Who won the debate on RTE

cm2000

Lennoxschips wrote:

Enda said that, according to the CSO statistics for 2003-2006, which he quoted, murder was up 46%, gun crime 36% and rape 25%.

Instead of acknowledging these facts, which are from the CSO, Bertie went into complete spin and said that a FG spokesman said something else six months ago. Complete denial of reality.

It was sickening. And what's worse is that it impresses some people.

no the fg spokesman said that crime had risen year on year(amongst other things) which is false and he made up. kenny's excuse was he didnt have the figures and is excused. bull.

darkbeatz

cm2000 wrote:

what was kenny's point? his spokesman didn't have the figure so made random ones up?? bizzare

no jim o keefe said crime has gone down and detection gone up. kenny was saying crime is gone up.

ahern for me.

Lennoxschips

cm2000 wrote:

no the fg spokesman said that crime had risen year on year(amongst other things) which is false and he made up. kenny's excuse was he didnt have the figures and is excused. bull.

Frankly I couldn't give a feck about some FG spokesman quoting bad figures. To obsessively concentrate on that minute detail is complete spin.

What's Bertie's excuse for gun crime, murder and rape spiraling between 2003-2006? That's what I want to know. That's what is important.

liamdubh

I'd say it was a draw, but that in itself is a massive victory for Kenny. He came off as Taoiseach material as others have pointed out. He has the poll numbers, he needs to maintain that and maintain momentum. He didn't lose it tonight, it was Bertie's chance to make up some ground and he didn't do it.

We'll see what the polls say tomorrow though.

cm2000

Lennoxschips wrote:

Frankly I couldn't give a feck about some FG spokesman quoting bad figures. To obsessively concentrate on that minute detail is complete spin.

What's Bertie's excuse for gun crime, murder and rape spiraling between 2003-2006? That's what I want to know. That's what is important.

well rape i don't know but organised crime is an unfortunate consequence of countries with strong economies

duridian

Trotter wrote:

Hands up.. I deserved that lol


If it was a choice of the 3.. I'd give it to Miriam so

Yeah, me too. Reckon I'd be well in and all, she hails originally from only a couple of miles away from here originally. Could play the "I'm wan of your own" card... hehe

Milktrolley wrote:

"menopausal Paris Hilton"

Eeek:eek: That's an image I hope is purged from my mind by the time I wake up in the morning.

2040

Bertie had Enda agreeing with him 3 times and even had him apologise once. Kenny's inexperience really showed through. As Bertie was speaking, Kenny was too busy thinking of what he was going to say next rather than looking for Bertie's weak spots. Bertie on the other hand listened and attacked accordingly. Bertie was chancing his arm at various stages but Kenny never copped it. Health is Fine Gael's strong point but Enda failed to nail it. I thought Kenny concerned himself too much with soundbyte type concepts like leadership while Bertie talked specifics. I'm watching prime time now and they're saying draw, but really i thought it was Bertie.

edit: and yeah, organised crime is a consequence of strong economics but i don't think a politician will ever say that, it sounds like a cop out

smartblaa

I loved Bertie's slip-up when he was waffling about healthcare provisions ..

"Well, I believe in many of the ailments that we have in society"

IMHO Bertie came across as arrogant and smarmy, he constantly interrupted Kenny..but when Kenny talked across Bertie once or twice, he got on his high horse.

Marcus.Aurelius

A draw, Kenny looked very comfortable, polite, but failed to hit home. Bertie was uncomfortable to begin with, settled in, but came off as a bully rather than a serious politician.

Will be interesting to see if this has ANY effect on polls.

Lennoxschips

smartblaa wrote:

I loved Bertie's slip-up when he was waffling about healthcare provisions ..

"Well, I believe in many of the ailments that we have in society"

IMHO Bertie came across as arrogant and smarmy, he constantly interrupted Kenny..but when Kenny talked across Bertie once or twice, he got on his high horse.

during the 'payments' bit he was also showing off about how he'd never get away with what he did under the new ethics bill he introduced. talk about trying to dig yourself out of a hole

shinners007

I was an undecided untill tonight i will now be voting FF Bertie knew his stuff, was relaxed honest and displayed leadership qualities unlike enda kenny who waffled all night and tryed to come across as a sincere family man with all these policies and plans for the country yet he knew nothing on stats or how he would implement them. Vote for him no thanks!!!
His painful smary, boring and does not have what it takes to lead this country in to the future, id give the vote to FF based on what they have already achieved, their knowledge and there passion to remain in goverment and do better and more. I mean FG admitting Jim o keeffe wasnt up to date on stats, gardai numbers, tax etc and not even ouytlining how to conjoin policies with labour pathetic. Construction will die, umemployment will rise etc as it always has when FG has been in goverment.
Bertie definately is the peoples man and he showed pride and passion to night unlike enda kenny who clearly was ruffled up and an embarrassement to FG.:eek: :eek: :eek: No surprises there.....

To conclude a very boring debate where no knock out blow was given by either of the men.

jank

On the face of it Bertie won because he was more agressive and had to go for it but enda didnt do too bad what so ever so both parties will be happy.

Interesting what the next week holds.

Still think labour FG and greens though in the next government. 10 years is long enough.

OPENROAD

Bertie, just, very poor debate overall, FG had such an opportunity tonight but imo Kenny blew it, whether it was nerves or not,he is just so dull, dulll dull.

Limerick Dude

I thought Kenny had the basis of a good debate in front of him but unfortunatly he let Bertie bully him and put spins on the points he was making.

Kenny has potential to be a good Taoiseach because I think he has the right attitude but at this moment in time he is just does not have the experience or the "killer instinct" to be our leader for the next 5 years.

Kenny I thought could easily of had many good comebacks to what Bertie was saying to him but he just kept repeating the same original point which was really annoying me. The fact that he kept avoiding the question of where them money was going to come from for the beds made me uncomfortable.

Overall I think Kenny had a huge oppurtunity to really hit the point home of how ff have fcuked up so much in the past but he just does not have that killer instinct. I think Bertie won the debate overall, but only just.

I dont want to vote FF or FG as i do not trust either of them to head the next government so Im pretty annoyed at that. I think Rabbitte would make a better Taoiseach than enda tbh.

marie_85

A scoreless draw, which was badly chaired. Sorry, Miriam supporters.

Ahern was his usual waffling self. Kenny should have hammered home his points a lot more effectively. FF have an appalling track record on health, transport, education and crime over the past ten years and his 'I met a woman last week' stories just did not cut it. He let Ahern speak over him far too much, he actually apologised to him once and he praised him far too much. But Ahern was not great either. And I felt Miriam should have been a lot more aggressive with both of them, especially Ahern. She was practically feeding him answers at some points.

Hasn't changed my mind in the slightest, I'll still be voting Greens 1st, Labour 2nd and neither FF or FG will get a preference.

OPENROAD

Maybe Miriam needs to start watching Paxo and take some tips from him, as I too thought she was very poor tonight.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

shinners007

how the hell can people say bertie waffled total BS !!!!!! Kenny was clueless showed his all for the rich people as good as said he'll bust the economic growth trying to implenement his crapy policies and hadnt a clue on stats his not fit to be in goverment or to lead this country end off!!

brianthebard

Lennoxschips wrote:

Frankly I couldn't give a feck about some FG spokesman quoting bad figures. To obsessively concentrate on that minute detail is complete spin.

Well in fairness that's what most of the debate came down to, no of guards, no. in training, 2billion this, 2.4 billion that...

Did anyone else hear them bandying those numbers around and this that no one should be allowed control that much wealth? Or was that just me?

darkman2

BERTIE WON IT


Now lets move on to a successful election for Fianna Fail and the PD's.

brianthebard

Large red font! I cannot fail to be convinced!!!

The_Minister

I said earlier it was a draw but, on reflection,I think that Bertie came off better.
Bertie beat Enda on crime (Enda was using old statistics, and any idiot knows that crime rises as population increases. Despite that, our crime rate per population is low, and Vertie showed that well)
Bertie won on health, finally nailing Enda on a point that Fine Gael had been dodging for far too long.
Bertie won on his personal finances, giving a credible sounding explanation for most of the questions.

Bertie came off best, as these were the areas that the Opposition was hoping to win on.

darkman2

brianthebard wrote:

Large red font! I cannot fail to be convinced!!!

I know;)

InFront

Enda Kenny had the valid points and better proposals (FG proposals and FF failures dominated this debate, which suits FG), however the debate will be considered won on grounds of who the average watcher found more favour with. There's no doubt that it was Bertie Ahern in this instance, he spoke over Kenny and nosed ahead to win the debate, and slyly dismissed the charges against him as far innocent than they are.

However, he has a form for losing debates and winning elections. Perhaps his fortunes are reversed this time!

gandalf

Use the existing thread. Any more new threads started up on this subject will result in bannings.

I will delete this thread in the morning.