Why are the PD's singled out for criticism all the time?

Avns1s

enda1 wrote:

And doing nothing in health? Have you been asleep for the last month?? She has stood up to the 'poor girls' and not given into their sensationalistic and ridiculous demands. It shows strong conviction and character to take this more difficult route coming up to elections.

As someone with an avid interest in current affairs, I can honestly say that I haven't heard Mary Harney utter one single word on the nurses dispute, various people from the HSE yes, Bertie yes, Liam Doran et al yes, but Big Mary... not a word. So may you're right she has stood up to them, she's a big girl after all but she didn't take a prominent position by real saying anything about the nurses dispute. Brave alright!:rolleyes:

A Primal Nut

Its obvious from how people are treated on the likes Prime Time that there is a left-wing bias.

Voipjunkie

darkman2 wrote:

Look at the big names within RTE - Richard Downes, Vincient Browne, Marian Finucane, Tom McGurk...........all lefties by any stretch of the imagination - but there is no way RTE are anything but left wing because their jobs depend on it!:p Anyway back on topic?

That is some stretch of your imagination your problem is that if they are not praising the PDs non stop like your used to in the Irish Times and Independent then the only possible explanation is they must be crypto socialists it can not be that they balanced or attempting to be balanced.

mike65

Lara, yes you're right.

Mike.

darkman2

Voipjunkie wrote:

That is some stretch of your imagination your problem is that if they are not praising the PDs non stop like your used to in the Irish Times and Independent then the only possible explanation is they must be crypto socialists it can not be that they balanced or attempting to be balanced.

You keep saying 'your'. I dont read the Irish times. I read the Irish Independent which is for us mere mortals.

Once again I dont support the PD's, im only making an observation that they always get hopped on for everything that goes wrong.

darkman2

They really want to get thier message across dont they -






Complete with the red background and all trying to portray Labour and the Greens as evil............I dont think they are that evil tbh but the Greens are IMO misguided.

Of course it has to be said one of the problems with the PD's is the way they attack other parties - not too fond of this method personally.

Voipjunkie

mike65 wrote:

They are left-bias which is not always the same thing. They show thier bias in the guests they choose to have on various programmes and how these guests are treated and how long those guests have to expound thier views and how often they get the chance. For example - middle-east discussion is dominated by the likes of Patrick Cockburn, Laura Marlow (sp) and of course
Robert Fisk who's collective bias is loud and clear.

Mike

I have heard Fisk and Marlow critise all sides in the Middle East not just the side that you would like them to criticise. Fisk has a perspective that sees the big picture in the Middle East stretching back over the last century not the moronic good versus evil crap espoused by the Bush and co.

The_Minister

Voipjunkie wrote:

That is some stretch of your imagination your problem is that if they are not praising the PDs non stop like your used to in the Irish Times and Independent then the only possible explanation is they must be crypto socialists it can not be that they balanced or attempting to be balanced.

The Independent HATES the PDs. The Sindo is worse. The Irish Times has a mild distaste for them, with their every columnist hating them (see list above)

enda1

Avns1s wrote:

As someone with an avid interest in current affairs, I can honestly say that I haven't heard Mary Harney utter one single word on the nurses dispute, various people from the HSE yes, Bertie yes, Liam Doran et al yes, but Big Mary... not a word. So may you're right she has stood up to them, she's a big girl after all but she didn't take a prominent position by real saying anything about the nurses dispute. Brave alright!:rolleyes:

That body was put in place to deal with these situations. Do you not think she has been involved behind closed doors? It would be very unprofessional of her to undermine them in the public eye.

The whole point of a leader is to have the people under you working to their full potential, not to glorify your actions in the public eye and take all the credit. Nurses aint pulling their weight so they need to be sorted out, so the HSE are their to act on the departments behalf basically and remedy the situation. No party leader has any sympathy for the nurses so are you saying she is wrong?

AidoCQS

The_Minister wrote:

They don't. It's not the answer to everything, but does often work. State monopolies are not a good thing. Oh, and FYI, while privatisation of railways failed in England, it has been really successful on the Continent.

It is remarkable though that the PD's who expouse the competition mantra should so fiercly resist political competition. They did everything they could to not recognise Sinn Fein's mandate, it appears that they would stoop to any length to hold onto power (FF Watchdog )

Look if they believe in Competition so much, they should be happy so when they get kicked out of the Government in a few weeks.

Voipjunkie

darkman2 wrote:

You keep saying 'your'. I dont read the Irish times. I read the Irish Independent which is for us mere mortals.

Once again I dont support the PD's, im only making an observation that they always get hopped on for everything that goes wrong.

And who writes for the Irish Independent


Kevin Myers
Ian O'Doherty
Fionnan Sheehan
Senan Moloney
Brendan Keenan
Tom Brady
Shane Ross


I don't see much left wing bias there


Meanwhile the Irish Times is like a PD fanzine from the editor down.

Voipjunkie

The_Minister wrote:

The Independent HATES the PDs. The Sindo is worse. The Irish Times has a mild distaste for them, with their every columnist hating them (see list above)

I suppose just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you.

Seriously the Independent hates the PDs are you taking the piss or what :rolleyes:

The Editor of the Irish Times is a Former TD for what party Noel Whelan sings the praises of the PDs every opportunity he gets.

Avns1s

enda1 wrote:

That body was put in place to deal with these situations. Do you not think she has been involved behind closed doors? It would be very unprofessional of her to undermine them in the public eye.

The whole point of a leader is to have the people under you working to their full potential, not to glorify your actions in the public eye and take all the credit. Nurses aint pulling their weight so they need to be sorted out, so the HSE are their to act on the departments behalf basically and remedy the situation. No party leader has any sympathy for the nurses so are you saying she is wrong?

You said she "stood up" to the nurses. Now you say she didn't, but something else did. Will you make up your mind!

And how would I (or you) know what she did behind closed doors? I'm not a member of the PD's or any other party for that matter. I do know that she has precious little in the open.

The_Minister

Avns1s wrote:

You said she "stood up" to the nurses.

She didn't give them what they wanted, despite (apparent) public support for them. Ergo, she stood up to them.

AidoCQS

The Indo is pro FF, ergo its anti-PD's the PD's genisis is in leaving FF remember

The Times vis-a-via Geraldine Kennedy is their compeditor and in bed with the PD's, to the extent you can afford to be with such a small party

Avns1s

The_Minister wrote:

She didn't give them what they wanted, despite (apparent) public support for them. Ergo, she stood up to them.

There is a comittment to reduce the nurses hours to 37.5 hours a week with a commitment to looking at how the 35 hour week will be achieved.

The claims for a pay increase will be dealt with by benchmarking. IN other words there is at least an indication that all of the demands of the nurses will be met to a greater or lesser extent.

That's a fair standing up to the nurses alright. I bet Mary is proud today.

RalphCifaretto

It is remarkable though that the PD's who expouse the competition mantra should so fiercly resist political competition. They did everything they could to not recognise Sinn Fein's mandate, it appears that they would stoop to any length to hold onto power (FF Watchdog )

If anything FF acts as PD watchdog.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Voipjunkie

AidoCQS wrote:

The Indo is pro FF, ergo its anti-PD's the PD's genisis is in leaving FF remember

Nonsense there is no difference between FF and the PDs most of FF could quite comfortably sit in the PDs Brennan,D Ahern, Cullen ( was a PD) Hanafin, etc and vice versa although McDowell might be happier in FG but then again what is the difference between FG and FF.

The PDs left FF because they did not like Haughey end of story. Haughey is dead there is no reason for the PDs to exist anymore the pretence that they would be a watchdog had been shown to be a scam.

28064212

The PDs do get a fairly hard time in the media, at least compared to what FF should get. To be honest, if you had a paranoid mindset, it's their coalition partners who have set them up for this. Two of the biggest issues in this election are health and crime, both in a shocking state for a supposedly first-world country, and both Ministerial seats were handed over by Fianna Fáil to the PDs in recent years. For a party with just 8 seats compared to FF's 78, they get an awful lot of time front and centre, and they're going to suffer for it.

flurby

Joining in a little late here but the forum title caught my eye. There is one thing, as a lefty (although not affiliated), which I admire the PD's for... that's sticking to their guns.

They do that very well.

But I think the Irish people (media included) have a good sense of justice... and they see that PD guns have been well and truly aimed at the poorer end of society for ten years. The economic success they have overseen has given most of us nothing in the way of a better quality of life, least of all the poorest in our society. The Irish people can see that and, quite literally, appear to hate them for it.

Fair enough, I say.

I don't like the way people mudsling the media whenever it takes a side, for whatever reason. In order for democracy to work it's obvious there should be an equal reflection of left and right in the media. Traditionally, that has meant different newspapers/television channels/radio stations taking a position somewhere on the political spectrum.

Long may it last.

The_Minister

Voipjunkie wrote:

The PDs left FF because they did not like Haughey end of story. Haughey is dead there is no reason for the PDs to exist anymore the pretence that they would be a watchdog had been shown to be a scam.

Its far more complicated then that. There had been calls for, and talk of, a new party in Ireland for a long time.

galactus

I haven't read any of the previous posts (might later) but in an nutshell i don't trust them.

It might sound juvenile but they are fascist in outlook: everything is black & white, cut and dried. Example of his heavy-handed approach. They always have all the answers.

Life's more complicated than that. I sense they get a buzz out of having power rather than getting their sleeves rolled up.

Any government can manage the economy: its not rocket-science. What has McDowell and his cronies to offer the legacy of our country?

Voipjunkie

The_Minister wrote:

Its far more complicated then that. There had been calls for, and talk of, a new party in Ireland for a long time.

No it wasn't if Haughey had not been leader of FF then the PDs would never have existed.

Sonnenblumen

galactus wrote:

I haven't read any of the previous posts (might later) but in an nutshell i don't trust them.

It might sound juvenile but they are fascist in outlook: everything is black & white, cut and dried. Example of his heavy-handed approach. They always have all the answers.

Life's more complicated than that. I sense they get a buzz out of having power rather than getting their sleeves rolled up.

Any government can manage the economy: its not rocket-science. What has McDowell and his cronies to offer the legacy of our country?

Isn't strong management a breath of fresh air. Completely disagree with your view that any gov can manage, might be you haven't seen many govs. IMO a lot of people are probably initimidated by PD confidence and determination to get things done. I'm not a PD fan per se but I cannot fail to be impressed by their willingness to take on tough challenges and make the tough decisions. Unfortunately the same attributes are sadly lacking in broader society. Too much hand outs dependent and/or lack get up and go cultures.

galactus

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Isn't strong management a breath of fresh air. Completely disagree with your view that any gov can manage, might be you haven't seen many govs. IMO a lot of people are probably initimidated by PD confidence and determination to get things done. I'm not a PD fan per se but I cannot fail to be impressed by their willingness to take on tough challenges and make the tough decisions. Unfortunately the same attributes are sadly lacking in broader society. Too much hand outs dependent and/or lack get up and go cultures.

That's an interesting point you make about "Strong Management". I would suggest that history shows the most progressive societies are not primarily focused on ecomomic growth to the exclusion of all else. That certainly seems the case imho with PDs. They have little, if anything, to say on any other topics than those of economics and law & order.

But you are misquoting me: i posit that any half-decent government can manage the ecomomy. Social issues are this governments weak point (according to the polls).

I would like to assert my point that economics is not not rocket science, there are variables but the broad ecomomic context is not of OUR making: it is global and any goverment will be well advised by the Civil Service in these matters. Social Partnership, which PDs hammer on about a fair bit is not their strongest suit.

Asfor the work the PDs have actually done: in fact i would argue that Minster McDowall has made a COMPLETE HASH of his job by alienating Na Gardai! As for Minister Harney: promises much but fails to deliver is as kind a verdict as i can give.

Finally, let me point out here that i would be wholly in favour of aptitude test for immigrants. I think you will find that not many people are THAT liberal.

PS I bet i've seen a few more govts that you

gandalf

I would reckon the PD's are "hated" because the majority of the people in this country that vote did not vote for them yet they have had the Government by the balls for the last 10 years.

In that time their 2 Ministers have failed dismally and their prospective portfolios are definately in worse condition now than when they took them on board.

All talk and no trousers imho sums up the PD's.

cast_iron

galactus wrote:

I haven't read any of the previous posts (might later) but in an nutshell i don't trust them.

It might sound juvenile but they are fascist in outlook: everything is black & white, cut and dried. Example of his heavy-handed approach. They always have all the answers.

Life's more complicated than that. I sense they get a buzz out of having power rather than getting their sleeves rolled up.

Any government can manage the economy: its not rocket-science. What has McDowell and his cronies to offer the legacy of our country?

What most people dislike McDowell for is the fact that he calls it as it is.
Did no one hear him berate Mr. C. Bird in the press conference last week? He wasn't taking any (of the usual) sh1te from him - Charlie threatened him with a headline because his deadline was coming up pretty soon, and McDowell said "screw you" - and rightly so, and showed him for what he was. He's the party leader, not C. Bird, so what McDowell says goes, and he should not be dictated be what any journalist decides is an appropriate deadline.

cast_iron

gandalf wrote:

I would reckon the PD's are "hated" because the majority of the people in this country that vote did not vote for them yet they have had the Government by the balls for the last 10 years.

In that time their 2 Ministers have failed dismally and their prospective portfolios are definately in worse condition now than when they took them on board.

All talk and no trousers imho sums up the PD's.

What a nonsense.

You're dislike for the current administration is obvious, but if we go into the nitty gritty of who did what, the PDs will fair out better than most.

Harney worse than Martin?
McDowell worse than O' Donoghue?

Now one doesn't excuse the other, but nor does hypothesis of what clone parties (FG) would do either.

galactus

cast_iron wrote:

What most people dislike McDowell for is the fact that he calls it as it is.
Did no one hear him berate Mr. C. Bird in the press conference last week? He wasn't taking any (of the usual) sh1te from him - Charlie threatened him with a headline because his deadline was coming up pretty soon, and McDowell said "screw you" - and rightly so, and showed him for what he was. He's the party leader, not C. Bird, so what McDowell says goes, and he should not be dictated be what any journalist decides is an appropriate deadline.

I'm saying the opposite: he doesn't call it like it is. He bloody well tells us (and the Garda if you don't mind) the way he sees it. And if we don't like it..."screw you". His attitude is infantile and simplistic.