Why are the PD's singled out for criticism all the time?

MisterAnarchy

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Well said.
Its a necessity in this era.
I'm sick of the whingers going on about the health system all the bloody time.
Most of these people have no medical insurance ,pay little or no tax and clog the health system up.
1.3m people went to A+E last year,thats 1/3 of our population.
That seems ridiculously high.
Utter disgrace .

Dirk Gently

darkman2 wrote:

These people against the PD's are sheer begrudgers. Admit it FFS.


Irish people HATE people with money and even more so them showing it off and having representation.

Its interesting that none of them would comment on this point and try to disprove it. Because they know it is fact.

Maybe it's because they represent a very small minority of people who aren't affected by the realities of the cost of living in this country. That and the arrogance displayed by people like McDowell, like the comments above and a serious credibility issue with the pd's as a whole, highlighted by their "will they / wont they" walk out of government antics which fool nobody anymore and their sleazy propaganda election campaign. Mary Harneys comments that people forced to buy private health cover are "a sign of more money in people pocket" and not a result of necessity because they can't rely on public health was enough for me.

They don't represent the majority of ordinary people, so the majority of ordinary people don't vote for them. What’s your problem with that? Why don't you vote for someone who doesn't represent you? Oh wait, that would be silly wouldn't it.

misteranarchy wrote:

Well said.
Its a necessity in this era.
I'm sick of the whingers going on about the health system all the bloody time.
Most of these people have no medical insurance ,pay little or no tax and clog the health system up.
1.3m people went to A+E last year,thats 1/3 of our population.
That seems ridiculously high.
Utter disgrace .

Sarcasm? I’m sure it was but it’s hard to tell sometimes on this board.

darkman2

clown bag wrote:

Hold on for a second - I dont support the PD's and im not rich by any stretch of the imagination.

Hold on for a second - I dont support the PD's and I am far from rich let me tell you.

I am saying people dont like the PD's because of begrudgery. Admit it. Your the same. Dont worry your not different. The Irish have that mentality.

Dirk Gently

yeah well done.

make up a quote that supports your rant and then repeat your original half baked rant.

You're the man.

darkman2

clown bag wrote:

yeah well done.

make up a quote that supports your rant and then repeat your original half baked rant.

You're the man.

I know I am but please admit your a begrudger.

Dirk Gently

darkman2 wrote:

I know I am but please admit your a begrudger.

please admit you contribute nothing to this forum.

darkman2

clown bag wrote:

please admit you contribute nothing to this forum.

I contribute everything to this forum:D Now once again your a begrudger......thanks

Dirk Gently

tbh that green smiley is the best part of your posts, and I hate that hideous green smiley.

Mr.Nice Guy

darkman2 wrote:

Hi,

Just wondering (i am not a PD supporter) why Irish people seem to vent so much anger at the PD's constantly.

Minister for Health - Mary Harney (PDs)

Minister for Justice - Michael McDowell (PDs)

There's your answer. This government has failed miserably on both key areas.

Here's hoping they get a thumping at this year's election.

darkman2

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Minister for Health - Mary Harney (PDs)

Minister for Justice - Michael McDowell (PDs)

There's your answer. This government has failed miserably on both key areas.

Here's hoping they get a thumping at this year's election.

*Cough* - do you believe the halfwits of the 'Coalition' would sort it out?:rolleyes:

dRNk SAnTA

Just in case nobody remembers, the health system has been a disgrace for 15 years. The fact that the health system got into such a mess has nothing to do with the PD's. Mary Harney asked for the portfolio of health minister to try and fix it. She's been there 3 years. If you think the health problem is one that could've been fixed in the last 3 years (or within the next 3 years for that matter), then you don't know what you're talking about.

Anybody who says Harney isn't doing anything is just talking through their arse. The amount of reform that has taken place is there for everyone to see. Shes fighting the consultants and the nurses at the same time, she's got bigger balls than any other politician in Ireland.

28064212 wrote:

Risk equalisation blew up her face, and was just about the stupidest thing anybody could have done

What a load of crap! You dont have a clue!

I want to know why it is that the PD's get blamed for departments that were introuble before they ever took over, why does Michael Martin get no blame? Dick Roche isn't blamed for destroying our envirornment?

Mr.Nice Guy

darkman2 wrote:

*Cough* - do you believe the halfwits of the 'Coalition' would sort it out?:rolleyes:

I don't think they could possibly do any worse.

cast_iron

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I don't think they could possibly do any worse.

Ok, that implies you don't think they could do much better.
So, please explain what difference it makes as to who get in?

darkman2

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I don't think they could possibly do any better.

From the horses mouth........Night:D

28064212

darkman2 wrote:

Once again I say the real reason is begrudgery.

Classic Irish trait. Cant stand people that have more then them.

Thats the reality here. These people against the PD's are sheer begrudgers. Admit it FFS.

Irish people HATE people with money and even more so them showing it off and having representation.

Its interesting that none of them would comment on this point and try todisprove it. Because they know it is fact.

For f*cks sake. At least 'The Rooster' and some of the PD and FF supporters have put forward some decent arguments as to why the FF/PDs have failed in these areas. All you have said is that the reason is begrudgery, and repeated it ad infinitum. You haven't responded to any of the arguments put forward, except to say "no-one has hit the nail on the head", and, in your opinion, an FG minister wouldn't neccessarily have done a good job as health minister. You say that McDowell was accurate about SF criminality, yet for some reason he has never brought criminal charges against them. I happen to come from a family that would be considered upper-middle class, the general PD demographic would have a similar amount of disposable income to me, and yet I despise a significant percentage of their policies. Explain how that fits in with your begrudgery theorem, if you would be so kind.

billy the squid

The Rooster wrote:

What?? Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

I know exactly what I am talking about, It is obvious that you do not, and have not paid a blind bit of attention to what i have written

The Mater Private is a roaring success and the Mater Public is performing very well. The children's hospital is irrelelvant to the private hospital debate.

Of course it is relavent. the very presence of the private hospital on mater's grounds limits the ability to build a proper childrens hospital. The co-location is a short sighted, flawed plan. and don't deny it because both you know and I know that I am right.

Someone should ask Pat Rabbitte where he goes when he needs medical attention. I know, and I'll give you a clue..... its not public

I couldn't give a flying **** what pat rabbitte goes, I'm not a labour voter, and why is it relavent.

darkman2

28064212 wrote:

Explain how that fits in with your begrudgery theorem, if you would be so kind.

Well you have not so you explain to me. Thats my point. Its all begrudgery. Oh no McDowell too arrogant to be Justice minister eh? I hate to shake the earth you live on but it takes that sort of man to take on Justice and terrorists like Sinn Fein - a terrorist organisation. Disprove that.

28064212

dRNk SAnTA wrote:

Just in case nobody remembers, the health system has been a disgrace for 15 years. The fact that the health system got into such a mess has nothing to do with the PD's. Mary Harney asked for the portfolio of health minister to try and fix it. She's been there 3 years. If you think the health problem is one that could've been fixed in the last 3 years (or within the next 3 years for that matter), then you don't know what you're talking about.

Not neccessarily, although with the current level of public funding, it wouldn't be a completely unrealistic expectation. At least you're putting forward some arguments, unlike some of your compatriots.

dRNk SAnTA wrote:

Anybody who says Harney isn't doing anything is just talking through their arse. The amount of reform that has taken place is there for everyone to see. Shes fighting the consultants and the nurses at the same time, she's got bigger balls than any other politician in Ireland.

28064212 wrote:

Risk equalisation blew up her face, and was just about the stupidest thing anybody could have done

What a load of crap! You dont have a clue!

Please explain it to me then. I've already said I'm not against risk equalisation in the current situation, I've just stated that Harney made a complete balls of it. Barring she visited a psychic beforehand, and found out that Quinn were stepping in to take over from Bupa, then yes, I think she made a complete f*ck-up

dRNk SAnTA wrote:

I want to know why it is that the PD's get blamed for departments that were introuble before they ever took over, why does Michael Martin get no blame? Dick Roche isn't blamed for destroying our envirornment?

Michael Martin got a significant amount of blame when he was stepping down. But Harney has made zero positive steps in the three years she's been in charge of health. I've already explained my position on McDowell. I sure as hell won't be voting for a FF/PD government.

28064212

darkman2 wrote:

28064212 wrote:

Explain how that fits in with your begrudgery theorem, if you would be so kind.

Well you have not so you explain to me. Thats my point. Its all begrudgery

You said that Irish people were just bedgrudging the PDs and their demographic their middle-class status. I pointed out that their's no reason I would have to take that stance. Therefore, clearly it's not begrudgery. How much much more explanation do you need?

darkman2 wrote:

Oh no McDowell too arrogant to be Justice minister eh? I hate to shake the earth you live on but it takes that sort of man to take on Justice and terrorists like Sinn Fein - a terrorist organisation. Disprove that.

Nowhere have I said that McDowell is "too arrogant to be Justice minister". If he has some sort of evidence against Sinn Féin, then by all means bring on the arrests and throw 'the terrorists' in jail. But stop throwing around completely unfounded allegations, unless you and he are prepared to back them up

galactus

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Surely the point is that there is no doubt that a significant portion (20-25% i'd imagine given poverty stats etc.) of the population can't afford private health insurance.

I am lucky enough to be able to afford private health insurance: I'd prefer to pay extra taxes though.

Agreed.
I have plan E VHI which is the highest one you can get with them and it's roughly €1200 for the year thats €100 a month.
If I was a smoker doing 20 a day I'd spend more than that.

The Rooster

billy the squid wrote:

Of course it is relavent. the very presence of the private hospital on mater's grounds limits the ability to build a proper childrens hospital. The co-location is a short sighted, flawed plan. and don't deny it because both you know and I know that I am right.

Lets get this straight. You've stated that colocation won't work because the new building will be too close to an existing building and therefore there'll be awful problems building it. What an excellent point

This despite the fact that between 2 and 5 design teams have examined each site to confirm its perfectly able to cope with a private hospital.

You have no clue what you're talking about and "both you know and I know that I am right".

The Rooster

28064212 wrote:

Barring she visited a psychic beforehand, and found out that Quinn were stepping in to take over from Bupa, then yes, I think she made a complete f*ck-up

If you think BUPA were really going to pull out and shut up shop, then you're one of the very few. Granted they had most people worried (and fooled) at the very beginning, but not Harney who never waivered and always stood up to their posturing. By the end most realised that BUPA were bluffing. They still had a valuable business, they were never going to just shut up shop. To suggest they would have walked away and made everyone redundant had Quinn not stepped in, is just nonsense.

The_Minister

28064212 wrote:

But Harney has made zero positive steps in the three years she's been in charge of health.

I have an exam in less than three hours, but I'm going to take you on this.
Lots of reforms have happened, and they've been good ones too. linky
1). NTPF has brought waiting lists down from 2.5 years to 2.5 months
2). She brought in the first ever hygiene checks/audits into hospitals.
3). INO have acknowledged that there is 40%-50% fewer patients waiting on trolleys.
4). Abolition of healthboards, and creation of HSE
5). Pharmacy legislation overhauled for the first time in 130 years.
6). With the Dept. of education, doubling the number of medical school places.
7). New GP services as an alternative to A&E.
8). Nurses prescribing
9). Nurses trained to provide forensic tests. (rape victims etc.)
10). 2 new sexual assault treatment units.

Thats not even nearly all of them. She's done them all, and they've worked well. You can't say that she has done nothing positive, if this was all she had done (and it isn't by a long-shot) then she would be a great Minister for Health.

MisterAnarchy

dRNk SAnTA wrote:

Just in case nobody remembers, the health system has been a disgrace for 15 years. The fact that the health system got into such a mess has nothing to do with the PD's. Mary Harney asked for the portfolio of health minister to try and fix it. She's been there 3 years. If you think the health problem is one that could've been fixed in the last 3 years (or within the next 3 years for that matter), then you don't know what you're talking about.

Anybody who says Harney isn't doing anything is just talking through their arse. The amount of reform that has taken place is there for everyone to see. Shes fighting the consultants and the nurses at the same time, she's got bigger balls than any other politician in Ireland.

The Pd's seem to be the only party that actually want to modernise this country.
The health system here third world and the rot set in decades ago.
It is extremely hard to change a system that has been rotting for years when it has so many vested interests .
Mc Dowell and Harney seem to be getting 80% of the flak the govt receives.
The govt make the decisions not just these 2 so its about time the blame was shared out.

paulboards

The PDs are rightly criticised. They have a disproportionate amount of power compard with their number of votes/seats. They are anti-union. My father worked for a company with a union and had a 15 minute drive to work. Mary Harney closed it down leaving him with a 1:30 drive to Dublin. All this talk of healthy private competition is crap. In any competition there are more loosers than winners. When the company you work for looses you become unemployed. When the company you work for imports cheap foreign labour the rents in your area go up and the salaries go down. Private business works great for stuff people dont really need like Pepsi or Coke, but for important things like waste disposal and electricity we need to have the state running it.

Executive Steve

darkman2 wrote:

I dont read the Irish times. I read the Irish Independent which is for us mere mortals.

there's your problem. should really have been the end of the thread.

The Rooster

paulboards wrote:

Mary Harney closed it down leaving him with a 1:30 drive to Dublin.

What company did bould Mary close down? And how did she do it?

guinnessdrinker

What I think is crazy it that they are getting around 3% in opinion polls which means for every 1000 people only around 30 are voting for the PD's!!!

Stargal

guinnessdrinker wrote:

What I think is crazy it that they are getting around 3% in opinion polls which means for every 1000 people only around 30 are voting for the PD's!!!

Sounds about right