Bertie Vs Enda

bget

The media seems to be pitting Bertie and Endas against oneanoter. What are peoples feelings on this issue.
I think Enda is preferable. Bertie despite his 'common man' front strikes me as very false and i do believe that at the back of it all he is a very sly and astute man. Some people are saying that Enda is not up to it but i think he should be given the benifit of the doubt and if he is he could end up suprising a lot of peope. Everyone takls about all the good bertie has done and how he should be brought back to finish the good work he has done in the health system. My opinion there is he has already had ten years to work on the health system and where has it got us.. to te point where nurses are so fed up with conditions that they are going on strike.. Not exactly a blazing success.. And hospital delays in a&e are getting worse and what does Bertie do?? closes or resuces servies in regional hospitals.. Am i the only one who fails to see the sense in that??
Really interested to see what people think....

Senator

My opinion for what it's worth is that today's speech by Bertie at Westminster only served to emphasise that BOTH he and Blair have had their 10 years in office and it's time to move aside and make way for someone new on both sides of the Irish Sea.

lunapark

you know, i think what everyone is forgetting, in fairness to FF, is that the last ten years have been a whirlwind of events, everything has happened so quickly, economy wise, jesus who would have thought that in ten years time there would have been more than .5 million immigrants in this country!!!!
SO sorry, but FF have'nt done too bad at all, considering the blast of events that have changed tha face of Ireland in the last two govt. terms...
and of course, easy for snivelly little Enda to take the throne and refine ten years of blood sweat and tears. I'm sorry he drives me mad- remember the amount of cheap shots he took at bertie AND his family( divorce etc.) regarding those 'payments' bertie received- what a great guy to lead an inspirational country on many grounds (esp. economy ) like Ireland.

Money Shot

Senator wrote:

BOTH he and Blair have had their 10 years in office and it's time to move aside and make way for someone new on both sides of the Irish Sea.

We really do need a change at this stage. Fresh faces, fresh ideas - a new way of doing things. We need politicians that care in power. In my opinion Bertie doesn't care. He is primarily concerned with his Northern Ireland legacy in a historical context. I think most FF TD's have become used to their jobs and don't try as much as they should. They are in the comfort zone. It happens to everyone who stays in a job too long - you become stale.

Saruman

Bertie gets my vote, better the Devil you know!
Enda is a muppet.

Money Shot

Senator wrote:

BOTH he and Blair have had their 10 years in office and it's time to move aside and make way for someone new on both sides of the Irish Sea.

We really do need a change at this stage. Fresh faces, fresh ideas - a new way of doing things. We need politicians that care in power. In my opinion Bertie doesn't care. He is primarily concerned with his Northern Ireland legacy in a historical context. I think most FF TD's have become used to their jobs and don't try as much as they should. They are in the comfort zone. It happens to everyone who stays in a job too long - you become stale.

Money Shot

Senator wrote:

BOTH he and Blair have had their 10 years in office and it's time to move aside and make way for someone new on both sides of the Irish Sea.

We really do need a change at this stage. Fresh faces, fresh ideas - a new way of doing things. We need politicians that care in power. In my opinion Bertie doesn't care. He is primarily concerned with his Northern Ireland legacy in a historical context. I think most FF TD's have become used to their jobs and don't try as much as they should. They are in the comfort zone. It happens to everyone who stays in a job too long - you become stale.

Aesop

In any election the leader of FF and FG are pitted against one another. These direct comparisons however are usually down to personality contests. You don't become leader unless you are sly and astute so it is all about public perception. Ahern in the past has been bulletproof and to a large extent still is. I think the decline of FF in the polls is less to do with Ahern and more to do with the real issues economy, health, crime, education.

For this reason I think FG are staying away from a direct competition between the two for as long as possible. Ahern will win any one to one comparison with Enda, only question is can FF sink far enough in the polls that it won't matter.

Money Shot

Senator wrote:

BOTH he and Blair have had their 10 years in office and it's time to move aside and make way for someone new on both sides of the Irish Sea.

We really do need a change at this stage. Fresh faces, fresh ideas - a new way of doing things. We need politicians that care in power. In my opinion Bertie doesn't care. He is primarily concerned with his Northern Ireland legacy in a historical context. I think most FF TD's have become used to their jobs and don't try as much as they should. They are in the comfort zone. It happens to everyone who stays in a job too long - you become stale.

Money Shot

Senator wrote:

BOTH he and Blair have had their 10 years in office and it's time to move aside and make way for someone new on both sides of the Irish Sea.

We really do need a change at this stage. Fresh faces, fresh ideas - a new way of doing things. We need politicians that care in power. In my opinion Bertie doesn't care. He is primarily concerned with his Northern Ireland legacy in a historical context. I think most FF TD's have become used to their jobs and don't try as much as they should. They are in the comfort zone. It happens to everyone who stays in a job too long - you become stale.

Money Shot

Senator wrote:

BOTH he and Blair have had their 10 years in office and it's time to move aside and make way for someone new on both sides of the Irish Sea.

We really do need a change at this stage. Fresh faces, fresh ideas - a new way of doing things. We need politicians that care in power. In my opinion Bertie doesn't care. He is primarily concerned with his Northern Ireland legacy in a historical context. I think most FF TD's have become used to their jobs and don't try as much as they should. They are in the comfort zone. It happens to everyone who stays in a job too long - you become stale.

smemon

sinn féin all the way, that would freshen things up a bit

Senator

Hello again, campers. We're back on air after that wee blip (above).

Looking ahead and taking into account all the changes over the past decade and those we might expect to come in the next decade or so, I'd say that in the medium future we'll do away with Fianna Fail and Fine Gael and they will re-align themselves into one party. There's little enough between them now anyway. The immigrants and other developments will help proper Left-Right politics emerge instead of the sham Civil War pantomime we have at present.

Sleepy

I don't get why people are so anti-Kenny and for the life of me I don't understand the liking for Ahern (besides the fact he's made great fodder for Today FM's Gift Grub).

The man has led the country for 10 years yet the only political belief I can ever remember him expressing was his rather ludicrous claim to be a socialist :rolleyes:

Bottle_of_Smoke

Sleepy wrote:

I don't get why people are so anti-Kenny and for the life of me I don't understand the liking for Ahern (besides the fact he's made great fodder for Today FM's Gift Grub).

He sounds bitter & moany. This may be warranted but there's a reason car salesmen are always smiling.

DeepBlue

Saruman wrote:

Bertie gets my vote, better the Devil you know!
Enda is a muppet.

I wasn't aware Bertie and Enda were running in the same constituency .

bemmet

Think it was well summed up on questions and answers last night
"if Bertie and Enda were going for a job as CEO of a listed irish company ,Enda would not even get called for the interview" .

It is a sensible question you ask as i wonder about all this "its time for a change" drivel. Its pure nonsense, if its policy you dont like fine .But change for changes sake, makes me worry when we are dealing with running a nation .

Avns1s

bemmet wrote:

Think it was well summed up on questions and answers last night
"if Bertie and Enda were going for a job as CEO of a listed irish company ,Enda would not even get called for the interview" .

.

Neither would Bertie and if he was they'd likely be wondering if he was on a backhander from the suppliers!

Jonny Arson

I still am astonished people fall for this fake ''Bertie''TM image spun up by the FF marketing department. The Bertie that is seen on stage reading a script for a speech is a very different Bertie from the clueless moron spouting crap in an interview or making baseless arrogant attacks on everyone in the Dáil. Enda may never become a stand up comedian but at least the man comes across as sincere and genuine on all occasions and a man with standards and unlike Comrade Ahern, has some idea of what he is talking about. Neither of them are my ideal individual for Taoiseach but Give me Kenny over Ahern anyday.

lunapark wrote:

you know, i think what everyone is forgetting, in fairness to FF, is that the last ten years have been a whirlwind of events, everything has happened so quickly, economy wise, jesus who would have thought that in ten years time there would have been more than .5 million immigrants in this country!!!!
SO sorry, but FF have'nt done too bad at all, considering the blast of events that have changed tha face of Ireland in the last two govt. terms...
and of course, easy for snivelly little Enda to take the throne and refine ten years of blood sweat and tears. I'm sorry he drives me mad- remember the amount of cheap shots he took at bertie AND his family( divorce etc.) regarding those 'payments' bertie received- what a great guy to lead an inspirational country on many grounds (esp. economy ) like Ireland.

Don't tell me things are that slow in FF HQ Bertie!

funktastic

Change is always good. This is not the case when the alternative is so poor and lacking in experience/policies.

Jonny Arson

funktastic wrote:

Change is always good. This is not the case when the alternative is so poor and lacking in experience/policies.

I don't get the ''no experience/policies'' argument. I dunno if you mean you don't agree with thier policies or you're trying to say that have no policies and if it is that latter then that is just ignorant.

Regards experience, FG and Labour were part of a very successful rainbow coalition from 1994-1997 and Enda Kenny was a Minister so the whole ''experience'' argument doesn't hold much weight

funktastic

Yeah, minister for tourism and Trade. Great experience. Rabbitte would be a much better Taoiseach. He is able to talk on issues off hand. Kenny just keeps reverting back to his 'contract' that he has signed for a better Ireland.

Jonny Arson

funktastic wrote:

Yeah, minister for tourism and Trade. Great experience.

The man has played a major part in taking FG from the dark days of 2002 to having one step as the next government. You can't dispute the man is doing something right and has good abilities needed to be leader of this country.

If Ahern can supposedly do it I bloody can!

funktastic

Yeah, well he's got a struggling outfit back into shape a bit. Fair play to him, but the job is a bit bigger than that. It's like promoting someone who's only experience is managing Walsall to be manager of the Irish team. Oh wait...

brianthebard

funktastic wrote:

Yeah, minister for tourism and Trade. Great experience. Rabbitte would be a much better Taoiseach. He is able to talk on issues off hand. Kenny just keeps reverting back to his 'contract' that he has signed for a better Ireland.

Well considering how important tourism and trade is to our economy, especially at the time when Kenny was minister, I think it was good experience. As for Rabbitte being taoiseach, well yeah I'd like that myself but even in the tanaiste position he'll be able to make his voice heard. The whole point of government is that its not dependant on one person, hence the arguments about Kenny are fairly void once he has party support and gets the votes required at the polls.

funktastic

Ahern has plenty of experience, Cowen has way more valuable experience than anyone on the FG/Labour side as Minister for finance, previous health minister and Transport and I feel he would be a much better Taoiseach than Ahern.

Being a minister for tourism and Trade doesn't really equip you to deal with other world leaders/managing the business of a country.

Brendan Howlin, Ruairi Quinn from Labour and Richard Bruton, Enda Kenny and Sean Barrett from FG are the only people with ministerial experience.

Yes the government isn't about one person, but i think some sort of experience will be necessary. If FG/Lab/whoever get in, it more-than-likely won't be with a strong enough majority, and without strong leadership and pressure from Rabbitte etc there will be another general election in 18 months.

Sleepy

I have to say, I think you FF supporters are woefully underestimating Kenny.

Personally I'd love to see Quinn take back his Finance Ministry, the man didn't put a foot wrong back in the days when managing the budget wasn't simply a matter of how best to prop up the property bubble.

I'd agree with funktastic that Cowen would be a far better Taoiseach than Ahern, although I don't think he'd be able to control the bag of cats that is FF nearly as well as the 'great compromiser' (easy to compromise when you've no beliefs of your own). Cowen would be one of the few FF politicians I could describe as capable but unfortunately it seems you need more spin skills than economic ones to run this country (just ask Fitzgerald).

bget

Jonny Arson wrote:

I still am astonished people fall for this fake ''Bertie''TM image spun up by the FF marketing department...... Enda may never become a stand up comedian but at least the man comes across as sincere and genuine on all occasions and a man with standards and unlike Comrade Ahern, has some idea of what he is talking about....

Dead on I totally agree with you... Bertie has speech writers galour for public events(and yat still occasionally manages to **** up) but when he has to talk off his out bat he's a dodering fool. While Enda may not have the charm or the big 'car sales man smile' he's consistant.. That's what this country needs. Some one who knows what he's talking about...

bget

oops apologies about the *'s.. Got a bit carried away

JerkyBoy

I see two people.

1) A man of questionably trustworthiness, with very poor communication skills, and a record of not delivering on his promises, and no record of accountability (nor is he offering any).


2) A man with no suspicious baggage attached to him, with excellent communication skills, and what appears to be a genuine eagerness to deliver on his promises, with a promise to hold himself and others accountable.

It's an easy choice for me. Enda Kenny.
I never had much interest in the guy in the last few years but recently I've found him quite impressive.

But if Enda becomes Taoiseach and then doesn't deliver, while having the means to...I will be as critical of him as I am of Bertie right now.

Bertie could not deliver on his promises when the country had unlimited resources...I have no faith that he will deliver on them if the economy slows down.

Enda is unproven...but being unproven is more appealing to me than being proven bad, which Bertie has been.

Mitzy

Enda has the charisma of a staple - if I have to look at him for the next 5 years..........................