The Minor Final

Senator

I don't know what happened my first thread on this, but here goes again.

I'm looking forward to the "Minor Final" tonight on RTE when the Leaders of the Labour Party, Greens, PDs and Sinn Féin go head to head.

In particular, it'll be interesting to see Justice Minister Michael McDowell squaring up to Gerry Adams (who isn't even a candidate) whom he was claiming only a few months ago was on the IRA Army Council. Remember Gerry hopping up and down outside Leinster House and daring McDowell to have him and Martin McGuinness arrested ?

Who do you think will be the winners and losers in tonight's debate ? And do you think Adams should be there when he doesn't even have a vote in the election ?

yomchi

Well its not about who is for election or not. They are not there representing themselves but representing their parties. As Adams currently sits as the most popular political leader in the southern state (58% in last poll by Indo) I think he has every right to be there. To state otherwise would be foolish. He is also the leader of a party that may hold the balance of power come the next sitting.
My money will be on Adams to come out shining, he always does well in public performances. I'm remembering the last one with Ruari Quinn on the late late which Adams came out on top - poor opposition I know but still.

What Adams has that none of the others have is charisma and inate ability to relate to his flock. McDowell will come off as being hot headed - I'd bet he'll loose the head more than once. Rabbitte will be quiet and smirky as ever and Sargent I reckon will be lost in the melee.

Adams TKO

is_that_so

Jon wrote:

Well its not about who is for election or not. They are not there representing themselves but representing their parties. As Adams currently sits as the most popular political leader in the southern state (58% in last poll by Indo) I think he has every right to be there. To state otherwise would be foolish. He is also the leader of a party that may hold the balance of power come the next sitting.
My money will be on Adams to come out shining, he always does well in public performances. I'm remembering the last one with Ruari Quinn on the late late which Adams came out on top - poor opposition I know but still.

What Adams has that none of the others have is charisma and inate ability to relate to his flock. McDowell will come off as being hot headed - I'd bet he'll loose the head more than once. Rabbitte will be quiet and smirky as ever and Sargent I reckon will be lost in the melee.

Adams TKO

No argument about charisma but Adams suffers from not having enough experience in normal electioneering here. He is not on such solid ground as when he debates the North and issues related to it.

SF "policies" to date such as they are, have been complete waffle. But as you rightly point out he'll be speaking to "his flock".

The other politicians have an opportunity to remind us they exist , especially Sargent, who really needs to do something to halt the Greens drift downward.

No expectations of the whole thing and will record it for later.

Chardee MacDennis

yeh the greens have been quiet but so have labour compared to previous elections, thank god!!

Villain

Labour tried to prevent Adams from being allowed take part in this deabte when it was announced some months ago which imo just showed how afraid they are of his debating skills, he has debated with some very tough people in the North on some very tough topics so this is one place where he has experience but as someone else said he is not used to discussing the policies in as much detail.

McDowell will get a roasting from all the others and someone else pointed out he will probably just turn and maybe call someone a Nazi! god knows.

Pat Rabbite is an excellent speaker who rarely loses his cool and I would think he will come out of this very well, Sargent will find it tough going but if there are questions on green issues you would expect him to make some impact although I think he will end up defending their transport policies more than anything else.

Should be interesting viewing.

yomchi

Adams has a good team of briefers in the back ground. He rarily goes into these things not fully equipped. As for his debating/arguing skills, in 1972 when the rest of them were considering a life of politics Adams was in talks with the British govt about withdrawl!

Adams.. 3rd round stoppage at this point

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Rock Climber

Senator wrote:

I don't know what happened my first thread on this, but here goes again.

It's down at the middle of the page with zero replies did you even look?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055093432

I'm locking it now though as you opened this second one.
Don't be opening multiple threads it clutters the place.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

raven136

Sargent could come out the worst in this,his public performances seem to be weak.Maybe its harsh to say he comes across as mix between arrogant and whiny.
Adams and Rabbite should do well with Mcdowell erupting at either one of them at some point.

The_Minister

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Same thing happened when I tryed to access it.

It could well have ended up with Rabbitte+Adams+Sargent v. McDowell, if it wasn't that the recent polls mean that Sargent need Labour/FG to loose some ground if the Greens are to see power, now it will probably be a free-for-all. Which should be fun.

yomchi

raven136 wrote:

Sargent could come out the worst in this,his public performances seem to be weak.Maybe its harsh to say he comes across as mix between arrogant and whiny.
Adams and Rabbite should do well with Mcdowell erupting at either one of them at some point.

The real war will between left and right. Adams V McDowell, Rabbitte and Sargent will be the liberal undercard.

Senator

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Yes, the Mods on Boards.ie are very tetchy, unlike on others. Lighten up, lads.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

yomchi

Good point Dave, I reckon as has been said that the Mullah will probably be the target of all the other 3. He is the one with a brutal record in govt.

Voipjunkie

irish1 wrote:

Pat Rabbite is an excellent speaker who rarely loses his cool and I would think he will come out of this very well,

.

I don't agree I think Rabitte loses the cool all the time he can be very good but sometimes he is a bit sanctimonious

If McDowell justs shows Rabitte a picture of Rory O'Hanlon then watch Rabitte go.

The_Minister

I broadly agree with Dave, but I also think that Adams will go for McDowell. SF have never forgiven him for highlighting their "indescretions" and they're refusal to admit they were wrong.

raven136

As said previously Adams at 58% is hugely popular,maybe attacking Mcdowell would be a great move for him.Adams does very well in these things despite having no clue about politics down here,he was awful on Gerald Barry's show on radio one.

Rock Climber

Senator wrote:

Yes, the Mods on Boards.ie are very tetchy, unlike on others. Lighten up, lads.

We're not.I do apologise though,as I didn't open the other one at all.I can lock any thread by double clicking on the icon beside it.
I simply saw the two threads, saw one with zero replies and then saw your first line on the 2nd one which I did open and which I quoted when issuing the instruction not to be cluttering the board.
I suppose it would have been a bit much for to expect you to pm one of us when a problem like that occurs,please do so in future though thank you.
In the past 3 days for one reason or another there are only 2 mods available to be active most of the time to wade through this now very busy board.
We usually have five.Full police patrol should resume soon
They are coming in but real life is curtailing their presence temporarally.

Again my apologies for the confusion.

Back on topic.I'm quite looking foward to this.

yomchi

He'll be prepared!!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Senator

I see some posters above crediting Adams with great debating skills. As a northerner myself of some vintage I would dispute this. I'll grant you that SF usually shove Adams out front when they want a good rant with Gerry playing the victim of unfair questioning and spluttering on about everyone being against SF, but when there is serious negotiating to be done McGuinness is the man sent in to bat.

As for Adams' popularity in opinion polls in the Republic, that would soon plummet if he was put in charge of any failing public service - but Adams is too cunning to actually accept ministerial office where his shortcomings would be swiftly exposed. Better to fence sit and play the victim.

yomchi

Senator wrote:

I see some posters above crediting Adams with great debating skills. As a northerner myself of some vintage I would dispute this. I'll grant you that SF usually shove Adams out front when they want a good rant with Gerry playing the victim of unfair questioning and spluttering on about everyone being against SF, but when there is serious negotiating to be done McGuinness is the man sent in to bat.

As for Adams' popularity in opinion polls in the Republic, that would soon plummet if he was put in charge of any failing public service - but Adams is too cunning to actually accept ministerial office where his shortcomings would be swiftly exposed. Better to fence sit and play the victim.

Adams is a much cooler candidate under pressure, and he's the parties biggest selling point. McGuinness, as much as I personally like the man isn't a great performer - not half that Adams is.

On another note, the greens are setting the mood for this evenings showdown;

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=MHKFAUSNGBKF

I prefer Gormley myself, I think his bite has more teeth than Sargents gums.

raven136

Senator wrote:

I see some posters above crediting Adams with great debating skills. As a northerner myself of some vintage I would dispute this. I'll grant you that SF usually shove Adams out front when they want a good rant with Gerry playing the victim of unfair questioning and spluttering on about everyone being against SF, but when there is serious negotiating to be done McGuinness is the man sent in to bat.

i'll take you back to the debate between himself and ruari quinn,ye almost felt sorry for quinn by the end,Adams tore him apart.Totally agree that McGuinness would be more than a match for any of them.

Michael Martin got up labour's nose with his"just 3 points ahead of sinn fein from being the 3rd biggest party in the country" on questions and answers.Hilarious

Senator

raven136 wrote:

i'll take you back to the debate between himself and ruari quinn,ye almost felt sorry for quinn by the end,Adams tore him apart.

Well, you see Adams & Co. have had a long history of tearing people apart as I know from personal experience.

raven136

Senator wrote:

Well, you see Adams & Co. have had a long history of tearing people apart as I know from personal experience.

hope for their sake thats not brought into the debate

yomchi

I'm sure they'd be impressed with you insinuating either one of them was involved in assaulting someone

yomchi

The pre-fight warm up gets better..

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=MHKFAUSNGBID

Money Shot

That's hilarious - he got the publicity he was after anyway...

BeatNikDub

raven136 wrote:

Sargent could come out the worst in this,his public performances seem to be weak.Maybe its harsh to say he comes across as mix between arrogant and whiny.
Adams and Rabbite should do well with Mcdowell erupting at either one of them at some point.

Ive seriously been thinking John Gormley would be better for this.
He is an excellent speaker, likeable and doesnt lose his cool.
Im worried for the Greens tonight.

Dave!

raven136 wrote:

[
i'll take you back to the debate between himself and ruari quinn,ye almost felt sorry for quinn by the end,Adams tore him apart.

Anybody got a link to this debate by any chance? Do ye know what date it was on? I had a search on the RTÉ website but to no avail