A sad day....

murphaph

The first of four IRA men convicted for the killing of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe was released from prison today.

O'Neill, from Patrickswell, Co Limerick, was jailed in 1999 for his role in the manslaughter of Det Gda McCabe, who was shot dead during a raid on a post office in Adare, Co Limerick, on June 7th 1996.

He was involved in the preparation of the raid but did not fire the fatal shots.

Jeremiah Sheehy, Pearse McAuley and Kevin Walsh, who were also convicted of the manslaughter of the garda, are likely to be released within the next two years.

Despite repeated attempts to release the men under the terms of the Belfast Agreement, they faced fierce resistance from the officer's widow, Ann McCabe, Garda representative bodies and politicians on both the Government and Opposition benches.

Earlier this year, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern defended O'Neill's release, saying that the Prison Service had no legal authority to detain him beyond that date.

Det Garda McCabe's brother-in-law, Pat Kearney, said the family would ignore the man's release.

Obviously from the thread title I am not best pleased that any of these animals see the light of day. I'll not shed a tear if this individual is run over by a bus as he steps out the prison gates.

smashey

Such is the justice system.

Zambia

People like this and worse are released daily , when your time is done your time is done.

Liam Byrne

Odd, isn't it, that "he was involved in the preparation [i.e. planning] of the raid", but the conviction was manslaugher (i.e. an unplanned killing).

Anyways, we should at least be glad that Bertie wasn't allowed do his u-turn just before the Northern Bank Robbery and this scum was off the streets for at least the minimum amount of time required.

And Zambia is right; the sentencing in this country is a joke on lots of crimes, and this one was no different. The time in prison was apparently a joke, with these guys having more perks than an average, non-convict, honest Joe on minimum wage, although you've got to bear in mind that they had to put up with regular visits and photo shoots from their supporters - Gerry Adams & Co.

Where I'd differ with Zambia is that there aren't many people worse than those who shoot innocent people and law enforcement.

I'm far from happy that he's out either - IMHO, he should have been hung for attempted murder of a cop - but it at least seems like everything that could be done was done to the letter of the law; just a pity he and his buddies didn't consider doing the same.

Judt

You can only keep them so long as they are sentenced. Still, we live in a country where you can be out in three years for raping somebody - after having the sentence suspended in the first place. The government is going a ways to giving tougher sentences, but judges won't use them.

Time Magazine

You can't portion all the blame on the judges. Most of it is the fault of the government. Absolute disgrace.

Am I the only person who thinks these types of guys shouldn't be let out for at least 15 years from sentencing? That murder should actually result in a 25 years to life sentence?

Villain

TBH I'd probably be better off not posting on this topic as every time I do people simply think I'm a Sinn Fein or IRA supporter. The fact is O'Neill has served the same time as any criminal would have for the same sentence.

The fact is these criminal's should have been released under the terms of the GFA the same way the person who was convicted of the murder of James Morgan was released and I don't remember anyone posting here the day he was released.

Just to make it clear I don't support the IRA or these criminal's the killing Garda McCabe was wrong and criminal, I'm simply posting the other side of this story.

Time Magazine

irish1 wrote:

The fact is O'Neill has served the same time as any criminal would have for the same sentence.

It's so much more complicated than that and you know it. It's not that long ago you could have been put to death for murdering a member of the force.

Answer one question: how many bullets were fired at the incident?

Zambia

If Gerry McCabe was an RUC officer he would have probably got out under the GFA. Which would also have been wrong.

Time Magazine

irish1 wrote:

The fact is O'Neill has served the same time as any criminal would have for the same sentence.

It is so much more complicated than that and you bloody well know it. How the fuck ANYONE can claim firing 14 rounds from an AK-47 at Gardai before they had the opportunity to raise their rifles is not cold-blooded murder I do not know. It is an absolute disgrace that any of this filthy IRA scum, who had the gall to appear with green ribbons for the release of Republican prisoners in court, should be let out before at least twenty years has been served I do not know.

They're scum. Absolute scum. Manslaughter my hole.

RalphCifaretto

he should have been hung for attempted murder of a cop

Hung from what? A big hook?:rolleyes:

Villain

Ibid wrote:

It is so much more complicated than that and you bloody well know it. How the fuck ANYONE can claim firing 14 rounds from an AK-47 at Gardai before they had the opportunity to raise their rifles is not cold-blooded murder I do not know. It is an absolute disgrace that any of this filthy IRA scum, who had the gall to appear with green ribbons for the release of Republican prisoners in court, should be let out before at least twenty years has been served I do not know.

They're scum. Absolute scum. Manslaughter my hole.

I'm dealing with facts and not emotion, the fact is the man was convicted of Manslaughter in an Irish Court of law, you can argue that was wrong but it won't change the fact.

Rock Climber

irish1 wrote:

I'm dealing with facts and not emotion, the fact is the man was convicted of Manslaughter in an Irish Court of law, you can argue that was wrong but it won't change the fact.

Lol
The Sinn Féin colours are strong in this post Pedwan.

aidan24326

The sentences handed out in this country are a joke.

Sure, he's served his time as it was handed down, but that doesn't change the fact that the sentence was way wrong to begin with.

Like ibid said, I fail to understand how spraying a guy with bullets from a powerful military rifle can possibly be manslaughter. It is 100% murder. Commit the same crime in the US and you'd go down for murder of a cop, guaranteed life sentence without parole. You aint getting out.

Here you can murder somebody (in this case a detective) in cold blood and you serve 8 years. Crazy. Those men should have got an absolute minimum sentence of 20 years, with no chance of release before that and the likelihood they'd serve 25+.

EDIT: what sickens me most of all is that these men, and those who would support them, like to portray themselves as representing some sort of cause, or even as representing Irish people in general. Well they don't speak for me or any other decent Irish person. They are thugs. Simple as that. That they are thugs with a Bobby Sands tattoo and a direct line to Gerry Adams doesn't alter the fact that they're still brutal thugs who in fact broke one of the IRA's own golden rules which is do not shoot at members of the Irish police or defence forces.

Zambia

No not really it is a fact he was a criminal and served his time according to law. Thats all I get from Irish1 's post. In fact he even stated he was not SF something someone who supported them tends not to do.

Rock Climber

Yeah but we read a lot of posts over longer years than you have been posting here zambia and most of them on subjects like this are "oh I don't support them but"...[insert apologism here] which was the basis of my last comment.

Just saying I see it for what it is,at least its consistent I suppose.

Villain

Rock Climber wrote:

Lol
The Sinn Féin colours are strong in this post Pedwan

I take it you mean Padawan? although I'm not really a fan of Star Wars and I'm also no aprentice to any Jedi Knight or even Gerry Adams as I think thats what you were trying to imply.

Rock Climber wrote:

Yeah but we read a lot of posts over longer years than you have been posting here zambia and most of them on subjects like this are "oh I don't support them but"...[insert apologism here] which was the basis of my last comment.

Just saying I see it for what it is,at least its consistent I suppose.

Have a read of every post I have made and find me one where I have said I support the IRA or the men convicted of garda McCabes killing?

TBH I couldn't care less what you or Tristrame think you know about what I do or don't support, I'm a well educated person who doesn't simply go along with the usual opinion I listen to and read the facts and then make my own opinon. For whats it worth I don't support the IRA and I think these men are criminal's but rather than just look at this case in isolation I have looked at simalar cases and posted facts.

Sand

Ah well, heres to O'Neills future career in politics. He has all the qualifications neccessary for a long and successful career as a Sinn Fein TD.

Oh and btw - thanks for the laugh Irish1. Not a SFIRA supporter.... Classic material man, keep it coming.

Zambia

Rock Climber wrote:

Yeah but we read a lot of posts over longer years than you have been posting here zambia and most of them on subjects like this are "oh I don't support them but"...[insert apologism here] which was the basis of my last comment.

Yes but I see no SF support in what he posted this thread. I see your naming him as in the SF camp as wrong.

His piont was pretty much simialar to my one he was caught convicted and sentenced his time is done. He is also right on the GFA piont that there are scumbags walking around up North that have shot soldiers & Police officers in worse circumstances and are free under the GFA.

Example (http://www.ruc.police.uk/press/1997/june/lurgan.htm)

Constable Roland John Graham, 34 years and his collegue David Andrew Johnston, 30 years, a Full Time Reserve officer, were doing a community beat patrol of Church Walk, Lurgan when two people ran up behind them and callously shot them in the back of the head at close range shortly before 12 noon on Monday 16 June 1997

And the killers of all these officers are out and about by now to under the GFA or have simply served there time.
http://www.wewillrememberthem.co.uk/niruc.htm

RTE.JULY.2000 wrote:

Among those granted freedom today are some of the North's most notorious Republican prisoners, including Brighton bomber Patrick Magee; Sean Kelly, who was convicted for his part in the Shankill bombing in 1993 that killed nine Protestants; IRA man, Thomas Begley; Docklands bomber, James McArdle, and those convicted of the murder of Lance bombadier, Stephen Restorick, the last British soldier to be killed in the North. Also due for release is leading Loyalist, Torrens Knight, convicted of a total of 12 murders, including the those at the Rising Sun bar in Greysteel in October 1993.

Source
http://www.rte.ie/news/2000/0728/prisoners.html

So while your indignation is admirable and IMO correct there have been as bitter or worse pills to swallow by Northern familys. We have a stable peace now and thats the price that was paid for it.

Oh and if anyone can prove irish1 is a SF supporter well then there please feel free to post your evidence cause I have just had a cursory glance at his posts and all I found was a few posts asking for a level headed approach to the subject of SF or the IRA. Sorry irish1 I am sure you can handle your own defence from now on.

RalphCifaretto

So what if he is an SF supporter?? That doesn't limit his ability to engage in rational discussion.

Sand

Yes but I see no SF support in what he posted this thread. I see your naming him as in the SF camp as wrong.

Having dealt with him on many threads over the years, I find it laughable when he denies he supports SFIRA. Typical, but still laughable.

So what if he is an SF supporter??

So nothing actually, its just weird that he mirrors SFIRA policy/Gerry Adams views on every subject then acts insulted when hes identified as supporting SFIRA. Either way, its not the subject of the thread.

So while your indignation is admirable and IMO correct there have been as bitter or worse pills to swallow by Northern familys. We have a stable peace now and thats the price that was paid for it.

True, But I havent noticed the families of victims in the North throwing a celebration for the release of their loved ones murderers, nor cheerleading their election campaigns either.

The release of these men wasnt going to be greeted happily by anyone - other than by SFIRA who have been campaigning for years to get them out. This case has more attention - rightly or wrongly - because the victims widow was forced to campaign for justice and embarrassed the Irish government into not selling out to Adams.

Villain

Sand wrote:

Oh and btw - thanks for the laugh Irish1. Not a SFIRA supporter.... Classic material man, keep it coming.

LOL believe what you want to believe Sand, I know what I believe and people can read my posts and make their own mind up, btw show me ONE post where I have said I support the IRA go on just one Sand, I challenge you to find one.

A Dub in Glasgo

I don't get this?

A person served a sentence that was handed down to him by the Irish state. The Irish state cannot keep him in prison any longer as that would be illegal. We have a poster on the politics forum starting a thread saying he prefers if this guy would not see the light of day and it would not be a bad thing if the person was killed or injured by a bus!!!

Such an insightful thread

Villain

Sand wrote:

Having dealt with him on many threads over the years, I find it laughable when he denies he supports SFIRA. Typical, but still laughable.



So nothing actually, its just weird that he mirrors SFIRA policy/Gerry Adams views on every subject then acts insulted when hes identified as supporting SFIRA. Either way, its not the subject of the thread.

I have posted on many topics here and I can assure you I don't mirror Gerry Adams views on every single one of them, I only posted last week that I didn't want to see Sinn Fein in government after the election because they don't have the experience.

Start another thread if this one isn't suited, but I challenge you to show everyone that I support the IRA or that I mirror Gerry Adams views on every subject.

Rock Climber

Thats right shur didn't Gerry Adams condemn the killing of Gerry McCabe this morning on pat kenny.
He was trying to say he'd condemned it before but Anne McCabe rang in to say this was the first time.Sincere? In the same breath he said the killers,his friends and martin feris's best friends should be out...

Oh and wait for it Angus o snodaigh wants the special branch abolished and those in it out on the beat and in the traffic corp etc... he says he wants an end to their political policing...

Villain

That the only reply you have to my post Rock Climber?

Sand

I have posted on many topics here and I can assure you I don't mirror Gerry Adams views on every single one of them, I only posted last week that I didn't want to see Sinn Fein in government after the election because they don't have the experience.

Start another thread if this one isn't suited, but I challenge you to show everyone that I support the IRA or that I mirror Gerry Adams views on every subject.

Cant be bothered really. Would it change anything? Would I win the internet?

Lets face it. The most controversial difference of opinion you can find is that you dont want them in government after this election because you think theyre inexperienced? I take it all back, clearly you have a major axe to grind with SFIRA on a whole host of policy issues.

Villain

Sand wrote:

Cant be bothered really. Would it change anything? Would I win the internet?

Lets face it. The most controversial difference of opinion you can find is that you dont want them in government after this election because you think theyre inexperienced? I take it all back, clearly you have a major axe to grind with SFIRA on a whole host of policy issues.

Can't be bothered or simply can't backup your claim? I think I already know the answer tbh.

One thing I don't do is make sweeping remarks about a poster and then fail to back them up, just looks bad doesn't it?

Attack the post not the poster?

Rock Climber

In fairness irish1,I remember many posts here where you were going yay for sinn Féin in terms of being quick to laud how many seats they were going to get at elections and oozing delight.
I've also seen what looks to me like a veiled pretence of apologism covered with a bit of oh I don't support them but but but...etc

Anyone thats been reading this forum for a few years will get a feel for what kind of post to expect on certain topics from the regulars.

Now lets get back on topic.

Villain

Rock Climber wrote:

In fairness irish1,I remember many posts here where you were going yay for sinn Féin in terms of being quick to laud how many seats they were going to get at elections and oozing delight.
I've also seen what looks to me like a veiled pretence of apologism covered with a bit of oh I don't support them but but but...etc

Anyone thats been reading this forum for a few years will get a feel for what kind of post to expect on certain topics from the regulars.

Now lets get back on topic.

I never said I don't support Sinn Fein on some policies, but thats not what Sand has accused me of I think I am entitled to reply to that, I don't want to drag this off topic but you and Sand are trying to tell me what I believe without proof.

Will you at least admit that in relation to this thread topic I have always said I condemned the killing of Garda McCabe and said that those found guilty are criminals and I don't support the IRA?

Rosita

Liam Byrne wrote:

Odd, isn't it, that "he was involved in the preparation [i.e. planning] of the raid", but the conviction was manslaugher (i.e. an unplanned killing).

It's not odd. It is quite clear. According to the court decision the raid was planned by this man but the killing wasn't. One happened as a result of the other but wasn't directly planned, hence the manslaughter verdict.