Should Ireland rejoin the Commonwealth

Zambia

Hmm I think it would be a weak gesture ... Nothing more cant even see Unionists cheering for it. Unionists ring in to complain BBC Radio Ulster if they even discuss the south...

Always open to ideas though

Next ...

FTA69

speaktofrank wrote:

Not a chance in hell, unless it was part of a deal that would see Ireland reunified. Nobody in their right mind would approve of it anyway. I can't see Fianna Fail going for it either. De Valera would be rolling in his grave, it was after all his government which withdrew from the Commonwealth and declared the 26 counties a republic in 1949.

Ironically it was Fine Gael who declared the south a republic! Neither wouldn't be extolling the Republican virtues of a man who hired an English hangman to execute IRA Volunteers.

To be honest I think its a redundant question, why should any part of this country be associated with the last vestiges of the British Empire? The whole sense of a commonwealth confers some sort of legitimacy onto that entity and its something all Irish people should reject.

The Corinthian

RalphCifaretto wrote:

The British Commonwealth is rapidly losing all relevance. It is the manifestation of Britain's desperate refusal to let go of its crumbling empire.

Well, yes, it is a bit of a silly organisation with rather limited benefits – at least nowadays and given we’re already an EU member. My main objection to joining is actually that I’m not certain it’s even worth joining rather than all this man in an armchair behind the man behind the man behind the man behind the wire nonsense.

This is the Empire that occupied, raped and pillaged this Island. The empire that's bloody legacy is still on display for all to see.

Yes indeed. The railroads and roads they built are atrocious.

Seriously, what did the Romans ever do for us?

RalphCifaretto

which desperate refusal would that be then?

When it became clear that the considerable discontent within the commonwealth would ultimately lead to its break up, the British government decided that in order to preserve what was left of the empire, the nature of the commonwealth would have to change. The concessions made at subsequent imperial conferences were desperate attempts to maintain the last institutions of the empire.

Im not aware of ANY such desperation in the UK, and since you quite clearly dont know how a Briton thinks -

I agree. The opinion of the British public doesn't seem to carry much weight with government when it comes to the formation of foreign policy.

Yes thats the life we yearn for!! Yeah! Rape and pillage, hundreds of thousands dead, revolution galore, invasion, conscription, starvation YES!! Bring it all back.....and hell while we are at it lets start sending 8 year olds down the pits again, that was funny, and we can even ban abortion, make christianity compulsory (depending on who is on the throne), and take that vote BACK from our women so they can go back to the kitchen where they belong.

I've no problem discussing this with you, please try to avoid ranting incoherently and misrepresenting my points. It's quite clear the British people do not want to return to the barbarity of the empire.

The point remains however, the commonwealth is essentially an imperial entity and association with it means association with past deeds of the british empire.

And as for your 'legacy' statement - sure...the bloody Romans left a legacy which is STILL clear to see

No one is proposing membership of an organisation of former roman colonies.

the British are not the only ones on this planet to have done despicable things - high horses all round!

No they are not.

The Corinthian

RalphCifaretto wrote:

No one is proposing membership of an organisation of former roman colonies.

*COUGH*Treaty of Rome*COUGH*

RuggieBear

RalphCifaretto wrote:

No one is proposing membership of an organisation of former roman colonies.

erm...the EU is basically an organisation of former roman colonies.:D


edit. damn the corinthian...

RalphCifaretto

The Corinthian wrote:

*COUGH*Treaty of Rome*COUGH*

sceptre

RalphCifaretto wrote:

Which is entirely irrelevant.

May be irrelevant to the issue but it can't be irrelevant to the thread as I'm merely answering a question that someone else asked. Piddle.

odonnell

RalphCifaretto wrote:

I've no problem discussing this with you, please try to avoid ranting incoherently and misrepresenting my pointsQUOTE]

....then please try to avoid coming off as a very smug anti-Brit, and then neither of us will have any problem.

Lots of people can claim a heritage of attrocity and in far more modern times too... time has passed, lets not drag it all up again for kicks, because now its about as relevant as the commonwealth.

Back on topic though - in terms of sheer principal, I dont feel Ireland should be looking to join the commonwealth. You have an indipendant nation here, you have the liberty and good fortune to now make your own path in the EU - why look for further allignment with the UK? If it were up to me my homeland would be on the very same path (Scotland).

RalphCifaretto

then please try to avoid coming off as a very smug anti-Brit, and then neither of us will have any problem.

Obviously nobody intends to come across as smug. I don't exactly know what you mean by anti-brit. I oppose British imperialism, as I do all Imperialism. The fact that British Imperialism has had such a profound effect upon my country means the issue is quite close to the bone.

Lots of people can claim a heritage of attrocity and in far more modern times too... time has passed, lets not drag it all up again for kicks, because now its about as relevant as the commonwealth.

I personally find it very relevant to the whole notion of the commonwealth, for reasons I have outlined above.

Back on topic though - in terms of sheer principal, I dont feel Ireland should be looking to join the commonwealth. You have an indipendant nation here, you have the liberty and good fortune to now make your own path in the EU - why look for further allignment with the UK? If it were up to me my homeland would be on the very same path (Scotland).

I'm glad to see we are fundementally in agreement.

Fratton Fred

RuggieBear wrote:

might win some medals for once tho...

Might be worth waiting for those pesky Aussies to leave first, they're a bit good.:D

joecoote

Can anybody really take this thread seriously? Ireland is a 21st century democracy. It is a Republic. It is a member of the European Union. Is anyone seriously advocating a retrograde return to an outdated colonial structure whose titular head is a remnant of medieval priviliedge?

A great advertisement for a progressive Ireland.

RalphCifaretto

Is anyone seriously advocating a retrograde return to an outdated colonial structure whose titular head is a remnant of medieval priviliedge?

Apparently so.:rolleyes:

Dub13

joecoote wrote:

Can anybody really take this thread seriously? Ireland is a 21st century democracy. It is a Republic. It is a member of the European Union. Is anyone seriously advocating a retrograde return to an outdated colonial structure whose titular head is a remnant of medieval priviliedge?

A great advertisement for a progressive Ireland.

I think the fact that we can talk about this is a great advertisement for a progressive Ireland.

darkman2

From my point of view I dont think we should have anything politically to do with Britain. Be good freinds and all that through
the EU and United Nations but the fact is the country next door devided our country and oppressed the country for a very long time. I know someone here will say 'get over it' or something like that but that oppression will always have consequences and Ireland not joining the commonwealth is part of its legacy. Our country remains devided - thats the reality. The crime inflicted on this country that is Northern Ireland is not easy to forget. Until its sorted out the commonwealth will have a sour taste to most Irish people despite the fact it is no longer Empire and little more then a talking shop.

SeanW

Dub13 wrote:

I think the fact that we can talk about this is a great advertisement for a progressive Ireland.

The fact that we can talk about it - good.

The possibility of it actually happening - BAD!

Ireland is a 100% independent republic (EU membership excepted) and in my view, and the view of any right-thinking Irish person, is that it should stay that way.

blorg

There are 53 Commonwealth states. The Queen is head of state of only 15 of these (Canada, Australia, etc.) In fact the _majority_ of Commonwealth states are republics (31.) You have heard of India I presume.

Ireland actually shares many many _more_ actual constitutional ties with Britain than any actual Commonwealth state does (voting and citizenship rights, our own mini-Schengen area, etc.)

End of the day the Commonwealth is a symbolic cultural and trade organisation of free association and people get far too worked up about it here. It is hardly an institution wielded by Her Majesty to exercise a continuing power over her former dominons.

Personally I am more than happy that we are no longer locked into a state with those shower of tossers over the water but perhaps we could also develop a somewhat realistic picture of what the Commonwealth actually means.

At a minimum we might just get free-to-air BBC.

odonnell

blorg wrote:

There are 53 Commonwealth states. The Queen is head of state of only 15 of these (Canada, Australia, etc.) In fact the _majority_ of Commonwealth states are republics (31.) You have heard of India I presume.

Ireland actually shares many many _more_ actual constitutional ties with Britain than any actual Commonwealth state does (voting and citizenship rights, our own mini-Schengen area, etc.)

End of the day the Commonwealth is a symbolic cultural and trade organisation of free association and people get far too worked up about it here. It is hardly an institution wielded by Her Majesty to exercise a continuing power over her former dominons.

Personally I am more than happy that we are no longer locked into a state with those shower of tossers over the water but perhaps we could also develop a somewhat realistic picture of what the Commonwealth actually means.

At a minimum we might just get free-to-air BBC.

Thik yourself lucky you arent one of those 'tossers' then, because they have to pay £120 a year for the privelage of the BBC.

Zambia

blorg wrote:

Personally I am more than happy that we are no longer locked into a state with those shower of tossers over the water but perhaps we could also develop a somewhat realistic picture of what the Commonwealth actually means.

At a minimum we might just get free-to-air BBC.

Charming well considering your opinion is living back in the 1920's i think the bbc was free then so I will excuse you oversight.

LordSutch

Flex wrote:

No. I think its great that Ireland and Britain have such great relations today, but Im not revisionist enough to think we should rejoin the Commonwealth. Wouldnt be of much benefit considering how few countries in the Commonwealth are in the EU (Malta and the UK, isnt it?).

I think the real problem is down to the lingering post-colonial mentality in this country (and a little fickleness too tbh), 'Ireland and Britain have good relations today, so hell, lets forget everything that happened in the past and act like we were always the best of friends like good little Paddies', type of thing. Im sure they probably had that attitude in the US for a while too after independence though.

Thats if you agree with the 'Colonial' thing in the first place ~ (I dont) ~ but personally speaking, I think re-joining the Commonwealth would be a good & healthy gesture towards the North & Britain, & could in theory go a long, long way to "actually securing a United island" not to mention the many Political & Cultural benefits we would get out of being a member of such a diverse club/community.

"Lets woo the Unionists for once" instead of keeping them at arms length!

odonnell

ArthurF wrote:

Thats if you agree with the 'Colonial' thing in the first place ~ (I dont) ~ but personally speaking, I think re-joining the Commonwealth would be a good & healthy gesture towards the North & Britain, & could in theory go a long, long way to "actually securing a United island" not to mention the many Political & Cultural benefits we would get out of being a member of such a diverse club/community.

"Lets woo the Unionists for once" instead of keeping them at arms length!

but if theyre kept at arms length, you can be free to blindly despise them and all you think they stand for. Youre free to keep the picture youve painted of them in its pride of place above your fire and curse the very mothers that spawned them....

if you enter into treaties with them - youd only be forced to put history to bed, would you not?

Generational inherited bile and reconciliation are very awkward bedfellows mate.

gurramok

ArthurF wrote:

Thats if you agree with the 'Colonial' thing in the first place ~ (I dont) ~ but personally speaking, I think re-joining the Commonwealth would be a good & healthy gesture towards the North & Britain, & could in theory go a long, long way to "actually securing a United island" not to mention the many Political & Cultural benefits we would get out of being a member of such a diverse club/community.

"Lets woo the Unionists for once" instead of keeping them at arms length!

How about Unionists wooing us for a change?...Gestures are both ways ya know!

A referendum will have to be called on whether re-joining and accepting herself as head of state rather than so called in touch politicians deciding the outcome.

ScottishDanny

WHAT FOR?
I can't see the merits of joining this old boys club (with some very dodgy members). Ireland does OK with its EU involvement and good international profile as it is. I didn't hear Paisley insisting on ROI joining the Commonwealth so I don't think it would make much diference to NI unionists.

Can we get a simple poll on the issue?

16airassualt

it dosent matter wether it would be a good idea or not,its not an option.if the government even hinted at doing anything such a thing,well thhink of the love ulster parade riots*1000,000

16airassualt

anyway,remember bloody sunday??would we want to be part of a country that rewarded its officers for shooting innocent irish civilians in cold blood...the divide is just to much+it would be making a mockery of the war of independance which many irish people sacrificed there lives so we could be free from the commonwealth as we are now

robinph

gurramok wrote:

A referendum will have to be called on whether re-joining and accepting herself as head of state rather than so called in touch politicians deciding the outcome.

It would have absolutely nothing to do with having herself as head of state and nothing would change politically in that regard. All that would happen is that Bertie, or whoever his replacement is, gets to go off to somewhere exotic for a meeting with all the other countries PM's every now and then.

But Ireland would stand a chance of winning a couple of medals in their next mini Olympics, at least until the US decide to rejoin as well.

darkman2

It would be wise for some here to remember that up until only ten years ago the British were treating this country as a nuisance. Anyone remember Thatcher? As I already said the legacy of oppression in Ireland will mean there will never be great relations with our neighbour. They can start off by leaving the illegitmate state to our North which I want to remind people was setup to:


a: to f**k us over for several generations

b: to ensure our country was kept in its place

Until they realised that not even England would escape that anger did they start taking our country seriously. Unfortunately that was after Thatcher's reign. Commonwealth? - What a crock of bullsh*t. I dont think the majority of Irish people want anything politically to do with Britain - and rightfully so. The EU is were the real future is.

robinph

darkman2 wrote:

I dont think the majority of Irish people want anything politically to do with Britain - and rightfully so. The EU is were the real future is.

The UK is in that little club as well you know.

luckat

Can't see any point in joining <shrug>. It's a pointless organisation.

Zambia

darkman2 wrote:

As I already said the legacy of oppression in Ireland will mean there will never be great relations with our neighbour. They can start off by leaving the illegitmate state to our North which I want to remind people was setup to:

a: to f**k us over for several generations

b: to ensure our country was kept in its place

Until they realised that not even England would escape that anger did they start taking our country seriously. Unfortunately that was after Thatcher's reign. Commonwealth? - What a crock of bullsh*t. I dont think the majority of Irish people want anything politically to do with Britain - and rightfully so. The EU is were the real future is.

Eventually mate you and your sort will pass on and all this bitterness you revel in will pass along with it.