Metro says licenced firearms holders are violent Criminals

Sparks

Here we go:


We might get more tomorrow, so many went in.
Well done all!

Clare gunner

Grassroots networking ROCKS!!
BTW would be nice too if somone would mention our little group and network in the next issue of Irish shooters digest???And that the fact that it was the "little guys" that put in a fair amount of time behind their screens to lobby the powers that be.

Sparks

BTW would be nice too if somone would mention our little group and network in the next issue of Irish shooters digest?

Off ye go, email to info@irishshootersdigest.ie

Vegeta

I don't think its a good idea to credit this forum with any grass roots movement as then i think it stops becoming a grass roots movement and more of a boards.ie movement

But it is definitely a good idea to highlight the movement in general and praise all the shooters for their commitment to the sport and encourage more letter writing etc.

What makes a better statement 100 e-mails, letters etc from individuals or 3 letters from governing bodies.

Sparks

I don't think the forum can take credit for writing the letters veg, but we can take credit for being a source of information and being a forum for discussion and that sort of thing and that's no small thing - and it's something vital to every grassroots movement.

What makes a better statement 100 e-mails, letters etc from individuals or 3 letters from governing bodies.

I'm on the record here as a member of a governing body that the former gets more notice than the latter, even if the latter is a useful thing too at times.

Vegeta

Sparks wrote:

I'm on the record here as a member of a governing body that the former gets more notice than the latter, even if the latter is a useful thing too at times.

Yeah maybe this forum should get credit for co-ordinating and focusing our efforts. Again though don't credit the forum as the grass roots movement but credit it for helping it

Yeah governing bodies do indeed have their uses, if the grass roots movement gets the required reaction then the governing body can be the point of contact with the powers that be.

Sparks

governing bodies do indeed have their uses

Yup. Though, speaking as a member of one, I think that perhaps they take too much on themselves. I think that they should basicly be administration rather than governing, if you follow me. 'Course, there are others who think differently. And where the balance point is is not clear. But that's a matter for another thread...

Clare gunner

I don't think its a good idea to credit this forum with any grass roots movement as then i think it stops becoming a grass roots movement and more of a boards.ie movement

Lets say a grassroots movement of gun owners that used computor technology and their own inititive and that coordinatred thru the shooting section of boards.ie to get the message across to the political parties.

Vegeta

Clare gunner wrote:

Lets say a grassroots movement of gun owners that used computor technology and their own inititive and that coordinatred thru the shooting section of boards.ie to get the message across to the political parties.

perfect

fishdog

This was printed in the Metro on Fiday

Sparks

Thanks fishdog, I missed the Metro on Friday. Pity they mangled the letter Oh well.

fishdog

After my letter was printed in the Metro (letter shown post no.42) I sent a letter back suggesting that the editor should either back up his story with some facts or apologise. I recieved this email in response from the editor of the Metro.

I was unsure if it was a good idea to post it or not.

What do you think?


Afternoon, Mr XXXXXXX,

There have been various reports over recent years that the number of
officially licensed firearms turning up in the hands of criminals and being
used in crime is growing.
Various agencies, including farmers' unions, countryside alliance groups,
and the Garda have warned those with legally-held firearms to take extra
care to ensure they are locked away as the incidence of thefts (guns being
stolen to order) has grown.
Research suggests about one in four gun crimes involves a weapon that has
been legally registered.
As regards the number of weapons in Ireland, a quick review of licensed
firearm holders in the UK, for example, shows there are about 154,000 -
that equates to about one for every 376 people; in France there are about
140,000 registered firearms holders, about one per 400 people.
Clearly, the issue of guns, who owns them, why, what they are used for,
where they end up, should we have them, should the An Garda Siochana be
armed, is a complex one and not one I propose to get into here.
It may be something, given the response to the story from readers, Metro
will explore in the future.

With kind regards

Mark Dorman



This email has been responded to in a suitable manner!

rrpc

Just as a quick response to the figures quoted in that reply. The number of Firearms Certificate holders in the UK does not equal the number of firearms in circulation, and is not a valid comparison with Ireland.

In the UK, the person is licenced, and not the firearm as here. Secondly air rifles and pistols are off-cert in the UK and on-cert here.

So the number of FAC holders would not be within an asses roar of the actual number of firearms in circulation (as defined in Ireland).

Oh! and airguns are off-cert in France too.

And there is no such research, suggestive or otherwise. Unless sitting on a bar stool constitutes research.

The minister has said in the Dáil that the Gardaí have no records of legally held firearms being used in crime... None

Aren't .22 guns off license in France as well?

Someone was saying that you don't need a cert when travelling through...

fishdog

Im not sure ianinnash. But, I was told by a french shooter that you did not need a license for a 12ga shotgun in France, but to be honest his english was about as good as my french (not very good) so I may have picked him up wrong. Does anyone know??

This show Mr. Dorman's letter to be even more inaccurate than it already appears!

rrpc

France is a bit complicated (as you would expect ) There are three levels:

Free: no licence of any kind required - Airguns under 10 Joules, antiques and deacts.

Declaration: You make a declaration to the police and sign the firearms register, you also need a hunting licence or a target shooting licence. - Airguns over 10 Joules
Shotguns; single, double, three shot and combined shotgun/riflle.
Rifles; single shot, repeaters (less than 10 shot), semi-auto (non-removable mag: 3 shot or less) and express types.

Authorisation: Everything else except certain prohibited types that I won't go into here.

There is no limit on the number of firearms under declaration or free. Limit of 12 under authorisation (max 7 handguns).

So the number of firearms certificates that the bar stool journalist in the Metro was quoting was the tip of the iceberg. You could multiply his number by 12 and still not be close to the real figure.

An article in the London Independent put the actual figure to be about 30 firearms per 100 population which would put French legally held firearms somewhere in the region of 13 million!

The same article put the UK figure at about 5 million, and the average EU figure at 17 percent of the population.

If we were to reproduce the EU average, we would have 700,000 legally held firearms!

Lazy, lazy journalism :mad:

astraboy

rrpc wrote:

Lazy, lazy journalism :mad:

Meh! Its a free paper, I would not expect ground breaking journalism. To be honest the metro does not seem to be the kind of paper most people would generate what you could call an "informed opinion" from! Glad to see the emails were responded to, consider it a dry run for when other such articles are printed in national papers in the future.

Clare gunner

Add onto that;that military calibres are restricted[IE 223 ,9mm ,308 etc]
But it isnt that great a deal to get the same type gun in say 222.10 mm or 300 win mag.If you really want it in the orginal calibre it is abit more paperwork but dooable.
Getting the permit isnt that hard if you are a resident in the country,even for "les Irlandes":) If you have asecond residence in France,you nip down to the local Marie[mayor]and have a word.He usually is most obliging on that point.The hunting liscense is a bit different,but not as tough as the German one.Once you have it you have it for life.

OTOH,you can buy ammo,switch blades,knuckle dusters ,CS gas etc over the counter in the supermarket,or flea markets.
Plus the French know that there is plenty of "surplus "from ww2 stashed away in old farmers and former resistance fighters closets and barns.But as one Gendarme said about it." These men and women are heros of France They fought and died for it's liberation.Why should we worry about them and their momentos of those times??":eek:
Imagine THAT sort of thought process with the Gardai!:)

Victor

Clare gunner wrote:

Plus the French know that there is plenty of "surplus "from ww2 stashed away in old farmers and former resistance fighters closets and barns.But as one Gendarme said about it." These men and women are heros of France They fought and died for it's liberation.Why should we worry about them and their momentos of those times??":eek:

And we are still finding hand grenades from the 1920s.

Although Belgium is still finding 9 inchers from a few years before that.

dimebag249

Clare gunner wrote:

These men and women are heros of France They fought and died for it's liberation.Why should we worry about them and their momentos of those times??":eek:
Imagine THAT sort of thought process with the Gardai!:)

Logic? Guards? You gotta lay of that cordite CG! We honour our heroes at pompous photo-op parades, what more do you want? After independence our founding fathers, having just used illegally obtained guns to free their fellow countrymen from tyranny decided they would deny their people the right to be able to do the same. That kind of hypocracy runs through all our gun laws.

EDIT: Actually should I delete this before the censors ban me for being un-PC?

Clare gunner

Dont I know it! So wouldnt that kind of thought process over here be."shure dem oul fellas who fought for Ireland,shure they proably have an old Webly or lee enfield parked somehere in the cow barn.Let them to it.They have done nothin with for 70 odd years,they at 90+ are hardly going to start anythin now." In another demsion no doubt:rolleyes:
Maybe there is some logic in that bumper sticker
Fear the Govt that fears your gun ownership.