RTE debate between leaders of the smaller parties

dodgyme

Voipjunkie wrote:

IF employers are allowed to replace workers with foreign Nationals that they c an pay less that will breed resentment and play into the hands of racists

Very good point you and glad that Rabbitte brought up the initial point during the debate.

kevmy

AidoCQS wrote:

I think its disgusting how people are able to pretend that Ulster is somehow a faraway country, and there were lots of hints at it last night. When I lived abroad - I knew lots of Nordies, did not like very many of em , but they were Irish in my eyes, whichever religion.

NB. Not a shinner, but I advocate political competition, similar to how the PD's advocate free markets for everything else.

I never said anything about Adams not being Irish or Ulster being a faraway country with no impact on us. I was just making the point that as someone who isn't running in this election he shouldn't have been in a Leaders debate for this election. Nobody in this country has or can elect Gerry Adams to political power in the Republic (for the forseeable future anyway).
It would be like Mark Durkan coming down to represent Labour in a leaders debate. IMO Caoimhighin O Caomhlain or Ferris or even Mary Lou should have been representing SF as the leader (or possible leader of the Sinn Fein party in the Dail)

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Voipjunkie

kevmy wrote:

I never said anything about Adams not being Irish or Ulster being a faraway country with no impact on us. I was just making the point that as someone who isn't running in this election he shouldn't have been in a Leaders debate for this election. Nobody in this country has or can elect Gerry Adams to political power in the Republic (for the forseeable future anyway).
It would be like Mark Durkan coming down to represent Labour in a leaders debate. IMO Caoimhighin O Caomhlain or Ferris or even Mary Lou should have been representing SF as the leader (or possible leader of the Sinn Fein party in the Dail)

The SDLP and the Irish Labour party are two completely separate organisations SF is the one party organised in the 32 counties the Leader of the party happens to be based outside of the 26 counties.
It was a debate for the 4 party leaders he is the SF party leader.

Chakar

The winner of the debate last night was ultimately Michael McDowell. Mr. McDowell's training as a barrister and his intelligience stood well for him. However I would have liked more statements on policy but that wasn't going to happen with four leaders of political parties around the table.

Though I was disgusted by Pat Rabbitte's comment comparing Mr. McDowell to a menopausal Paris Hilton. That was so low. At least Mr. McDowell didn't descend to name calling.

brianthebard

Chakar wrote:

The winner of the debate last night was ultimately Michael McDowell. Mr. McDowell's training as a barrister and his intelligience stood well for him. However I would have liked more statements on policy but that wasn't going to happen with four leaders of political parties around the table.

Though I was disgusted by Pat Rabbitte's comment comparing Mr. McDowell to a menopausal Paris Hilton. That was so low. At least Mr. McDowell didn't descend to name calling.

Post of the thread! How anyone could have such an opinion after seeing that debate is beyond me.

Voipjunkie

Chakar wrote:

Though I was disgusted by Pat Rabbitte's comment comparing Mr. McDowell to a menopausal Paris Hilton. That was so low. At least Mr. McDowell didn't descend to name calling.

No I'm sure calling Trevor Sargent leftovers was meant as a compliment.

28064212

Chakar wrote:

Though I was disgusted by Pat Rabbitte's comment comparing Mr. McDowell to a menopausal Paris Hilton. That was so low. At least Mr. McDowell didn't descend to name calling.

First of all, it's not name-calling, it's comparison. Second of all, you're disgusted by that comment, but think it's ok for the Minister of Justice to throw unfounded allegations at the leader of a political party? If McDowell has any evidence that Adams has any connection to Colombian drug money, I want to see an arrest made this evening. Otherwise he should shut the hell up

Voipjunkie

brianthebard wrote:

Post of the thread! How anyone could have such an opinion after seeing that debate is beyond me.

Because if you are committed to one party you see and hear what you want to see and hear it does not have to bear any resemblance to reality

Chakar

28064212 wrote:

First of all, it's not name-calling, it's comparison.

I didn't know Paris Hilton was menopausal.

nesf

Voipjunkie wrote:

Because if you are committed to one party you see and hear what you want to see and hear it does not have to bear any resemblance to reality

Yeah, it's amusing to watch at times isn't it?


Though after considering it I think McDowell and Rabbitte did excellent jobs of appealing to their own voter bases. So depending on where you stand in politics I can see why you could pick one over the other.

dodgyme

Jon wrote:

Sure, but what about the rights of the parents of non-nationals born here?

Thats what we had the referendum for. Perhaps you might think about the rights of taxpayers paying through the nose for chancers looking for a free ride. At any rate that is a whole different debate. We are supposed to be discussing the winners and losers from last night.:D

28064212

Chakar wrote:

I didn't know Paris Hilton was menopausal.

I don't quite see what you're getting at there. Are you suggesting that McDowell is? Or are you saying that Pat Rabbitte was calling McDowell menopausal? Either case is wrong (at least I assume the former is). The English language does allow you to make comparisons to hypotheticals

galactus

Chakar wrote:

The winner of the debate last night was ultimately Michael McDowell. Mr. McDowell's training as a barrister and his intelligience stood well for him. However I would have liked more statements on policy but that wasn't going to happen with four leaders of political parties around the table.

Though I was disgusted by Pat Rabbitte's comment comparing Mr. McDowell to a menopausal Paris Hilton. That was so low. At least Mr. McDowell didn't descend to name calling.

A cheap shot by Rabbitte but maybe McDowell has learned his lesson.
McDowell brands FG's Bruton the 'Dr Goebbels of propaganda'

Chakar

28064212 wrote:

I don't quite see what you're getting at there. Are you suggesting that McDowell is? Or are you saying that Pat Rabbitte was calling McDowell menopausal? Either case is wrong (at least I assume the former is). The English language does allow you to make comparisons to hypotheticals

Neither.

dodgyme

Chakar wrote:

I didn't know Paris Hilton was menopausal.

Which ever advisor came up with that pre-rehearsed line should be sacked. Also you are right, is paris hilton menopausal. Who would Paris hilton endorse? Would paris hilton like to rub the rabbitte or drool over McDowell? yuke!!!!!!:p

GreeBo

For me anyway (a highly a-political Joe) the interesting question was posed by McDowell to the other three, namely "How are you are going to pay for all of these promises?"

Im not sure if "equality" and "peace process" gets you many hospital beds nowadays.

ateam

The radio today was filled with angry women complaining about the menopausal comment. Rabitte may have shot himself in the foot with that remark.

simu

ateam wrote:

The radio today was filled with angry women complaining about the menopausal comment. Rabitte may have shot himself in the foot with that remark.

Radio shows attract freaks. Most would not be offended.

ateam

Any ideas on the amount of viewers the show got last night?

LuckyLloyd

ateam wrote:

Any ideas on the amount of viewers the show got last night?

800K

Hugh_C

Chakar wrote:

The winner of the debate last night was ultimately Michael McDowell. Mr. McDowell's training as a barrister and his intelligience stood well for him.

snip

At least Mr. McDowell didn't descend to name calling.

You're on acid and I claim my €5

kevmy

Voipjunkie wrote:

The SDLP and the Irish Labour party are two completely separate organisations SF is the one party organised in the 32 counties the Leader of the party happens to be based outside of the 26 counties.
It was a debate for the 4 party leaders he is the SF party leader.

I understand that but Gerry Adams is an MP and an MLA, as is Mark Durkan. Now I know that SF are in an unique position and their Party President (Adams) is from outside the 26 counties. But Gerry Adams has a strange figurehead position in SF I mean Martin McGuinness is the SF leader in the Northern Assembly and I would regard Caoimhighin O Caoilain as the leader in the Dail.
I personally don't think it's good for SF in the South or for the debate as I feel that one of their TD's would have done a better job.

Milktrolley

"Menopausal Paris Hilton" wins quote of the night hands down I reckon. Followed by the Adams-McDowell dialogue (presented in a nutshell):

Adams: All our Parliamentary are on an average industrial wage
McDowell: What about your holiday home in Co. Donegal?
Adams: The bank owns that.
McDowell: Which one? The Northern Ireland Bank?

Would have been better if he correctly called it the 'Northern Bank' but even so twas funny.

Watch it here: [URL="rtsp://streaming2.rte.ie/2007/0516/primetime-146641-230.rm"]Scroll to 2:51[/URL]

Live backstage coverage ahead of Ahern v Kenny on the RTÉ website from 8:30 - 9:40pm

The Rooster

My verdict:

1. Sargeant
2. McDowell
3. Rabbitte
4. Adams

Very tight call between the top three, who all performed well in my opinion, but I thought Trevor was best (and I'm nowhere near voting Green!!). Adams was dire. Very surprised as I would have predicted Adams at 1 and Sargeant at 4. I was delighted to see McDowell jump on Adams whenever Adams opened himself up. Adams has done great work in recent years up north, but gets far too easy a time of it down here on southern issues. He was badly shown up.

AlanOB

He was badly shown up again today by Bryan Dobson on his parties absurd intentions to renationalise Eircom and other state companies. He pointed out that currently any plan to repurchase Eircom by the state would cost around €5 billion and asked Adams where he would get the money. Adams was completely dumbfounded.

It was great.

Boggle

1. Rabitte
2. Sargeant
3. Adams (I feel dirty!)
4. McDowell

Couldn't believe McDowell was let away with the amount of insults and while I see how some would admire how he never let up in the face of hostility - his waffling consisted mainly of insults, misinformation, scare-tactics and slander (like it or not Adams could own him if he took it to court...unless he's afraid of what may come out!!)
His comments re inequality being necessary may be alright in general terms but I cannot understand how anyone (let alone all of them) let him away with it in the context of the health system!!
My only guess is that he spent so much time talking over(bullying) people so they could not construct their arguments. Pretty much how a good barrister would behave but way out of line in a debate and very offputting for ordinary people.

Adams talked alot of rubbish at times but I feel that he was targeting a specific audience: the underprivileged(spelling?!). And I feel that these people may have heard every word he said.
You cannot deny that someone on an average industrial wage faces woeful hardship in this day and age and gaps between the have's and have nots are growing steadily. These are the people Adams are looking for and, believe me, if they think his party will make their life easier they will vote for him no matter what he may have been involved years ago.

Sargeant had good points but at times struggles to be heard over the wailing of the guy beside him.

Rabitte appeared more professional than any of the others and seemed to be (pretending at leastto be ) enjoying the bickering.


And someone posted earlier that McDowell was not responsible for the courts freeing guilty people but he is responsible for writing robust and fair laws. In this he has failed and has shown a willingness to rush laws through without due consideration, just to appease public sentiment. Its much like his hospital plan which I feel is a quick fix which will hurt in the long run....

AidoCQS

Boggle wrote:

Couldn't believe McDowell was let away ............. misinformation, scare-tactics and slander (like it or not Adams could own him if he took it to court...unless he's afraid of what may come out!!)....

please please please dont even mention it...

Politicians dont do courts - they do Tribunals

What the hell would that cost ? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Remember McMahon started out looking for 35k, and has cost us 40 million..

What would happen if they looking for Adams millions? and thats not even counting translators and Government officials from Columbia (yes they are worse)?

iamhunted

AlanOB wrote:

He was badly shown up again today by Bryan Dobson on his parties absurd intentions to renationalise Eircom and other state companies. He pointed out that currently any plan to repurchase Eircom by the state would cost around €5 billion and asked Adams where he would get the money. Adams was completely dumbfounded.

It was great.

I saw that clip and it wasnt quite like that. I got the distinct impressions yer man was more interested in asking questions without being interested in what Adams tried to answer. he made the point of it costing around 5 billion to which admans answered he was aware of that then dobson ended the interview. Admas didnt seem too 'completely dumbfounded' to me. More that he didnt get the chance to properly answer.

Wino82

Yep despite what is being said here about Adams's performance last night I don't think he or SF should be too concerned. He appealed to large numbers of people I'm sure, and jibes about the past and certain nudges he is not from this country only work in his favour imo. SF will get a big vote and it will be Labour who will suffer.

Was slightly disapointed by Seargent, less biting of ankles and more on the policies would have served better. Still voting for Greens though