Soccer Forum

therecklessone

ecksor wrote:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=152971

I loved that thread!

Back in 04, Utd fans were banned because the mod was an Arsenal fan...

In 07, they're banned because the mod is a Liverpool fan...

Take that insignificant Arsenal!

SpAcEd OuT

copacetic wrote:

well it isn't like it is just me who thinks you are trolltastic is it? I didn't report any of your posts or ask for your ban, but you are banned. Nothing to do with me, although I totally agree with it. but thanks anyway I am very happy in my ignorance..

And many more think I shouldn't have been banned in fact only a very tiny minority of people think I should have been banned. You and Psi

you have to ask yourself why the vast majority of posters believed my banning was not necessary

GuanYin

therecklessone wrote:

I loved that thread!

Back in 04, Utd fans were banned because the mod was an Arsenal fan...

In 07, they're banned because the mod is a Liverpool fan...

Take that insignificant Arsenal!

How do you reckon that?

I'm not an Arsenal or a Liverpool fan.

GuanYin

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

And many more think I shouldn't have been banned in fact only a very tiny minority of people think I should have been banned. You and Psi

you have to ask yourself why the vast majority of posters believed my banning was not necessary

1. Where do you get this majority/minority thing from? A very small number of soccer forum users have posted here.

2. In the absence of direct admin intervention, Psi's (ie. mine) is the one that counts.

3. I believe if you wish to fight the ban, you should be addressing ecksor at this stage.

Time Magazine

Draupnir, on the old thread wrote:

I said "stick that up your ******", hardly a personal insult.

I lolled.

therecklessone

psi wrote:

How do you reckon that?

I'm not an Arsenal or a Liverpool fan.

*hint* I was jesting *hint*

The Muppet

therecklessone wrote:

*hint* I was jesting *hint*

You should know better. You forgot your smilie.;)

kaimera

old thread wrote:

It used to be a great forum with some very openly and intellectually debated topics. But now its just mindless replies of cock shaking

*snigger*

Villain

Jesus I remember that thread from 2004 and it actually helped me find a link to a Politics thread I started at the same time about Bertie that I was trying to find.

Cheers Ecksor

gandalf

Jaysus that brings back memories (not good ones!!).....

The Muppet

gandalf wrote:

Jaysus that brings back memories (not good ones!!).....

How's the thearpy going Gandalf ?

RoundyMooney

It just reinforces the fact that this is by no means a new problem.

While the present modding policy makes sense in the context of the 2004 events, I feel that the level of control is the issue that many people (not just the agitators) have a beef with.

I'm still at a loss to understand though, while perfectly functional discussion forums can operate with varying degrees of success on the web, a viable, free running Soccer forum cannot run on board without an unsustainable amount of moderation input.

I feel too, that people should put more store in the opinions of the present moderators, whatever their opinions may be. The fact that they are so close to the coalface, while easy to mark down as a cause of tunnel vision, also means that they have a better handle on the problems and causes of the ongoing sh1te that seems to surround running this forum without muppetry, and with a level of even handedness that pleases the majority.

People are obviously not happy. The issue to address here is firstly, whether they constitute a majority-which would tell it's own story, and secondly, if there's a way of addressing the root problems here without getting bogged down in overblown differences of opinion.

I don't have an answer...

GuanYin

Well noone has yet put a coherent case forward for how things could be improved.

People claim there is no banter. I'm fine with banter so long as it's (1) welcomed by both parties or two sided and (2) non abusive. I think the issue isn't that there is no banter, just that people can't constrain it to "friendly banter" unfriendly banter is otherwise known as trolling.

People claim that the forum is restrictive in what you can say. This is only true about the context of what is said. Outright abuse isn't tolerated. You can't just go around calling people (users, players, managers, referees whatever) scum for no reason (or at least no stated reason). If you have an opinion about someone's actions, I don't think anyone can complain if you voice it passionately.

People say the mods are inconsistant. I don't see that myself, I think our visibility or our online time varies which doesn't help. We sometimes miss things, it's a busy forum. We rely on reported posts and PMs to a degree. If I miss something today, I might get it tomorrow, or one of the other mods might. Of course, by that time I've often seen 2 threads about inconsistant modding :rolleyes:.

People say the users aren't happy. No, a small number of users aren't happy. I'm still getting alot of access requests, people are reading the forum if you look at the thread views and we get new posters every week. The small number of people complaining are often people previously banned or (as makes me laugh) people who don't post (why not post and see how the forum is).

Remember, you ALL agreed to the rules before joining the forum. If you break them, it's a bit rich saying that the rules are too strict. If the rules are so bad, why did you agree to them?

I'm happy with taking constructive and polite criticism. If someone wants to outline the issues and suggest how we can resolve the issues without the forum resorting to the old ways, I'll listen and discuss.

I haven't seen many people even try yet.

BaZmO*

Majority/Minority? Why don't you just do a poll on the actual Soccer Forum to see whether people are happy with the current rules/moderation.

Make the poll public and then you can see if it's the usual troublemakers (if that's what you want to call them) that aren't happy or whether it's the majority.

RoundyMooney

A bit of a dumb question, I've only been lurking, posting etc., here since 04 anyway when all this came to a head, and posted about ten times in my first year as a regged user, so I haven't been privy to the original problem.

Objectively, what was the catalyst that kicked all this off pre '04?

Did the forum ever run smoothly since its inception?

I can read between the lines between what came up on the mod forum around that time and the famous feedback thread that was posted here earlier, but how bad did the muppetry and flaming get to warrant the plethora of bannings, and ultimately the closure of the forum in the first place?

Having asked that question, should I put on some popcorn?

RoundyMooney

BaZmO* wrote:

Majority/Minority? Why don't you just do a poll on the actual Soccer Forum to see whether people are happy with the current rules/moderation.

Make the poll public and then you can see if it's the usual troublemakers (if that's what you want to call them) that aren't happy or whether it's the majority.

I suggested a poll on the proposed Soccerdome, or more accurately, a variation of it in line with my own, Smashey's and WWM's ideas (in Feedback).

I think it would be a good idea, even given that some people will be unable to contribute (including me-as I never requested access), because the vast majority of those with an interest will be able to vote on the poll.

RE*AC*TOR

psi wrote:

No, a small number of users aren't happy.

How's about a poll in the soccer forum stickied at the top?

Two options: yes and no.

Q: Are you completely happy with the current soccer forum charter and rules (access, bannings etc etc)?

Public poll (ie can see who votes for what).

That will answer that question in a more definitive way.

*edit* I can see a few posters got in ahead of me suggesting the poll ^^^

mike65

Objectively, what was the catalyst that kicked all this off pre '04?

I think it was one Utd-Arsenal flame war too many. There had been a few contentious games between the two and this fed through.

Mike.

RoundyMooney

mike65 wrote:

I think it was one Utd-Arsenal flame war too many. There had been a few contentious games between the two and this fed through.

At least it was nothing more sinister, like a dedicated troll attack or something...

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

*edit* I can see a few posters got in ahead of me suggesting the poll

Anseo

GuanYin

4 soccer users replied to my post and not one issue highlighted.

RoundyMooney

psi wrote:

4 soccer users replied to my post and not one issue highlighted.

mise wrote:

I don't have an answer...

The last few posts were more or less in response to mine, so I wouldn't take that as an indication in any event.

I (and others) have suggested a poll-somewhere.

Alternatively, post a suggestions thread on the forum, it shouldn't be a major issue to soft delete any posts that deviate from the topic (which should be an option of last resort IMO).

These are not answers. I don't have those, but an opportunity to give users the chance to speak for themselves. Statistics of users on the access list versus those who post elsewhere on this topic are not the whole story.

edit: I'm not trying to be inflammatory here Psi (we've already had a chat about this on the other thread), but I don't see how not posting on a forum=not being entitled to an opinion on the various vagaries of it.

I don't post on tCN, and I have an opinion on that which I won't go in to here

copacetic

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

How's about a poll in the soccer forum stickied at the top?

Two options: yes and no.

Q: Are you completely happy with the current soccer forum charter and rules (access, bannings etc etc)?

Public poll (ie can see who votes for what).

That will answer that question in a more definitive way.

*edit* I can see a few posters got in ahead of me suggesting the poll ^^^

that is hardly a fair question. when has anyone on boards ever been 'completely happy' about anything!

'Are you no more than normally pissed off with the current state of the soccer forum'

would be more like it

GuanYin

RoundyMooney wrote:

The last few posts were more or less in response to mine, so I wouldn't take that as an indication in any event.

I (and others) have suggested a poll-somewhere.

Alternatively, post a suggestions thread on the forum, it shouldn't be a major issue to soft delete any posts that deviate from the topic (which should be an option of last resort IMO).

These are not answers. I don't have those, but an opportunity to give users the chance to speak for themselves. Statistics of users on the access list versus those who post elsewhere on this topic are not the whole story.

Well in all fairness, your response was to mine and they're called "threads" for a reason.

The place for feedback on the soccer forum is the feedback forum.

I don't believe that discussion of forum moderation belongs in the forum itself for several reasons, the most obvious of which being its very hard for forum moderators to moderate such threads without claims of victimisation (or indeed, temptation of abuse of power). It's just inviting some of our more dispicable posters to troll the mods and then complain about them when they get a kick in the arse.

Thats not soccer I'm talking about, thats my view on boards.ie in general.

If someone has something constructive to put in and discuss, lets hear it.

All I've seen so far is baseless whinging and abuse.

Roundeymoody wrote:

edit: I'm not trying to be inflammatory here Psi (we've already had a chat about this on the other thread), but I don't see how not posting on a forum=not being entitled to an opinion on the various vagaries of it.

Well I think you have to walk a mile in another persons shoes.

If you're not posting, you're not subject to alot of the trolling and mudflinging that goes on.

I mean I have plenty of PMs and posts giving out about trolling and lack of protection from it. Add to that reported posts and they're far outnumbering the complaints here.

The difference is that here I can't see the exact issue that people are complaining about.

RoundyMooney

Yes, but threads are hardly as regimental as that. I asked a question after you post, hence the responses and all that.

I agree with you in general here though, and take your point in response to the suggestion/poll/whatyamaycallit. Fair enough.

This thread has been primarily about folk questioning individual mod issues.

If the topic remains at that, we'll never get anywhere. If people could focus on the bigger issue, we might get somewhere...

RE*AC*TOR

psi wrote:

4 soccer users replied to my post and not one issue highlighted.

1. Cruel and unusual restriction of language (that doesn't apply across boards).

2. Locking / deleting of potentially inflammatory topics - that might have developed into interesting threads.

3. Banning people for having a "trolling tone".

4. Breeding of a culture where if someone calls Essien a scumbag for hacking the legs off Didi Hammann, everybody hits the report post button and user is banned. What does this achieve?

5. Someone posts a topic that another user or groups of users doesn't like - they report the post as trolling. User banned.

David Michael

ecksor wrote:

Went looking for something a while ago and found this thread from 2004 which might be informative for some or may help to see a few peoples' points of view regarding the Soccer forum.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=152971

Back then mindless perception was goot. You are all very serious. CS forum etc. Suggest admins step in and say "shut the fuk up" Sadly marketing dictates otherwise

George Michael FTW!!

BaZmO*

psi wrote:

Well in all fairness, your response was to mine and they're called "threads" for a reason.

The place for feedback on the soccer forum is the feedback forum.

I don't believe that discussion of forum moderation belongs in the forum itself for several reasons, the most obvious of which being its very hard for forum moderators to moderate such threads without claims of victimisation (or indeed, temptation of abuse of power). It's just inviting some of our more dispicable posters to troll the mods and then complain about them when they get a kick in the arse.

You stated that you feel that it's only a small proportion of posters that have a problem with the soccer forum moderation or rules, which may be the case, but people challenged that and gave you a suggestion as to how to find out once and for all whether that is or isn't the case. Why don't you just try it and see?

As for it going off topic, why don't you just state in the initial post that people shouldn't post and just click one of the choices and any replies will be delete? Discussions could me made in this thread.

It'd way to prove your point that it's a minority.

David Michael

Kill* Psi so!!!

Lets fast forward!

:eek:



*=star thing

ecksor

RoundyMooney wrote:

While the present modding policy makes sense in the context of the 2004 events, I feel that the level of control is the issue that many people (not just the agitators) have a beef with.

I'm quite happy to see a discussion around a change in conditions / rules upon the forum if the moderators feel that such a thing is workable and with suggestions / comments from the users of the forum.

I just wanted to provide some background information, since some of the assumptions being jumped to about why the current systems / rules are in place were unfair and probably unaware of past events.

I'm still at a loss to understand though, while perfectly functional discussion forums can operate with varying degrees of success on the web, a viable, free running Soccer forum cannot run on board without an unsustainable amount of moderation input.

For all I know there's been some youth culture shift that means that this sort of thing would no longer kick off as badly as it did in the past. Or perhaps there's some side-effect of people supporting teams that they have no real connection to that makes the discussions a bit unbearable.

ecksor

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Q: Are you completely happy with the current soccer forum charter and rules (access, bannings etc etc)?

The word 'completely' is a bit restrictive, it's probably impossible to satisfy the majority completely. Replace with 'mostly' and it would be more informative.