Soccer Forum

WhiteWashMan

Hobart wrote:

TBH the most relevant and accurate thing you have ever used your keyboard for on this site was done the day you decided upon your nic.

you got to admit. that was a great burn

Kingp35

copacetic wrote:

scojones seemed to be implying that no-one had any problem with the thread which wasn't true, plenty of people complained about it.

I don't get some of the people that post in Soccer on Boards. There are so many cry babies where if anything bad is said about their team they instantly scream trolling and rush off to cry to a mod to get a user banned. How about you try prove the poster wrong or better still, admit if what he is saying is right instead of going off to the corner for a little cry and a whinge. There is very little proper debate because you can't slag off a set of fans for fear someone will get offended. Its a joke at this stage. Stand up for your team by getting involved in the discussion.

I'm not just picking on you copacetic, I'm just using the above as an example.

Villain

Just for the record I had no problem with the thread being created, I just thought it had run its course after a few days and leaving it open was asking for trouble thats why I said it should have been closed.

copacetic

Kingp35 wrote:

I don't get some of the people that post in Soccer on Boards. There are so many cry babies where if anything bad is said about their team they instantly scream trolling and rush off to cry to a mod to get a user banned. How about you try prove the poster wrong or better still, admit if what he is saying is right instead of going off to the corner for a little cry and a whinge. There is very little proper debate because you can't slag off a set of fans for fear someone will get offended. Its a joke at this stage. Stand up for your team by getting involved in the discussion.

I'm not just picking on you copacetic, I'm just using the above as an example.

I did post on the thread and pointed out that the OP was making up facts that weren't true, of course he was busy trolling and ignored mine and plenty of other posters who pointed out he was talking rubbish.

There is a difference between having a debate with normal posters and trying to prove a troll with an agenda wrong, which is impossible as you well know.

SpAcEd OuT

Here all the posts I posted in that thread, Please point out where I was trolling

[1]
Firstly i'm not a man utd fan and have no intrest in english football. I made this thread in response to Liverpool fans who had decided to blame everything on the authorities, at some point Liverpool fans have to take the blame for not as a collective group stopping these troublemakers. I have personally witnessed celtic fans stopping thugs wearing their jersey from causing trouble and I have seen the same when Ireland went to korea, genuine irish fans stopping the troublemakers who tagged along. After Hillsborough and Heysel you would think this would be on the back of every Liverpool supporters mind whenever that element of their fans begins to take over.

[2]
Few intresting statistics,
25,000 Liverpool fans travelled over
of 25,000 fans 220 were arrested
2,000 liverpool fans stormed the stadium with false/no ticket, thats over 12per cent of their travelling fans [hardly a small minority]

18,000 milan fans travelled over
of 18,000 fans 7 were arrested
No Milan fans stormed the stadium and as such no milan fans were refused entry


I didn't ignore your accusation coepetic I apologised for making the mistake and cleared it up
[3]sorry qouted the figures expected
50,000 liverpool fans
220 arrests
2,000 stormed building [6per cent, still not a small minority]

25000 milan fans
7 arrests
None of them stormed building

figures still dont lie

[4]
Read it online, just did a google cant find the exact article but heres a link http://football.guardian.co.uk/champ...087123,00.html to a similiar one. figures are slightly diffrent, says 216 instead of 220 but you get the gist

[5]
Thats not the actual link as stated in my previous post, and being detained is being arrested, they don't just go around detaining innocent folk for fun. oh and if 2000 genuine ticket holding fans didn't get in because their seats were taken that would imply that 2000 people had stormed the building. News channels reported that when the main gate in the stadium was finally opened well over 1000 people stormed in

super_furry

Like I said before the main problem in that forum is the quality and consistancy, or lack thereof, of the moderators. Can anyone honestly say that Spaced Out's posts and thread is more offensive and inflamitory than soccer moderator KdjaCL's in this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055091471&page=3 ?

He's clearly trolling, clearly offending many forum users and despite the thread and his comments being reported nothing happens other than the thread being closed. There's no warning, no ban, no punishment and it's little wonder that people are irked when they see such a difference in reaction to a 'normal' forum user (Spaced Out) in a much less inflamitory and volitile thread.

copacetic

super_furry wrote:

Like I said before the main problem in that forum is the quality and consistancy, or lack thereof, of the moderators. Can anyone honestly say that Spaced Out's posts and thread is more offensive and inflamitory than soccer moderator KdjaCL's in this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055091471&page=3 ?

He's clearly trolling, clearly offending many forum users and despite the thread and his comments being reported nothing happens other than the thread being closed. There's no warning, no ban, no punishment and it's little wonder that people are irked when they see such a difference in reaction to a 'normal' forum user (Spaced Out) in a much less inflamitory and volitile thread.

well I check and I didn't actually report any of spaced posts although he is just a troll imo as evidenced by the posts he has helpfully pasted above. However I'd agree that Kdjacl behaviour was way way worse and I did report his posts and post on a feedback thread about it. Their bebaviour is very similar, talking about 'facts' etc with nothing to back it. Like you say spaced ban is very unfair compared to nothing happening to Kdjacl. Personally I believe that they both deserved a ban.

KdjaCL

super_furry wrote:

He's clearly trolling, clearly offending many forum users and despite the thread and his comments being reported nothing happens other than the thread being closed. There's no warning, no ban, no punishment and it's little wonder that people are irked when they see such a difference in reaction to a 'normal' forum user (Spaced Out) in a much less inflamitory and volitile thread.

Offending liverpool fans and its seems that happens a lot and when it does ...oh look another feedback thread.....



kdjac

copacetic

scojones wrote:

Where did they complain? I didn't see one reported post for that thread, but I might have missed it.

Regardless, I'm done here.

there were a lot of reports from the thread, imo it was designed to attract a certain type of poster and they were quick to get on board with it. there were also plenty of complaints on the thread itself.

super_furry

Nice sidestep there but the issue remains that if a normal poster - like Space Out - made those posts, he'd be banned.

Dub13

scojones wrote:

Does the words Liverpool fans annoy you? Strange, you have it in your signature. Why did it annoy you?

I made my point clearly on the thread but if I have to do it again I will...

The thread title was Liverpool Fans I can assure you this kind of behavior is from a small group of fans who were in Athens it is by no means the norm.

We could have a thread like this for loads of clubs as most if not all clubs have scum who support them,but why should we as I said there would be no point.

GuanYin

Dub13 wrote:

We could have a thread like this for loads of clubs as most if not all clubs have scum who support them,but why should we as I said there would be no point.

Not even clubs, my friend pointed out to me that we've observed very similar things at music festivals. Anywhere with a certain type of group and alot of alcohol you get that kinda crap.

I saw people at a festival trying to do a human pyramid and being pelted with bottles and pints and cans. I've seen pints, plastic cups of water and even piss being hurled into crowds.

I've seen this in Ireland and England (but oddly not in Germany) and I have yet to see anyone claiming that Irish people, Irish music lovers or anybody but a very small and specific minority of Irish people are scumbags or others such tags.

It's exactly the same thing. In fact, this very issue in another light is why there are currently issues with boards.ie - and the consensus blame wasn't levelled at the people in that instance. Yet in soccer, where do all the fans try to lay blame? always at the others fans door.

Cop on people.


Admins, if I have said anything out of place, please edit as approriate. Apologies, I tried to word carefully.

SpAcEd OuT

I still dont see what I said wrong.

To be honest I feel i've been made a scapegoat and undeservedly so, coapetic seems to think I am a troll because I mixed up two figures even though I apologised for it and corrected it with my next post. He then goes on here claiming I completely dodged his post yet as you can see from my pasted posts I did indeed reply he just choose to ignore it. Now he is saying that I was making up facts without having any back up purely to aggravate fans yet as you can see from my pasted posts I did post a source in which my figures are pretty much spot on [4 people off the number I claimed was arrested] so there goes that theory.

I posted the thread for a balanced debate something which I now realise is impossible to have in the soccer forum without someone being accused of 'trolling' To be honest if this is the direction that the soccer forum is taking then there is no point in continuing to post. A forum where everyone agrees with one another and are too afraid to make an opposing statement for fear of a banning seems to me to be a very boring forum. I've decided to stop posting in the soccer forum for now hopefully one day we'll see a change in policy.

Kingp35

Dub13 wrote:

The thread title was Liverpool Fans I can assure you this kind of behavior is from a small group of fans who were in Athens it is by no means the norm.

And I am sure you are right yet I still fail to see your problem. The thread title was Liverpool fans, it was Liverpool fans who were in the video causing trouble. What is your problem?

I'm sorry lads but the impression I'm getting is that you lot have a problem with someone posting something bad about Liverpool fans. Fact is they were causing trouble and the thread highlighted that. Nothing wrong with the thread title because it was 100% true.

copacetic

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

I still dont see what I said wrong.

To be honest I feel i've been made a scapegoat and undeservedly so, coapetic seems to think I am a troll because I mixed up two figures even though I apologised for it and corrected it with my next post. He then goes on here claiming I completely dodged his post yet as you can see from my pasted posts I did indeed reply he just choose to ignore it. Now he is saying that I was making up facts without having any back up purely to aggravate fans yet as you can see from my pasted posts I did post a source in which my figures are pretty much spot on [4 people off the number I claimed was arrested] so there goes that theory.

I posted the thread for a balanced debate something which I now realise is impossible to have in the soccer forum without someone being accused of 'trolling' To be honest if this is the direction that the soccer forum is taking then there is no point in continuing to post. A forum where everyone agrees with one another and are too afraid to make an opposing statement for fear of a banning seems to me to be a very boring forum. I've decided to stop posting in the soccer forum for now hopefully one day we'll see a change in policy.

heres is where I see you as a troll..

first post (note that you left it out above when you lied and said you wer quoting all your posts)

theres also videos on sky news of Liverpool fans attacking people, mugging one another, clashing with police and destroying local property

Should Liverpool pay a fine for their fans disgraceful behaviour, this kind of ticket problem happened in 2003 when celtic played seville in the uefa cup final yet the 40,000 celtic fans who werent able to get in didnt cause an ounce of trouble, A lot of the Liverpool fans should be ashamed

hardly looking for a 'balanced discussion', clearly just wanting to abuse liverpool fans imo
then:

I made this thread in response to Liverpool fans who had decided to blame everything on the authorities

admitting you just started it to have a go at all liverpool fans.

next you started making things up imo

220 arrests

which you then changed to 216, when no fans were actually 'arrested'. the police detained people with tickets they believed to be fake. you appeared to be making out that they were arrested for violent offences.

The one you definitely made up, apparently so you could say that it isn't a minority of troublemakers but first 12% and then 6% of liverpool fans who are scum is

2,000 stormed building [6per cent, still not a small minority]

you even admit yourself you made it up:

that would imply that 2000 people had stormed the building

i.e you have absolutely no reason to say it except to troll and have no evidence of it at all. No-one 'stormed' anywhere.

WhiteWashMan

as much as it delights me to see old flame wars carried on, one thing has struck me amongst all this hostility.

there are obviously a significant contributors who are not happy with the way the forum is running.

one of the mods has come on here and specifically tried to answer each query to varying degrees of success. and thats fine. im disappointed that the other mods havent soken up much, except to add to the flames...

however, it seems that when you have a number of people that are unhappy, its not just a case of justifiying decisions that have been made. i think you need to look at how things are running.

it seems to me that the situation has become one of moderators not being able to see the wood from the trees. i would prefer the mods to sit back and take a look. you dont know everything, and a lot of people have a different view to you. you may not agree with it, but youare suppose to run the forum for the community, not to your own agenda.

i know this, becuase i did the same with AH last year. i tried to put controls over. ban people for off topicness, meaqndering threads, inappropriate threads etc etc etc.
but when you get some many complaints, you have to look at what is happening, look at what you are doing, and see where its gone wrong.
Vexorg and I tried a little social experimentation, and got the users to decide what they wanted. there have been very very few complaints about AH as a whole in the last 6 months.
there was a complaint about 2 of the mods at one point, and i agreed. both mods (who i appointed by the way, so it was my responsibility) were banned from the forum they moderate for 2 weeks. now, you may call me a troller, and a flamer and an arse, but i am unbiased and very even handed when it comes to being a moderator. perhaps i expect teh same in others that i would expect from myself, which is why i seem to feel constantly disappointed with mod decisions at the moment.

#anyhow, the upshot is, there are complaints. there are more than 'the few' who are unhappy. i would urge the soccer mods, regardless of your personal opinions of me, to take on board what people are saying. instead of trying to defend every decision, i ask that you look at it from someone elses point of view. instread of locking threads, let them take their course. instead of banning people for stupidity, tell them they are stupid. and allow people to have their own opinions. youre not the opinions police.
if some says that man utd are all a bunch of cnuts, you know someone like me will challenge a stupid opinion (extreme, but it gets the idea across).

moderate in moderation.

RE*AC*TOR

hear hear

The Muppet

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

A forum where everyone agrees with one another and are too afraid to make an opposing statement for fear of a banning seems to me to be a very boring forum. I've decided to stop posting in the soccer forum for now hopefully one day we'll see a change in policy.

I agree 100 %. It appears to me that any post that is contentious in any way is seen as trolling. That appears to apply only to the soccer forum I have been on politics lately and there is plenty of lively discussion there . Why is soccer treated differently?

Thanx 4 The Fish

Short note WWM.

Why do you feel that people have to post on a thread to take on board what is being said on it ?

I think that you may completely miss some of the problem here WWM, you say that you will challenge stupid opinions but if somebody said on the forum that all Man U fans are cnuts and we let anybody pop on and debate that point then I can guarantee all of the Man U fans would be on a thread in feedback in seconds complaining that this was allowed to go on and that they were being victimised. And once they saw that it was ok to do it you can guarantee that some other fan would post an all liverpool fans are thieving scally cnuts and then all the liverpool fans who said that the man u fans are glory seeking arses would be complaining because somebody was saying that they are scum.

Believe it or not, most of the rules of the soccer forum have been put in place as a result of complaints and suggestions from the soccer users. Civility was the basic tenet back in the day but that was not enough as fans were still fncking around calling each other twats and whatnot and then complaining when they were banned as there was no rule against it. So we put in the no abusing each other rule as part of the civilty thing and then people would just come on and say That David Beckham is a wamker and there would be complaints about that and when somebody was banned they would complain because there is no rule against it so the rule was updated to stop the arguments. And then we had Man U fans not happy that Man U were called "the scum" and they complained about that and to ensure that there was even handedness the word scum was stuck into the rules to let people know that it was an abusive term.

No scores in thread titles because people were complaining that they had not seen a game, came onto a soccer board to look at soemthing else and then found out a result they did not want to see.

No commercial posts as it is a boards rule.

The perm ban bit because you could get a bit of a muppet who comes on and spams and calls every bugger a name and then deserves to be fncked out of the forum.

The moderators decision is final bit well I am not sure about that one but it is a handy one to have anyway in case something unforeseen occurs that a moderator will have to deal with or they just want a quiet life..

There has been explanations of the reason soccer is access only but people continue to whinge about that maintaing that soccer should be no harder to mod than any other forum despite not having had the experience of modding it (believe that you were offered the chance to mod soccer not too long ago and turned it down BTW ) and often not having been involved in any of the more heated debates that go on in there.

Now as far as I can see nobody has made any realistic and informed suggestions to changes to the rules here apart from the matchday thread which just seems like somebody who has far too much time on their hands, there has been alot of moaning by a few people, some of whom don't even use soccer, many of whom have been banned (quite reasonably in my opinion and some who were the main contributors to the forum being access only) in the past and feel hard done by, but nothing constructive, no positive ways to go forward just a general "I hate the mods cos they banned my mate/me" kind of feeling to it, just seems to be a typical feedback thread to me.

This was supposed to be shorter but once it got started it just snowballed.

SpAcEd OuT

copacetic wrote:

heres is where I see you as a troll..

first post (note that you left it out above when you lied and said you wer quoting all your posts)

because Psi said I was banned for my last few posts not the opening, and besides my opening post is perfectly legit anyways I wasn't trying to hide anything

copacetic wrote:

hardly looking for a 'balanced discussion', clearly just wanting to abuse liverpool fans imo

The question I put forward was should Liverpool shoulder some of the responsibility for some of their fans and pay a fine I don't see how you came to the conclusion that I was trying to abuse Liverpool fans it was a valid question

copacetic wrote:

then:

admitting you just started it to have a go at all liverpool fans.

No copacetic, I said I had made this thread in response to Liverpool fans that were blaming everything on UEFA. Up until that point everything was being blamed on uefa I decided to alert people to the fact that it was not only UEFA's fault but a combination of UEFA and a minority of Liverpool fans
ITS CALLED A BALANCED DISCUSSION I.E TWO OPPOSING VIEWS

copacetic wrote:

next you started making things up imo



which you then changed to 216, when no fans were actually 'arrested'. the police detained people with tickets they believed to be fake. you appeared to be making out that they were arrested for violent offences.

I'm sorry if my miscaculation of 4 PEOPLE gives the impression that I am pulling figures out of my arse. Your really clutching at straws if your arguing that being arrested and being detained arent basically the same the only diffrence is the length of time you are in police custody and it's not like they were going to keep over 200 foreign citizens from missing their flights.

Oh and could you please point out where I was making out they were arrested for violent offences if you look at my post it is clearly all about the fake ticket problem so don't know how you got that impression

copacetic wrote:

The one you definitely made up, apparently so you could say that it isn't a minority of troublemakers but first 12% and then 6% of liverpool fans who are scum is

Copacetic have you just compeletely ignored my previous post in this thread where I cleared that up, I accidently posted the figures expected in the article than the number that actually came which gave the increased per centage in the actual thread I apologised for this mistake, explained it and cleared it up and no one had a problem

copacetic wrote:

you even admit yourself you made it up:

No I apologised for making a mistake and explained why it had happened

copacetic wrote:

i.e you have absolutely no reason to say it except to troll and have no evidence of it at all. No-one 'stormed' anywhere.

So tell me why were over 2000 genuine ticket holders not allowed entry

Maybe because over 2000 people had indeed taken their seats

Oh and my proof was on sky news which i'm sure many people saw, the footage showed a massive surge of fans surging forward with the reporter claiming that well over thousand fans forced their way in. It also had footage of liverpool fans mugging each other and damaging property. Im sure a lot of posters saw this footage on sky news hence why no one claimed I was making up the sky news source, except of course you

GuanYin

Spaced Out, I said last few posts, the initial post of that thread was included.

Thanx 4 the Fish wrote:

So we put in the no abusing each other rule as part of the civilty thing and then people would just come on and say That David Beckham is a wamker and there would be complaints about that and when somebody was banned they would complain because there is no rule against it so the rule was updated to stop the arguments.

You know WWM is actually indirectly responsible for most of the so called harshness of the forum rules. The rules about abuse are in place because of a mammoth campaign by him and long drawn out and protracted discussion between himself, talla and gandalf.

It was WWM who complained that you could call an ex-player a name and not get banned but couldn't abuse a user, thus the abuse rule was extended.

Oddly enough, the last time he was whinging about soccer to me was because someone got banned for abusing a player.

copacetic

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

because Psi said I was banned for my last few posts not the opening, and besides my opening post is perfectly legit anyways I wasn't trying to hide anytthing....

you asked why I thought you were a troll and I told you, of course you don't like it. However it's my opinion and your attitude and farcical continuation of the argument is hardly going to change my opinion of you...

WhiteWashMan

i was never offered the chance to mod the soccer forum.

GuanYin

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i was never offered the chance to mod the soccer forum.

Actually yes you were, in a thread in the mod forum.

You turned it down and said you wouldn't want to mod the forum.

ecksor

Went looking for something a while ago and found this thread from 2004 which might be informative for some or may help to see a few peoples' points of view regarding the Soccer forum.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=152971

SpAcEd OuT

copacetic wrote:

you asked why I thought you were a troll and I told you, of course you don't like it. However it's my opinion and your attitude and farcical continuation of the argument is hardly going to change my opinion of you...

And I told you why you were wrong, personally I do not like to be wrongly labelled a troll based entirely on assumption.

Its your opnion and your entitled to it no matter how wrong you may be. I was merely trying to show you the error of your judgement but of course for the most part you completely ignored my posts and decided your mind was made up. if your happy in ignorance then who am I to challenge that I suppose.

SpAcEd OuT

psi wrote:

Spaced Out, I said last few posts, the initial post of that thread was included.

and would you mind pointing out what if anything was wrong with my opening

copacetic

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

And I told you why you were wrong, personally I do not like to be wrongly labelled a troll based entirely on assumption.

Its your opnion and your entitled to it no matter how wrong you may be. I was merely trying to show you the error of your judgement but of course for the most part you completely ignored my posts and decided your mind was made up. if your happy in ignorance then who am I to challenge that I suppose.

well it isn't like it is just me who thinks you are trolltastic is it? I didn't report any of your posts or ask for your ban, but you are banned. Nothing to do with me, although I totally agree with it. but thanks anyway I am very happy in my ignorance..

RuggieBear

ecksor wrote:

Went looking for something a while ago and found this thread from 2004 which might be informative for some or may help to see a few peoples' points of view regarding the Soccer forum.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=152971

jesus.:(

mike65

A few names I've not seen for quite while in that lot.

Mike.