precise skills required by these companies..
And your comment about small tech ..belies belief..
by small tech do you mean pfizer.... or lilly ,...or wyeth... or microsoft ..... wake up and smell the coffee my man ...big companies choose here for a mixture of reasons ... one of which is political stability and pragmatism ....
please if you are going to talk about our economy in such disparaging terms please try to understand it .
you talk of tech as if it was our economy ... have a closer look at what our main value exports was recently ..... as in the last three years ... not tech my man ....

And as for the urban sprawl and resultant traffic congestion - i have to agree with you living here as i do that it is a right pain in the ass and one of the worst signs of where we are as a country ...

but you know what - it sure beats the eighties when there was no traffic on the road ,because
A- there was hardly anyone driving to work
b- few could afford cars
c- there was rarely a second car in any house never mind a third.
d- we had mass emigration rather than immigration and therefore a declining population

You espouse the same rubbish as the opposition do here , for the good we have ,it was nothing to do with the government,it was all going to happen naturally.
For any of the downside,it was all the governments fault .
Your argument is so devoid of logic ,that you will probably only understand its fallacy when the people deliver their verdict next thursday week .
i remain convinced that they will ask the same ,sane questions i ask in my first email. And follow up by doing the sensible thing.

MoominPapa

bemmet wrote:

None either about a recognised third level education system that is in line with corporate requirements and able to deliver the precise skills required by these companies..

This was in place at the start of the 90s, if we had to wait for this crowd to sort out 3rd level how come the Celtic tiger had already taken off before they came to power?

bemmet wrote:

And your comment about small tech ..belies belief..
by small tech do you mean pfizer.... or lilly ,...or wyeth... or microsoft ..... wake up and smell the coffee my man ...big companies choose here for a mixture of reasons ... one of which is political stability and pragmatism ....

So you think this government are the main reason for this? I would have said the IDA who were there before during and will be there after this lot

bemmet wrote:

but you know what - it sure beats the eighties when there was no traffic on the road ,because

What has the hideous 80s, which were FFs fault, got to do with this election?

bemmet

To Moominpapa.
Your email scares me..

I,m no fan of endas but i,m willing to give him a go ...
give him a go ?... ah sure go on take a shot at it there Enda...

As for competent ..well... you wont read about this in the papers and no doubt you wont go looking so heres a few ...

Competent in helping to assist in the end of the horific conflict in northern ireland .Think so .
competent in increasing our foreign development aid to just under a billion euros ,up 500% since 97. yup ..think so
Competent on employment .... long term unemployment now sits at 1.3% ..yes that too gets my vote.
Competent on their monetary support for the Irish abroad who had to leave these shores under less viable times ?..support up 1900% since 1997. yes thats competent.
Competent on crime ..well i will leave that one to fine gaels own jim o keefe who had to admit last week that crime had not increased since 1997 ,even though our population has increased rapidly since then .yep my vote their too ..
Competent on tax rate reductions... down from 48 to 41% top tax rate since 97... well yes that also gets my vote.
competent on my pension ... 19 billion extra put into pension provision since 97 ... yes
competentcy in managing debt.... a billion euros per year extra put into servicing national debt interest repayments since 1997 ..yes thats competent to me
I could go on and on ,,,, but moomin papa ,you should go and find out the reality for yourself before you "give enda a go"..for five years with our economy and future .

MoominPapa

bemmet wrote:

To Moominpapa.
Your email scares me..

You must have a very delicate disposition

Competent on inflation? No
Competent on reducing stealth tax? No
Competent on urban development? No
Competent on public transport? No
Competent on traffic management? No
Competent on stability in the property/rental sectors? No
Competent on providing social housing? No
Competent on providing/facilitating childcare? No
Competent on providing anything approaching an adequate health service? No
Competent on drug/gang/gun crime? No
Competent on introducing new technologies? Hell no
Competent on reaching our commitments to providing foreign aid? No

All this despite the ten most prosperous years in the history of this, and most other, state.

Give Enda a go? Yeah I'll risk it

bemmet

Well moominpapa,thats the beauty of democracy ...you may get what you wish for . sometimes

but be careful ...because watching darling endas commentary recently ... its give give give..... have a look at how he would handle the nurses dispute ,

but look ... we are both entitled to our own views ...

Quick question though ,and this is meant genuinely ,were you of voting age in the eighties, do you have living knowledge of what it was like?

And why therefore one would not want ,in your words , to give an alternative a go ?

brianthebard

FF really have it hard if their canvassers have to start spreading propaganda on boards like this thread...

gandalf

The basic fact is this government had resources that all the previous governments could have only dreamed of. They had the ability to address so many issues and problems with the Health Service, Infrastructure, Public Transport and Housing. What did they do, bugger all they wasted and fluffed their way through 10 years. Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck would have been more forward looking.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded in the extreme imho.

Gael

brianthebard wrote:

FF really have it hard if their canvassers have to start spreading propaganda on boards like this thread...

The panic is setting in it seems.

bemmet

Brian,
Up to you to believe however I am not a canvasser.
However the real question is ,if one supports this govt ..one is a canvasser ...and if one does not ..one is a normal member of the public.
You dont by any chance like conspiracy theory movies brian.

gandalf

brianthebard wrote:

FF really have it hard if their canvassers have to start spreading propaganda on boards like this thread...

Its amazing isn't it all the negative campaigning is coming from the Government side. Obviously they cannot win because people know their promises are hollow based on their actions over the last 10 years.

Oh and to answer a question I remember the 80's well and Charles Haughey telling hard workers like my father to "tighten there belts" while he lorded it up bankrolled by his cronies. Looks like those bad old days haven't left the Developers party.

MoominPapa

bemmet wrote:

Quick question though ,and this is meant genuinely ,were you of voting age in the eighties, do you have living knowledge of what it was like?

Yes I was of voting age in the late eighties and know exactly what it was like

bemmet wrote:

And why therefore one would not want ,in your words , to give an alternative a go ?

The 80s were, mostly, FFs fault. So what is you're point? I asked you before what has the 80s got to do with this election. Are you convinced that if FF don't get back into government we are guaranteed to be back to 80s? And if so why?

brianthebard

bemmet wrote:

Brian,
Up to you to believe however I am not a canvasser.
However the real question is ,if one supports this govt ..one is a canvasser ...and if one does not ..one is a normal member of the public.
You dont by any chance like conspiracy theory movies brian.

Aw, are people being hard on you because of your blind faith in the government?
I mean "why jepordise it all?" Gosh that sounds awfully close to a party election slogan I've heard. Its not hard to see the changes that FG+Lab made the last time they were in government, but its awfully hard to see what the hell has changed for the better in the last five years of government.

is_that_so

bemmet wrote:

A couple of questions that seriously exercise my mind-


Am i the only one to be worried about this ?
Can we be serious about what may happen on the 24th of may next ?
Who is that man appearing on FG posters?
Have we deluded ourselves about the prosperity most of us ,and i accept not all of us ,have had recently.
How can Enda Kenny et al ,say that FF are fully responsible for any of the difficulties the country has whilst in government .And yet out of the other corner of its mouth say that FF can accept no plaudits for the economic miracle that Ireland has become.

Am I the only one who remembers the 1980,s -when we exported people and not products.
And yet the Whiners,Rabbite ,Kenny et al remind us that FF have been in government for 18 of the last 20 years.Well if they have done such a bad job of it ,how come the economy is recognised as being the model for copying and commentary throughout the rest of Europe.

Northern Ireland. Would the peace we see have been possible with a FG taoiseach?.... well lets look back on the last FG taoiseach where he publicly admitted that he could not and would not engage in negotiations with Sinn fein. he led a party who seemed comfortable and fully supportive of this position.How far would that thought have got us ?????????

For one moment can we be serious ......
The last thing we need is a change of government -
Why jeopardise it all ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I think there is an overreaction here tbh. And a touch of selective blindness. Much of the debt we were saddled with in the early 1980s in particular was as a result of the lunatic policies and promises of the 1977 election and brought to us by a FF government.

Dig back far enough in time and we can find any number of irrelevancies to support our case.

Current and future government are built on the past foundations and our abilities to learn from that. In that mix is included Labour and FG, FF and the PDs, who have all served in governments.

So on balance we have a choice, do we let the current incumbents pick up from where they left off , and lord there are any number of reasons not to do so, or do we say time for a change?
There are also any number of reasons as to why they should be replaced, many already posted. I could ask the very same question about Bertie.

So I am not sure what it is I am jeopardising but I won't lose any sleep if Kenny does get in. "A time for everything" as they say.
So exercise your mind , pick your poison and live with it.

bemmet

Moomin papa -eighties mostly fianna fails fault - one could ,seriously challenge that .
A fg alternative govt was in power from 81 to 82 and held the longest running govt from 82 to 87 ,think you might be being a little bit biased in your consideration of impact there.

And why are they releveant ,the eighties that is ,because i do not want either I ,or my young family to ever witness anything like them again .

I dont believe a combination of Enda ,Pat ,Trevor and probably a few ribald locally focussed independents as a government can give the country the clear steer it needs .

lucernarian

gandalf wrote:

Its amazing isn't it all the negative campaigning is coming from the Government side. Obviously they cannot win because people know their promises are hollow based on their actions over the last 10 years.

Oh and to answer a question I remember the 80's well and Charles Haughey telling hard workers like my father to "tighten there belts" while he lorded it up bankrolled by his cronies. Looks like those bad old days haven't left the Developers party.

Charlie Haughey gave us Temple Bar and the IFSC. And don't mix up bribery for prudent fiscal expenditure. The sad part about the "tighten our belts" speech was that he raised social welfare payments by 25% in the budget soon afterwards.

Didn't FG want to convert the land around Temple Bar into a large bus station, at the time?

Anyway, Fine Gael have most certainly exercised in negative campaigning, except they have proposed knee-jerk reactions to issues without thinking them through. E.g. such drivel as drunk-tanks in hospitals and drug testing in secondary schools. No, I don't want Enda Kenny as Taoiseach.

gandalf

I noticed you avoided the Health Service, Housing, Infrastructure and Public Transport in your ra-ra list. Did you feel they were to be avoided because you are ashamed of the Govenments performance in these areas ??

gandalf

To_be_confirmed wrote:

Charlie Haughey gave us Temple Bar and the IFSC. And don't mix up bribery for prudent fiscal expenditure. The sad part about the "tighten our belts" speech was that he raised social welfare payments by 25% in the budget soon afterwards.

I'll grant you that one of the only good things that Haughey did was the IFSC.

Didn't FG want to convert the land around Temple Bar into a large bus station, at the time?

Don't know tbh but CIE owned the lands around Temple Bar didn't they.

ateam

Thursday's television debate will show up Kenny.

nesf

Lennoxschips wrote:

The Celtic Tiger economy happened precisely because we were so poor in the 1980s.

It's just a tad more complicated than that to be honest.


My only worry about Kenny is his lack of Ministerial experience. His comments at the nurse's conference underlined that. However, there's enough experience in the party to make up for it so long as he listens to them. If they get elected he's going to be holding together a three party coalition which is not a trivial thing to do.

Bemmet I think that your complaints can be answered by pointing out that they are in opposition. Do you expect them to be singing FF's praises or something?

stepbar

bemmet wrote:

Moomin papa -eighties mostly fianna fails fault - one could ,seriously challenge that .
A fg alternative govt was in power from 81 to 82 and held the longest running govt from 82 to 87 ,think you might be being a little bit biased in your consideration of impact there.

And why are they releveant ,the eighties that is ,because i do not want either I ,or my young family to ever witness anything like them again .

I dont believe a combination of Enda ,Pat ,Trevor and probably a few ribald locally focussed independents as a government can give the country the clear steer it needs .

Ah, you remember the golden years of 77-81? FF didnt leave us FG'ers much to work with TBH. Mind you, isnt it ironic that our own taoiseach had the same problem managing his finances. Fast forward 20 years and TBH it doesnt suprise me that FF are still wasting money. The FF/PD gov in the last five years have been nothing short of a disaster.

28064212

The boom years of the Celtic Tiger were created by two things - a low corporation tax and EU funding. Most of the financial well-being in this country is down to private companies, not Fianna Fáil. If the current government was seriously competent, Ireland would be a lot better off than it is at the moment. The areas where the government have the greatest responsibilities (i.e. the public services: infrastructure; health; education; public transport) are way below-par, despite this being the best funded government in Irish history. This government has done some good things. The smoking ban was a great initiative. As I said, keeping the corporation tax low was important. But in reality they've failed in the most important areas.

Bringing up Northern Ireland as a serious issue in this election is ridiculous. Barring the virtual impossibility of Sinn Féin somehow managing to get into government, it's a non-issue. At best, Fianna Fáil haven't impeded the peace process. The real work has been done in Northern Ireland by Northern Irish politicians. Bertie managed to get his face in for a few photo-ops (his special talent), and suddenly he's the guy who oversaw the process? Give me a break.

I'll admit that I wouldn't be particularly enamoured of Enda Kenny, would much rather see Pat Rabbitte as Taoiseach. But I've yet to see any political ability be displayed by Ahern outside of being able to shake hands and smile. Unless having dodgy personal finances and being able to agree with everyone count as political abilities. McDowell at least has a brain in his head, but his policies make the American Republicans seem like a well-adjusted, central party.

And the 80s are irrelavent to this conversation, except perhaps as a cautionary tale

Thomas_S_Hunterson

My worry about Enda is that he is an inept politician.

The guy can't even deliver a speech. He has clearly been 'taught to talk' and still does it horrendously.

drdre

ateam wrote:

Thursday's television debate will show up Kenny.

I cant wait for that debate.It should be fun

is_that_so

sean_keevey wrote:

My worry about Enda is that he is an inept politician.

The guy can't even deliver a speech. He has clearly been 'taught to talk' and still does it horrendously.

Don't you remember Bertie's anorak days? :rolleyes:

gandalf

And Bertie still can't string 2 sentences together without looking and sounding like an extreme gombeen man :rolleyes:

stepbar

sean_keevey wrote:

My worry about Enda is that he is an inept politician.

The guy can't even deliver a speech. He has clearly been 'taught to talk' and still does it horrendously.

Bertie could do with elecution lessons alright...

nesf

gandalf wrote:

And Bertie still can't string 2 sentences together without looking and sounding like an extreme gombeen man :rolleyes:

Do you think that Enda is a better speaker than Bertie?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

nesf wrote:

Do you think that Enda is a better speaker than Bertie?

I can listen to Bertie without bursting out laughing. Endajust gets me every time.

It must be those forced hand gestures combined with the pallid emotion and textbook structuring. He just can't pull it off.