well done west ham

thebaz

as an Everton fan and lover of good football, i'm glad west ham stayed up playing attractive football and getting adequate points, in a seamingly impossible situation. I have found the brand of football offered by Sheffield United and Watford , dour, and won't miss them .. but would welcome Charlton back .

acquiescefc

My heart goes out to every Blades supporter.





not....



hurray for normal service resumed.

leninbenjamin

i think that's the general consensus really. still though the likes of Ferdinand and co. deserve a huge kick up the arse for underperforming all season. with the imminent departure of Tevez they won't get another chance to get away with such a crap season.

Dont be at yourself

I have to see, I'm not sad to see any of the bottom three go down. Pity Curbs didn't take the fall with Charlton.

Sizzler

Lets face it if Tevez wasnt around they would have been goosed 2 months ago. As a Utd fan Im pretty f**cked off we didnt beat them today though as we owed them one :mad:

Sheff Utd didnt bring anything to the league but they worked hard in the most part but not to be. Happy for Paul Jewell & Wigan I think they will learn from it for next season.

Watford were robbed of their best player for 90% of the season so feel slightly sorry for them but in fairness they looked out of their depth for the most part.

herbieflowers

although they will have Dean Ashton back! Oo-er!

Ravelleman

I'm over joyed at the result. I thought West Ham were finished months ago but Zamora and Tevez have clawed us back. Can't wait for next season.

Chucky the tree

Well done west ham for cheating to stay up. Mainly down to Trevor brooking telling his Fa chums not to dock points.

Mossy Monk

Delighted to see Neil Warnock fail. Never had any time for him.

Guy:Incognito

Delighted with the way results went. Did anyone interview Warnock? Sky didnt seem to get him. I'd imagine he's off writing his conspiracy story now.:)

EDIT, JUst saw justs post, dotn know hjow I missed that interview, boo urns.

justfortherecor

Anyone else catch Warnock's interview on Sky Sports. Wasn't too complimentary about Sir Alex. 'Seeing him celebrating with the trophy...well it just leaves a bitter taste.'

Also had the knives out for Rob Styles and the 'Commission'. Bitter, Bitter man.

Oh and congrats to David Unsworth as well! Hilarious turn of events!

Carcharodon

Chucky the tree wrote:

Well done west ham for cheating to stay up. Mainly down to Trevor brooking telling his Fa chums not to dock points.

Yawn.....

They pulled it together at the end of the season on the pitch to be fair and deserve to stay up. People can argue about the bureaucracy and ins and outs of transfers but they played thier way out f trouble which is the main thing.
Tevez being the main one that kept them up, it shouldn't matter now that his transfer is clouded in some discrepencies and illegalities in the method of transfer. Its about whats on the pitch not off it...

WhiteWashMan

excellent. 6 points for spurs next season before the season even starts.

thebaz

Chucky the tree wrote:

Well done west ham for cheating to stay up. Mainly down to Trevor brooking telling his Fa chums not to dock points.

yawn is right -- all other clubs are so ethical -- how by the way did liverpool get into the CL in '05/'06 , persuasion if i can remember rightly -- anyway West Ham cheated for all 41 points , and finishing 15th

Zapp Brannigan

thebaz wrote:

how by the way did liverpool get into the CL in '05/'06 , persuasion if i can remember rightly

Thats got nothing to do with the thread, so why bring it up?

I'm glad West Ham stayed up (but I still hate Curbs).

redspider

Carcharodon wrote:

They pulled it together at the end of the season on the pitch to be fair and deserve to stay up. People can argue about the bureaucracy and ins and outs of transfers but they played thier way out f trouble which is the main thing. Tevez being the main one that kept them up, it shouldn't matter now that his transfer is clouded in some discrepencies and illegalities in the method of transfer. Its about whats on the pitch not off it...

Well, I for one am not happy with the Tevez situation. It does seem to me to be unfair if a club, such as West Ham, get the services of a player yet didnt have to pay the 'full market price' for those services. And then when the club is found out for clearly breaking rules and being participants in hoodwinkery, they 'get away' with a fine of 5.5m (8-9m euro) which is meaningless as the prize fopr staying up is 30m+ !

And I agree with you that Tevez was the main and perhaps the only difference between relegation and staying up. He's even become more influential in recent weeks.

I think this will go to the courts, perhaps to the Arbitration court in Switzerland, as Sheffield Utd have far too much to lose. If they get support from Wigan, etc, the clubs staying up, that will be interesting.

The Premier League saying that there is no point in doing so is laughable. The Premier League have also set precedents on issues in the past and have deducted points, and I understand that a team was chucked out of the FA Cup for a player registration issue this season (wasnt it Burnley?). Even reading the judgement itself would seem to indicate that this was far from a normal 'impartial' judgement.

Redspider

thebaz

Slurms wrote:

Thats got nothing to do with the thread, so why bring it up?

I'm glad West Ham stayed up (but I still hate Curbs).

cause theres kind of a witch hunt on west ham , as if no other clubs broke the rules and didn't get appropriate punishment -- could for instance liverpool be punished for fielding weakened teams in the premiership -- there have been many transfers that have been dodgy to say the least , should all these teams have points deducted ?

PiE

thebaz wrote:

cause theres kind of a witch hunt on west ham , as if no other clubs broke the rules and didn't get appropriate punishment -- could for instance liverpool be punished for fielding weakened teams in the premiership

Punished? No.

Frowned at? Maybe.

Players involved in dodgy transfers usually don't end up being a deciding factor between relegation and survival, so you can see where the other teams are coming from, surely.

StickyMcGinty

thebaz wrote:

could for instance liverpool be punished for fielding weakened teams in the premiership

no, because thats not breaking the rules

thebaz wrote:

there have been many transfers that have been dodgy to say the least , should all these teams have points deducted ?

yes, if you break the rules you should expect such a punishment.

the reason why theres hostility against west ham is because they broke the rules and didnt get the punishment they deserved, and it has cost other teams a lot of prestige and money. I dont like teams challenging a FA decision by going to a higher court, but in this case i think Sheffield United should go for it

2Tagz

As a longtime West Ham supporter I would like to say that this group of players have been leaderless, clueless and gutless all season including today and should have been wiped off the pitch earlier. Thank God Man U didn't have something to play for otherwise it would have been 5-0 at least. If it wasn't for the genius & inspiration of Tevez we would have been relegated in March & we are definitely going down next season unless the attitude of this squad changes. We're damn lucky to still be in the prem & everything about the club has been a f*ck*n disgrace this season. Fair play to Wigan for their efforts today and genuine commiserations to Sheffield Utd, at least they're honest footballers.. (& congrats to Man U as deserved champions).

_blank_

I was egging on SheffYoo today.

I like Warnock, always have, and was disappointed to see the seemingly dishonest WHUFC beat the drop.

Also, I hope to see Dolan on the TV again complaining about the other clubs going to court. After his performance last week saying they were cheating. The big man needs to leave his personal grievences at the door when he goes to work.

That, and Paul Jewell makes my skin crawl.

acquiescefc

VinnyL wrote:

no, because thats not breaking the rules



yes, if you break the rules you should expect such a punishment.

the reason why theres hostility against west ham is because they broke the rules and didnt get the punishment they deserved, and it has cost other teams a lot of prestige and money. I dont like teams challenging a FA decision by going to a higher court, but in this case i think Sheffield United should go for it

I agree, The Blunts should pursue another lost cause. Like Nade, Tonge, Webber, Shelton,Kazim-Richards....ooh my sides are splitting.

They lost because theyre not good enough, one win aginst the Arse does not mean you stay in the Prem. Fair Play to the hammers, they battled and won games when it mattered.

'Theres a party goin on right here, a celebration to last throughout the year.'

Chucky the tree

I hate sheff united and Colin, and i was dying too see them relegated all season, but i think the FA have made themselves to be a laughing stock.

This i what the Commission said:
'We have finally come to the view that a deduction of points would not be proportionate punishment... (it) would have consigned the club to certain relegation.'


So basically you can break the rules once it you arent in a relegation battle.:rolleyes:

If this was chelsea the we'd have a 10 page thread on how they are murdering football.

zuutroy

Warnock is complaining like mad in this story that Liverpool and Man U fielding weakened teams sent them down:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sheff_utd/6652335.stm

No, what sent them down was being in the position through 36-37 matches to be screwed by team selection in the first place

Sizzler

2Tagz wrote:

As a longtime West Ham supporter I would like to say that this group of players have been leaderless, clueless and gutless all season including today and should have been wiped off the pitch earlier. Thank God Man U didn't have something to play for otherwise it would have been 5-0 at least. If it wasn't for the genius & inspiration of Tevez we would have been relegated in March & we are definitely going down next season unless the attitude of this squad changes. We're damn lucky to still be in the prem & everything about the club has been a f*ck*n disgrace this season. Fair play to Wigan for their efforts today and genuine commiserations to Sheffield Utd, at least they're honest footballers.. (& congrats to Man U as deserved champions).

Mate Im just glad Man U didnt have to win yesterday as they looked like they could have been there till Xmas and not scored :mad:


If I was a hammers fan Id be asking why the players only got their act together (and pulled off some superb results in the process) when they realised they were in the brown stuff? Could they not have played like that all season? I seem to remember them getting trounced at Reading before Xmas and beaten twice at home by Watford The players have a lot to answer for.

Xavi6

Disgusted West Ham got out of it. Feel sorry for Charlton as they are the most likeable of the clubs involved this year and don't have a pr*ck of a manager/didn't cheat their way out of it. Also a bit of a pity that Heskey couldn't have taken another team down.

gucci

Xavi6 wrote:

Disgusted West Ham got out of it. Feel sorry for Charlton as they are the most likeable of the clubs involved this year and don't have a pr*ck of a manager/didn't cheat their way out of it. Also a bit of a pity that Heskey couldn't have taken another team down.

was that "pr*ck of a manager" whos now in charge of charlton, incharge of west ham when the controversial players were signed??
pity charlton are gone down...they were handy for 6 points a season against man utd, liverpool and aresnal, handy for the pools

Xavi6

gucci wrote:

was that "pr*ck of a manager" whos now in charge of charlton, incharge of west ham when the controversial players were signed??

Nope that was a reference to Warnock who took the other team down. I quite like Pardew.

Xavi6

gucci wrote:

was that "pr*ck of a manager" whos now in charge of charlton, incharge of west ham when the controversial players were signed??

Nope that was a reference to Warnock who took the other team down.

gucci

Xavi6 wrote:

Nope that was a reference to Warnock who took the other team down.

appologies..............i agree with the statement now
pardew has to take a pay cut to 1.2million next season (that figure could be euro forget where i was reading it) how will he survive on that :eek:
hope darren bent signs for the pool

thebaz

what i don't like about the whole gang of four thing is , the reality is its all about greed , and tv money worth 50 mill to each club, but the tv money is not being paid for what the gang of four and there like offer , but for what is offered by man u , arse , chelsea , spurs , l'pool , and a few other teams -- i for one can't stand watching wigan, sheffield u , watford , boro or fulham ... and they are behaving like the small teams that they are ... judgment was passed maybe it wasn't fair but to me its an example of trying to get another player sent off ... i think Michael Brown should have got more that a 3 match ban for head butting , should clubs try to come together and ensure he gets a just sentence of 9 games . The answer is no , judgement was passed and accept it . West Ham are up because they won more matches the Sheffield , and not because of Tevez , who i admit is world class.

LuckyLloyd

I think the real travesty would have been if a football team was relegated on the basis of a points deduction. Sheffield UTD need to take a long hard look at the way they closed out the season. IMHO - the worst three teams in the premiership were relegated. As it should be.

marco_polo

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I think the real travesty would have been if a football team was relegated on the basis of a points deduction. Sheffield UTD need to take a long hard look at the way they closed out the season. IMHO - the worst three teams in the premiership were relegated. As it should be.

I agree they were all but safe with 5-6 games to go and still ended up getting relegated because they mentally switched off, and couldn't turn it on again when the going got tough. Whatever about the wrongs and rights of the West Ham situation (I would have quite enjoyed a WH relegation ) if all you need to survive in the premiership is a point at home to Wigan to on the last day you can't achieve that then you deserve to go down. A poor side with an annoying manager that the PL is better off without IMHO.

BaZmO*

zuutroy wrote:

Warnock is complaining like mad in this story that Liverpool and Man U fielding weakened teams sent them down:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sheff_utd/6652335.stm

No, what sent them down was being in the position through 36-37 matches to be screwed by team selection in the first place

Ironically enough, Warnock fielded a weakened team against Manu because he wanted to rest his players for their next game against Charlton in which they could only manage a draw. He reckoned that Utd. would beat them regardless of team he put out.

leninbenjamin

"If I were on the Premier League board, I would say 'we must address Sheffield United's plight that has come about through no cause of their own'.

this time it's the chairman. hilarious. it's a wonder 17 other teams managed to stay up this year.

Mossy Monk

"If I were on the Premier League board, I would say 'we must address Sheffield United's plight that has come about through no cause of their own'.

Yeah, it is someone elses fault that they are ****.

Chucky the tree

gucci wrote:

pity charlton are gone down...they were handy for 6 points a season against man utd, liverpool and aresnal, handy for the pools

Eh, you do realise liverpool only drew with charlton on sunday yea?

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote:

Eh, you do realise liverpool only drew with charlton on sunday yea?

You need to submit your inter - web sarcasmometer for servicing methinks.

redzerdrog

i am happy the hammers stayed up they offer more than the clubs that went down and i actually think west ham will get a uefa cup spot next season.

therecklessone

Chucky the tree wrote:

I hate sheff united and Colin, and i was dying too see them relegated all season, but i think the FA have made themselves to be a laughing stock.

You're entitled to your opinion and all that, but I think the FA had nothing to do with the case...it was a breach of Premier League rules that West Ham were charged with...

thebaz

seams as if Dave Whelan is determined to bring West Ham down , he sounds extremly bitter , and wants Tevez investigated again, he should be wondering why Jewell left his little provincial artificial club instead of sinking west ham

leninbenjamin

this doesn't make a lick of sense. if the contract was terminated, shouldn't that mean Tevez goes back to MSI? why could he still play, surely MSI still have the legal claim to his ownership? does this mean West Ham effectively "stole" his services for the end of the season? WTF IS GOING ON!!!

shatners basoon

I think it means his contract with MSI and anything this 3rd party had to do with the transfer was terminated. His contract with west ham remains valid or something. Must be some letter then. If MSI do have legal claim for his ownership then surely they'd speak out unless its really shady.... wouldn't want msi getting hold of any of my players.....

Oooooooo...... oooooooooooo...... ooooooooo....... oooooooooo....... oooooooo......ooooooooooo.........

PHB

So wait, do West Ham own him?

Surely they must own him now, otherwise it's in breach of the premier league regulations

Mitch Connor

PHB wrote:

So wait, do West Ham own him?

Surely they must own him now, otherwise it's in breach of the premier league regulations

No they don't own him, but they don't need to. Everton didn't own Howard til February, Watford didn't own Foster, Pompey didn't own Johnson etc, you don't have to own the players you play. The issue with West Ham and Tevez was that, as part of the contract, MSI could withdraw Tevez from the west ham squad at any time for any reason they liked; this ment MSI could influence the team selection of west ham and were thus a 3rd party influence on team selection, which is against the rules and what west ham were done for. It is an odd rule and ruling, considering the current loan system seems to be in breach of it as well but the FA don't want to get ni to that.

What West Ham apparently did was rip up the piece of the contract that allowed MSI to pull Tevez out of the team at any time. How they have done this legally is beyond me, and i'm sure that is going to be the main argument for any teams that appeal the ruling.

PHB

Ok, so if somebody was to buy him, he would be buying him from MSI?

Is there any doubt about that?

Mitch Connor

He would be bought off MSI, according to reports. West Ham do not own him, so will not be entitled to any money from his purchase.

redspider

Tauren wrote:

The issue with West Ham and Tevez was that, as part of the contract, MSI could withdraw Tevez from the west ham squad at any time for any reason they liked; this ment MSI could influence the team selection of west ham and were thus a 3rd party influence on team selection, which is against the rules and what west ham were done for. It is an odd rule and ruling, considering the current loan system seems to be in breach of it as well but the FA don't want to get ni to that.

You're right. The loan system is one of the gripes that I have as it allows the bigger clubs to extend their influence, loan good players to the lower teams yet have a clause that prevents the same good players from playing against the club that owns them. That to me is extending a clubs influence too far and possibly in breach of the leagues own rules.

The main problem with Tevez is that MSI are not a football club. If Tevez was owned by Corinthians, as originally thought, then both he and Mascherano would have been on loan to West Ham from Corinthians and there would have been no problems. As it was, it was a loan fom MSI and I understand a pay-for-play type of deal - which is why Mascherano was left on the sidelines as West Ham's owners didnt want to pay/have the dosh for the two of them.

Fifa and Uefa are also involved in trying to sort out this mess from the sidelines as they dont want to see third-party and non-club companies owning players as it would change the structure and the power-base and their control of the sport/money.

This is going to end up in the courts, I have no doubt. Its a sorry mess. If I was a West Ham fan, I wouldnt count my chickens just yet!

redspider

leninbenjamin

Tauren wrote:

What West Ham apparently did was rip up the piece of the contract that allowed MSI to pull Tevez out of the team at any time. How they have done this legally is beyond me, and i'm sure that is going to be the main argument for any teams that appeal the ruling.

how can they only tear up that part of the contract? surely that would mean the entire contract would declared null and void and have to be renegotiated, no? and there are suggestions that MSI didn't agree (or weren't consulted) about this. so is tevez able to play without a contract between the parties? Is there sill an actual agreement between the parties??? it still doesn't make a lick of sense...

I actually agree with Dave Whelan, there should be full disclosure of the agreements made.

Mitch Connor

leninbenjamin wrote:

how can they only tear up that part of the contract? surely that would mean the entire contract would declared null and void and have to be renegotiated, no? and there are suggestions that MSI didn't agree (or weren't consulted) about this. so is tevez able to play without a contract between the parties? Is there sill an actual agreement between the parties??? it still doesn't make a lick of sense...

I actually agree with Dave Whelan, there should be full disclosure of the agreements made.

exactly, the entire thing is very shady; i obviously do't have access to the contracts so I can't be sure of what they say, i can also not be sure of what west ham have or have not done in relation to the contracts. But, if what I have read in the papers is true(its in the papers so it must be true.... ) they i do not understand how the player is legally allowed to play for west ham.

However, I have also read that the premier league have backed the action west ham have (or are reported to have) taken in relation to the contract and will actively support West Ham if MSI try to take them to court over what MSI see as a breach of contract.

BaZmO*

redspider wrote:

You're right. The loan system is one of the gripes that I have as it allows the bigger clubs to extend their influence, loan good players to the lower teams yet have a clause that prevents the same good players from playing against the club that owns them. That to me is extending a clubs influence too far and possibly in breach of the leagues own rules.

I don't have a problem with this at all because if a team takes a player on loan they know from the time of taking the player that he won't be able to play if the sides meet.