Who won the debate on RTE

betonit

close enough, I think Bertie may have made some believe that some FG policies are not feasible. Enda's doing himself no favours with his 'contract' spin. Really whats on the line if he doesnt deliver his contract in full. The 'I have a contract with the Irish people' thing is cringe.

Leon11

bertie (from a non-supporter)

TJJP

RTE won, convincing everyone to watch that drivel with their incessant hype. Was almost tempted to switch to TV3, but it wasn’t that bad…

Jackz

Bertie.

jhegarty

Enda.... and I really was ready to see him wiped tonight...

flogen

Win for Bertie by 3 points after 12 rounds.

A very dull match with only three punches connecting properly in my opinion, and they were all from Bertie.

Enda had a great chance to ridicule Bertie's transport plan and didn't. He should have turned the screw on the metro for 2007 and didn't and when Bertie said "no other country in Europe is currently building 2 metro lines and 7 luas extensions" he should have retorted "well that's because every other country in Europe built their metros and light rail networks long ago".

Three landed punches:
FG tax policy benefiting the top 3% most (Enda kept saying it would benefit everyone but didn't deny that it would benefit the rich most - I think he could have come back on a slip up by Bertie on PRSI but failed to pick up on it.)

FG plans to put 2000 Gardaí on the street in addition to today's figures - 800 of those will be on the streets by December no matter what so FG are only adding 1,200 to that.

FG plans for free GP care for the under 5s - Bertie making the point that it won't benefit any child born today... that doesn't mean it's a bad idea, it just means that voters with newborn children will be turned off by it where they might have supported it otherwise.

simu

Enda was more annoying.

Neither was very convincing for an undecided voter like moi!

Jonny Arson

flogen wrote:

FG plans to put 2000 Gardaí on the street in addition to today's figures - 800 of those will be on the streets by December no matter what so FG are only adding 1,200 to that.

That is Ahern spin. 2,000 extra Gardaí on top of the 800 who will come on force by the end of the year..

flogen wrote:

FG plans for free GP care for the under 5s - Bertie making the point that it won't benefit any child born today... that doesn't mean it's a bad idea, it just means that voters with newborn children will be turned off by it where they might have supported it otherwise.

Unless there are some people who expect FG/Lab to deleiver that on the first day they are elected then that wasn't a punch. Weak punch with no substance

Your Man

flogen wrote:

Win for Bertie by 3 points after 12 rounds.

A very dull match with only three punches connecting properly in my opinion, and they were all from Bertie.

Enda had a great chance to ridicule Bertie's transport plan and didn't. He should have turned the screw on the metro for 2007 and didn't and when Bertie said "no other country in Europe is currently building 2 metro lines and 7 luas extensions" he should have retorted "well that's because every other country in Europe built their metros and light rail networks long ago".

Three landed punches:
FG tax policy benefiting the top 3% most (Enda kept saying it would benefit everyone but didn't deny that it would benefit the rich most - I think he could have come back on a slip up by Bertie on PRSI but failed to pick up on it.)

FG plans to put 2000 Gardaí on the street in addition to today's figures - 800 of those will be on the streets by December no matter what so FG are only adding 1,200 to that.

FG plans for free GP care for the under 5s - Bertie making the point that it won't benefit any child born today... that doesn't mean it's a bad idea, it just means that voters with newborn children will be turned off by it where they might have supported it otherwise.

have to agree there...and add another punch for bertie- Ahern really made a joke of Fine Gaels 2300 extra hospital beds imo. Kennt didnt seem to know his figures at all

Colonel Sanders

super_furry wrote:

I'm tempted to say that they both lost, but Enda Kenny had the slight edge in a horribly dull affair. It wouldn't inspire me to vote for either of them.

my sentiments exactly

rollie

Jonny Arson wrote:

That is Ahern spin. 2,000 extra Gardaí on top of the 800 who will come on force by the end of the year..

thats not what i got, from my adding kenny wants 15,000 gards total, berti want 16,000....did i hear this wrong??

Ardent

I thought Kenny made his points clearer and came across as the more sincere, Aherns's game plan seemed to be to snipe as much as possible and try to knock Kenny off his stride.

Draw for me but Kenny more believable.

(Ahern was comical dealing with the questions put to him regarding his government's failures in health and justice - bare faced lies and fantasies regarding his party's "achievements".)

cm2000

rollie wrote:

thats not what i got, from my adding kenny wants 15,000 gards total, berti want 16,000....did i hear this wrong??

no but enda didnt want to put it like that

Agent J

Draw but if you put a gun to my head i would say kenny only because of his demeanor vs aherns.

Anyone who says either side won by a mile or anything like is both wrong and biased.

Also i wouldnt be too worried if i was either side.

Apart from die hard politcal junkies there is NO way joe pubic sat through all of that. I was struggling from falling asleep/ changing chanel or doing something else after the tribunal section(Which really shouldnt have been brought up as its been done to death)

As much as it pains me to say it, kenny came out a lot better i thought..it pains me to say it, not because im a mad fianna fail head..to be honest ive spent an enormous amount of time complaining about them over the last few years, ...but christ, kenny gives me a pain in the face..

duridian

Your Man wrote:

have to agree there...and add another punch for bertie- Ahern really made a joke of Fine Gaels 2300 extra hospital beds imo. Kennt didnt seem to know his figures at all

Now in fairness to Enda, he's probably still feeling the effects from the fumes of all that brown hair dye...
Seriously though, he really had his figures all funked up on crime as well, and Bertie stuck it to him for that.

Trotter

I'd give it to Enda.

Badabing

I think Bertie won it he knew his stuff, i dont tink kenny would have came across well at all to labour voters.

Giblet

Enda sounded like he was reading out a shopping list and Bertie was the man to tell him that he couldn't afford another bar of chocolate.

flogen

Jonny Arson wrote:

That is Ahern spin. 2,000 extra Gardaí on top of the 800 who will come on force by the end of the year..

Well why didn't Kenny say that? He kept saying they were committed to 2000 extra Gardaí on the street, but while Ahern kept saying FF would put 2000 extra on on top of the 800 already on the way, Kenny just said "we'll put 2000 more on the street".

If it was Ahern spin then Kenny sat back and let him work it.

Unless there are some people who expect FG/Lab to deleiver that on the first day they are elected then that wasn't a punch. Weak punch with no substance

Well some voters might expect them to bring in the policy in one swoop, or at least would have expected them to until tonight.

Of course it was a landed punch, though, because it made a point on a policy that FG were happy to overlook until then - like all political parties they're happy to leave some blanks and let the people make their own assumptions on policy... I mean are you telling me that when a FG candidate is doorstepping a young family with a newborn they wouldn't say "well we're going to make sure that all under 5s have free GP care"? They certainly wouldn't say "well we're going to make sure that all under 5s have free GP care, but that won't effect you because your child will be 6 by then anyway."

The same trick applies to stamp duty - I've little positive to say about the PDs but I think they're the only party promising to make their stamp duty changes immediately - the others are happy to let the voter believe that on their first day in office stamp duty would be revoked.

duridian

Trotter wrote:

I'd give it to Enda.

I'd rather give it to his wife.

sorry Trotter couldn't resist that one...

Villain

Draw

flogen

Oh - and the thing on crime was very embaressing (while not Kenny's fault). Having to admit that his justice spokesperson didn't have figures on crime while he was making accusations on the same topic at one of the party's daily briefings... that smacks of amateurism to me and I'm sure O'Keeffe got a few slaps for that gaffe.

Kristopherus

Deleted User wrote:

As much as it pains me to say it, kenny came out a lot better i thought..it pains me to say it, not because im a mad fianna fail head..to be honest ive spent an enormous amount of time complaining about them over the last few years, ...but christ, kenny gives me a pain in the face..

Hope it didnt make you go OVER the edge !!!! I think Kenny will do better out of it as he didnt get the walloping I thought he would.

burnedfaceman

i thought enda edged it in respect to the matters that are of the most importance to me, crime health education and the economy.. aherns experience was an obvious benefit on his part and his manner of talking over enda was very annoying

cm2000

flogen wrote:

Oh - and the thing on crime was very embaressing (while not Kenny's fault). Having to admit that his justice spokesperson didn't have figures on crime while he was making accusations on the same topic at one of the party's daily briefings... that smacks of amateurism to me and I'm sure O'Keeffe got a few slaps for that gaffe.

what was kenny's point? his spokesman didn't have the figure so made random ones up?? bizzare

Trotter

duridian wrote:

I'd rather give it to his wife.

sorry Trotter couldn't resist that one...

Hands up.. I deserved that lol


If it was a choice of the 3.. I'd give it to Miriam so

joecoote

Oh how I despair. If I had to call it, it was a draw. The real winner apathy.

Lennoxschips

cm2000 wrote:

what was kenny's point? his spokesman didn't have the figure so made random ones up?? bizzare

Enda said that, according to the CSO statistics for 2003-2006, which he quoted, murder was up 46%, gun crime 36% and rape 25%.

Instead of acknowledging these facts, which are from the CSO, Bertie went into complete spin and said that a FG spokesman said something else six weeks ago. Complete denial of reality.

It was sickening. And what's worse is that it impresses some people.

The point shouldn't be that an FG spokesperson made an error in quoting statistics in the past, the point is that murder, gun crime and rape are spiraling out of control, all under Bertie's leadership. That's what's important.

Milktrolley

Agent J wrote:

Anyone who says either side won by a mile or anything like is both wrong and biased.

No argument there. The whole thing was very very boring. I know it was never going to live up to the "menopausal Paris Hilton" stuff of last night, but even so it was very lifeless. In my tired state right now I'd say it was a scoreless draw, Bertie got more digs in but overall I'm still undecided.

Agent J wrote:

joe pubic

Zing!