Dobies and rots and other breeds

Ruby Soho

Its the same with westies, some people get them thinking they are cutesy chocolate box dogs that love to get their hair cut, when in reality they are tenacious, head-strong little gurriers! They're just not disciplined enough as pups and let away with murder. When you do see them with owners that have a bit of cop on, they're grand little things.

Lauragoesmad

I don't believe any dog should be banned but I do think that you should have to have a proper cert like a qualification to have big powerful dogs. This in my opinion would be for the dogs wellbeing. I know most dedicated dog owners would take a week out of their lives to have the breed that they love. This could even be a cert in dog handling. I don't think the types that just want a "hardshaw" dog would go to the trouble. I know this would be very hard to enforce but if I was running the country........:p
I have seen young guys aged about 14/15 out with all different types of dogs in Dublin and Liverpool who just have no control over them.

fatmammycat

biko wrote: »

Rotweiler
Doberman
Pitbull
all should be illegal in Ireland in my opinion. Sure I know other dogs can be dangerous too but these seems to be the biggest offenders and are bred to kill. They are skanger dogs used to intimidate other people.

Really? Biggest offenders you say. How many Doberman attacks can you quote within the last five years? I'm genuinely curious. I had a doberman for years, well socialised, trained, exercised, and I never EVER had a problem with him. He was naturally aloof and an exceptional watch dog, but never aggressive. Like wise the groomer my sister goes to own a female doberman, an absolute charming dote of a dog. So I'd like to understand where your poor opinion of them stems from.

EGAR

Very funny, Biko . I am a middle aged woman with a University degree and I keep/rescue/work with Bull Breeds, mostly APBT (American Pit Bull Terriers - in case you don't know what APBT stands for ). I rehome APBT, Rottis and the occasional Doberman into families. I am sure they would be less than pleased to hear you call them Skangers.

I do not own a track suit, nor do I have bleached hair and loop ear rings.

I am very sorry to have burst your little bubble of ingorance after all it is said to be bliss :pac:

The Artist

EGAR wrote: »

Very funny, Biko . I am a middle aged woman with a University degree and I keep/rescue/work with Bull Breeds, mostly APBT (American Pit Bull Terriers - in case you don't know what APBT stands for ). I rehome APBT, Rottis and the occasional Doberman into families. I am sure they would be less than pleased to hear you call them Skangers.

I do not own a track suit, nor do I have bleached hair and loop ear rings.

I am very sorry to have burst your little bubble of ingorance after all it is said to be bliss :pac:

+1!

~Thalia~

I agree with most of the above posts in that it is owners that make bad dogs.

Nor do I sport gold hoops, a kappa tracksuit and bleached blond hair and I have a GSD who is the most loyal affectionate dog. She is well trained and not a 'killer' as someone mentioned above. Picture of her below.

As always it is people who destroy animals and it's people's treatment of dogs that shapes the type of dog they are.

Love dogs like dobies and rotties and bull breeds.

The Artist

Skangers is not a nice word to be saying for these posts.imo look at the wellknown people like pop stars ,rappers,film stars etc own these type of dogs too!And oh! even the royal family has the bull terriers! would any one call them skangers!:cool:

bilbo79

davey180 wrote: »

would any one call them skangers!:cool:

Yes i'd say so..

kerrysgold

biko wrote: »

Rotweiler
Doberman
Pitbull
all should be illegal in Ireland in my opinion. Sure I know other dogs can be dangerous too but these seems to be the biggest offenders and are bred to kill. They are skanger dogs used to intimidate other people.

Are you serious?! :mad:
Do you know anything about dogs?!
All the dobies & german shepherds that have been in my family & that I've met have been adorable, sweet tempered dogs who wouldn't hurt anybody! And from what I've seen of them, pit bulls look like they make wonderful pets when they have a good owner!

and as for being "bred to kill" rotties & german shepherds are actually like the german version of our border collies etc, they are herding breeds. well actually rotties (and dobies as well) are a "working" breed and german shepherds are a "herding" or "pastoral" breed.

Morganna

Oh Biko you are very silly .i have owned ,bred .worked and shown German shepherds all my life.they are a super breed ,so loyal affectinate and brainy.I learnt to walk holding onto a german shepherd as did my son.Its the bad peole who have no understanding of dogs that should be banned .
Also practically everyday in Dublin some one is murdered should we then ban people !

Crazyivan 1979

Biko: I have never heard such a stupid comment. Judging by the bio on your profile, your interests include "drinking and fighting", skangers like you should be banned from Ireland!!:mad:

The Artist

Crazyivan 1979 wrote: »

Biko: I have never heard such a stupid comment. Judging by the bio on your profile, your interests include "drinking and fighting", skangers like you should be banned from Ireland!!:mad:

and from this forum imo.

lightening

He's a troll, has been warned about it before, I reckon we should just ignore him.

stevoman

i have experience from both side sof the fence and its not the breeds that are the danger its either the owner OR the individual temperment of the dog (and the owners responsibility to identfiy that!)

We have a rottie in out haouse and he is the softest dog i have ever come across. he would never hurt a fly and is literally afraid of everything (espeically and sharp noise). But at the same time we would never leave him with a child!

About 21 years ago my grandparents had a golden retreiver and from what i have been told was always a good dog. well my granny went down to hang up some washing and left me alone with the dog. i was about 6 years old and i bit the dog on the tail, and yes you guessed it i got 26 in my head for my troubles. How many of the doogooders are out there trying to get golden labs made illegal?

Of course the dog was put down immediatly and a lesson was learnd in my house that no matter what type of breed a dog is it should never be left with a child. It just goes to show you that no dog can be trusted. Its just a pity that the bigger breeds are sometimes seen as fashion accesories by young idiots and this in turn leaves these dogs left unsupervised and thats how a lot of attacks happen.

The Artist

im a lover for all dog and other pets.
i say this now matter what happens IMO any animals bite its their nature and a territorial thing.
having said that i have tropical fish and when i feed them they bite my finger too,even if i put me finger in they are like piranas!

Morganna

My god they will be banning fish next lol

cotton

Oh dear, it seems like I've been going about this all wrong. I better get to the shops & buy some dye, hoops & tracksuits immediately, then come home teach my dobies & shep to kill.:rolleyes:
I'll start with the biggest one who is at this moment rolling around on the bed with one of the cats, tyring to get his mr men teddy off him & loosing big time.:p

biko

Morganna wrote: »

Oh Biko you are very silly .i have owned ,bred .worked and shown German shepherds all my life.they are a super breed ,so loyal affectinate and brainy.I learnt to walk holding onto a german shepherd as did my son.Its the bad peole who have no understanding of dogs that should be banned .
Also practically everyday in Dublin some one is murdered should we then ban people !

Sorry I haven't been back and for causing such a stir. It's been a year since this topic started and looking back my wording was less than nice.
I didn't mention German Shepherds at all. In fact they are great reliable dogs used by both police/military and also make good tempered pets. I know several families that have them and would perhaps even get one myself. I like big well-mannered/trained dogs.

Perhaps I should clarify my point of view: I agree with The Dangerous Dogs Act UK that bans pitbulls and I think it should be expanded to Rottweiler and Dobermans too. The reason for this is that in the US, the Rottweiler is the number two breed of dog named in fatal human attacks from 1979 to 1998 in a report by the CDC. Rottweilers are a powerful breed with well developed genetic guarding and herding instincts, and prey drive. (I'm aware German Shepherds are on that list too, as michelleans said).
The Doberman is apparently a great dog but I have some less than nice experience from them.
Looking at the stats you see how much higher the first two breeds are that rest.

In Ireland the biting dogs seem to be of other races:

“The majority of the dogs involved in the attacks were male dogs between 2-6 years old, over 10kg in body weight and were among the popular breeds of Collies, Cocker/Springer Spaniels, Terrier breeds, Jack Russell Terriers, German Shepherds, and Golden Retrievers,” said O’Sullivan. “And the biting incidents were equally likely to occur in rural and urban/suburban areas.”more stats

@ lightening, not trolling but I can understand if a different view on this topic, in this forum, can be construed as such. There was an old thread somewhere (After Hours?) about this where I voiced this opinion before and butted heads with Nala or Mairt.

Perhaps a Gardai Dog Licence would be the best option for Ireland, rather than banning dangerous dogs outright?

lightening

biko wrote: »

In Ireland the biting dogs seem to be of other races..... Perhaps a Gardai Dog Licence would be the best option for Ireland, rather than banning dangerous dogs outright?

If its other breeds that are doing all the biting why have Gardai dog licenses for the breeds you mentioned? According to the stats you have just posted there isn't a problem.

biko

Good question.
I posted just one study. In Ireland there is no official reporting mechanism for dog bite incidents and specific data on the incidents is not readily available from hospital accident and emergency records.

However, if these dogs cause much concern in US and UK the problem is most likely present here too, or may soon be.

Smaller dogs may be more inclined to bite but will cause smaller injuries, bigger dogs can maim/kill.

A licence test at your local Gardai station will pretty much let any responsible person through but filter out undesirables, unless they buy a dog that does not require licence. Think of it as a fire arms licence. A scary dog can be just as intimidating as a gun pointing at you.

lightening

Maybe, the thing is, its really not a problem here. There are much much bigger problems with humans than dogs!

cowzerp

biko wrote: »

The reason for this is that in the US, the Rottweiler is the number two breed of dog named in fatal human attacks from 1979 to 1998 in a report by the CDC. Rottweilers are a powerful breed with well developed genetic guarding and herding instincts, and prey drive.

Rottweilers are also the 2nd most popular pet in the u s so thats to be expected. also this would be from guard dogs(junk yard dog types) and not pets-there is a world of difference as 1 is just guarding its area and the other is a socialised pet that loves people, whenever these are in the papers it turns out there pure guards and usually kept in industrial yards or pubs etc..or else abused dogs that are just left isolated in back gardens and unsocialised.. I have a huge 1 and everyone loves him as he's like a teddy bear, and he is still a great guard too.

Noopti

I have no experience owning German Shepards or Dobies. However the only encounters I have had with either have been fantastic. They are such intelligent, loyal dogs and being so intelligent they require good, responsible ownership.

I have also never heard of any Doberman attacks in this country, but that is just from my own memory.

wyk

All dogs have the capabilities to be vicious. Not all dogs have the capabilities to seriously injure, maim, or kill an adult human...

WYK

kerrysgold

biko wrote: »

Rotweiler
Doberman
Pitbull
all should be illegal in Ireland in my opinion. Sure I know other dogs can be dangerous too but these seems to be the biggest offenders and are bred to kill. They are skanger dogs used to intimidate other people.

you obviously know nothing about dogs. no dog was ever "bred to kill" pit bulls were bred back when they used to use dogs to "bait" bulls and bears etc. they were never bred to be aggressive to humans. rotties were bred to herd & guard livestock in germany. Dobies were bred to just look intimidating I think as they were bred by some tax collecter guy who wanted people to pay up.

We've had dobies and GSD's in the family for years (none at the moment sadly) and we are certainly not "skangers" all our dogs have been lovely, friendly dogs because unlike the scum who give these dogs a bad name, they were treated well and trained properly and not abused and trained to be vicious.

I've never met an aggressive one yet. the only dogs I've ever been attacked by have been terriers! because their owners let them get away with so much.

you can't generaralise.

like the the incident in England around xmas '07 I think, where the small girl was killed by the pit bull *type* dog. Immediately, oh, we must ban all the pit bulls.

it came out afterwards that the idiot who owned the dog was a drug-dealer so more than likely the dog was trained to be vicious.

so they were comparing abused dogs owned by drug-dealers to well-behaved, well trained family pets, putting them all under the same umbrella and saying ban the lot. it's ridiculous.

The Artist

kerrysgold wrote: »

you obviously know nothing about dogs.

+1

friendly dogs because unlike the scum who give these dogs a bad name, they were treated well and trained properly and not abused and trained to be vicious.

Good point.

it came out afterwards that the idiot who owned the dog was a drug-dealer so more than likely the dog was trained to be vicious.

Thats true.

so they were comparing abused dogs owned by drug-dealers to well-behaved, well trained family pets, putting them all under the same umbrella and saying ban the lot. it's ridiculous

.
+1

biko

So what I'm hearing is "Dogs don't kill people. People kill people"
Recognise this miss-quote?

I still think a dangerous dog licence would be good, better than banning them outright.

The Artist

quote=biko;55946688
Dogs don't kill people
People kill people

If dogs dont kill people means their harmless
people kill people mean they are murderers
whats murdered people got to do with dogs?

Intothesea

biko wrote: »

Perhaps a Gardai Dog Licence would be the best option for Ireland, rather than banning dangerous dogs outright?

I think this is a good way to move forward. These
super-intelligent breeds require unusually committed
and aware owners.

Licenses (requiring both cash and proof of
special awareness) for the win

peasant

biko wrote: »

So what I'm hearing is "Dogs don't kill people. People kill people"
Recognise this miss-quote?

I still think a dangerous dog licence would be good, better than banning them outright.

Other countries have tried this, with the result that money was wasted on administration and testing, testers had to be employed, dog training became more expensive, owners were hugely inconvenienced, whole breeds of dogs stigmatised ...



....and those "owners" that were supposed to be weeded out just gave the two fingers to the whole system and carried right on misusing/abusing their dogs.