Irish Broadband Packet Loss

chaostik

Thought I'd post here to see if any other Irish Broadband users have noticed the recent drop in the reliability of Irish Broadband's backbone?

There was a 30 minute or so outage which 2 other friends who use IBB noticed too on 11th iirc, and since then the network seems to lose anything upto 5% of packets depending where you're communicating to.

I first noticed a problem when trying to use Ventrilo (which I've used fine for donkies) ... suddenly voice would cut out and then suddenly I'd get 30 seconds of everyone speaking at once as the thing caught up with itself. Skype is distorting something nasty too. Similarly, online gaming became completely impossible due to insane lag. Of course, browsing websites and doing email still seem just fine but they'd be much less sensitive to network reliability.

So, I used Wireshark to capture the TCP sessions of some tests. Using Ventrilo I was getting roughly 5% of packets showing "TCP dup ACKs" and "TCP Retransmissions" which, afaik is tell-tale of packet loss. Fiddling round I found this on many websites too, but interestingly not all (just the vast majority). Finally I tried IBB's own website and was astonished to see the exact same thing: 5% packet loss.

Why am I so sure this packet loss is on IBB's backbone and not an issue with my connection? Well, after discovering that one of the websites I got no packet loss to was one I help administer in London I setup a VPN to there and routed all my traffic over it: nett result, packet loss on Ventrilo, non-IBB websites and gaming all disappeared. That places the ball squarely at IBB's feet.

I sent all my analysis to them and this was their reply:

We’ve been changing our main connections recently and all backup links were up & running at full speed due to establishing new routes within our network. This could cause problems with the connection recently.

Conveniently they failed to indicate when I could expect these problems to cease and they've not responded to me asking this 3 days ago. We're now running at 8 days of unacceptably high packet loss and no timeline for a fix ... it seems a rather long maintenance window by anyone's standards!

Anyone else been communicating with IBB about this and got any more joy than me?

thebman

PING boards.ie (89.234.66.107) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 89.234.66.107: icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=14.2 ms
64 bytes from 89.234.66.107: icmp_seq=2 ttl=56 time=12.9 ms
64 bytes from 89.234.66.107: icmp_seq=3 ttl=56 time=17.3 ms
64 bytes from 89.234.66.107: icmp_seq=4 ttl=56 time=11.6 ms
64 bytes from 89.234.66.107: icmp_seq=5 ttl=56 time=14.8 ms
64 bytes from 89.234.66.107: icmp_seq=6 ttl=56 time=13.4 ms
64 bytes from 89.234.66.107: icmp_seq=7 ttl=56 time=12.8 ms
64 bytes from 89.234.66.107: icmp_seq=8 ttl=56 time=13.9 ms
64 bytes from 89.234.66.107: icmp_seq=9 ttl=56 time=13.9 ms
64 bytes from 89.234.66.107: icmp_seq=10 ttl=56 time=14.7 ms
64 bytes from 89.234.66.107: icmp_seq=11 ttl=56 time=17.2 ms

--- boards.ie ping statistics ---
11 packets transmitted, 11 received, 0% packet loss, time 50306ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 11.691/14.312/17.372/1.671 ms

Ping times from maynooth on Irish Broadband.

zoid

sorry not sure what the last post means? is it good that there was 0% packet loss or bad that the time was 50306ms??

my upload speed is terrible now with Irish Broadband, 2 weeks ago it was fine but now it's down to 5Kbps, could this be due to "the recent drop in the reliability of Irish Broadband's backbone"?

ZoiD

chaostik

Thanks for the pings. Sadly, ping and traceroute are not guaranteed to show up packet loss issues afaik. My traceroutes seem, by and large, to be ok ... but packet loss is still there.

Maybe others haven't noticed if they aren't using voice/gaming/some other app sensitive to packet loss?

If anyone else is interested in helping to see if they can get more detail and perhaps see if this is unique to me, then just download Wireshark and do a capture while surfing some of your favourite sites. If you get any black lines in the capture (most should be grey/blue/green colour coded) which are "TCP dup ACK" or "TCP Retransmission" then that is a sign of packet loss.

There are a bunch of sites which seem fine for me (including the one I've set up a VPN to as a short term fix), while others are lossy.

Thanks

chaostik

zoid wrote:

my upload speed is terrible now with Irish Broadband, 2 weeks ago it was fine but now it's down to 5Kbps, could this be due to "the recent drop in the reliability of Irish Broadband's backbone"?

ZoiD

Thanks for posting ZoiD ... is there any chance you can run Wireshark while doing one of these uploads to see if you get a lot of TCP dup ACKs etc? They will show up as black lines in the capture.

zoid

i had a look at Wireshark but it's only for PCs, i use a MacBook Pro - know any mac programs that do the same thing?
cheers
zoid

chaostik

zoid wrote:

i had a look at Wireshark but it's only for PCs, i use a MacBook Pro - know any mac programs that do the same thing?

Wireshark has been ported to OS X fortunately, since it is actually a Unix program by heritage I believe. The site is here:

http://www.finkconsulting.com/page7.php

Ignore the nightmare long list of dependencies and just grab the disk images imho: either Wireshark OS X (Intel) or Wireshark OS X (PPC). It'll be the Intel one if you're on a Macbook Pro.

Thanks for offering this assistance in verifying the issue! Look forward to hearing how you get on: shout if the software is in any way unintuitive.

zoid

hi chaostik,
i downloaded the wireshark os x intel file and installed the program, but it didn't work. i was looking at wiki.wireshark.org just now and there are instructions for building and installing wireshark for mac os x which look quite long and complicated, so i'm going to give it a miss - sorry!

anyway, since last night my upload speed has returned to normal so there is currently no problem to investigate.

good luck with the packet loss problem!
zoid

chaostik

OK thanks for giving it a bash anyhow.

Anyone else out there on IBB care to give it a go pls? I did all the analysis again yesterday and it was still showing packet loss to me, over 2 weeks after it started.

Thanks

WizZard

Yeah, i've noticed a serious amount of packet loss over the last while (2-3 weeks). Since I think of IBB as about as reliable as two tin cans and a piece of string I just ignored it, and shunted the line to lowest priority in our LB.

Monotype

OK, I got wireshark. Can I do this from a wireless connection (to the router) or does that defeat the purpose?

I went to capture->Options->Start
What next?

Just ran Wireshark there and Im getting a load of "black lines" aka packet loss. Disaster.

Monotype

Is that all I'm looking for? Yeah there's loads of black lines. I'd say maybe 1/20-30 or so.

thebman

I might run it tonight if I get time.

BTW this program is in the Ubuntu add/remove section for anyone that wants to run this using Ubuntu.

chaostik

Cool! Thanks everyone for the replies.

Can I do this from a wireless connection (to the router) or does that defeat the purpose?

Shouldn't matter ... since we're doing this same test with lots of different people then anything local to you can be ruled out if you get the same issues.

Just ran Wireshark there and Im getting a load of "black lines" aka packet loss. Disaster.

Darn But then again, at least we're building a catalogue of people who are experiencing the same issue. IBB need to take notice and start fixing it or else any interactive services like voice chat/gaming are just going to remain unusable and web pages will continue to seem to stall.

Is that all I'm looking for? Yeah there's loads of black lines.

Yep, at the most basic level black line = bad news. If you see lots of black lines with "TCP dup ACK" or "TCP Retransmission" etc then that's symptomatic of packet loss. In my experience, some destinations exhibit this while others don't.

If you only surf websites etc then you may barely notice it, but if you use voice software or gaming then you're in for a world of hurt should those servers be one of the packet lossy destinations.

Anyone else trying the test please do post and I'll mail this thread link to IBB tech support early next week.

Thanks!

daffy_duc

What towers are you guys on?

chaostik

daffy_duc wrote:

What towers are you guys on?

My first three hops are:

DN32-fe-0-0-1-160-marinella.irishbroadband.ie
DN34-fe-0-0-0-350-ballinteer.irishbroadband.ie
DN02-fe-1-3-0-13-3rock.irishbroadband.ie

Senzare

I got the same problem. I tried, without success, to contact them..
Download is quite ok, upload is crap.
If I do a ping test (sorry not very techie guy here) it goes good but as soon i raise the size of packets there's a huge loss rate (over 80%) sometimes..

Problem for me is that I play a game online, obviously since a bit of time is impossible, latency goes ofer 15000ms sometimes..

I wil try to call them back today.
Had the problem in the past for short periods (talking about hours) but now it lasts days..

TFA

Hi Guys,

I got my BB from Irish Broadband - wireless 35.99 per month - Breeze 2Mb. It seems to be fine for web pages and downloading but playing online poker seems to lag out on a frequent basis - i cant even play heads up. This only happened within the last 2 months. My firewall picked up allot of crackers that were IBB users. I had VNC installed and got 5 Irish broadband customers who tried to VNC into my PC. I sent their IP number's to IBB support as well as the IP numbers of users who constantly performed port scans all day every day and i might as well sent them to the pope. IBB allow users to change their IP which is ridiculous. I can see "person A" who uses a certain IP number then when their off i can use their IP number and do whatever i like. I can run simple programs in a matter of minutes to see who else is connected in my range and ports that they have open - and you would be surprised of what i could access not that i would be interested as i have better things to be doing with my time. I play allot of online poker and i am experiencing terrible lag costing me MONEY. All of a sudden i just lag fold hands and then i am back in 3 hands later. Meanwhile at the same time web pages display fine. This happens on all PCs, i even had 2 new laptops in the last week overnight and the same disconnecting problems occurs and this happened on 3 different online poker sites. Bottom line is that i am getting IBB out ASAP and getting broadband through the phone line don't care about the extra cost its worth it in the long run - probably will go with magnet. I should be up and running with new broadband shortly and will report back.

Cheers guys!

thebman

Ran Wire Shark, got no black lines in 2 minutes while I'm downloading a torrent and demo from Xbox Live.

I was playing Xbox Live, over the week end, PGR3 (racing) and Gears of War (action FPS) with people speaking and no skips or anything.

All seems well in Maynooth on IBB at the moment. Sorry it took so long to get this done. Maybe the problems mentioned have gone away.

zoid

found another way to test packet loss, using:

http://myvoipspeed.visualware.com/


getting up to 6.5% packet loss with my breeze 2Mb connection. not using a router, laptop connected directly to modem.

quality of service is 2% (another result from this web-based test). i can't upload anything, or if i can the speed is terrible, about 5Kbps. IBB customer service seem convinced it's not their problem.

ouldscratch

Chaostik have you ever heard of a fixed wireless provider that didn't lose packets. There is no such thing. Packet loss is unavoidable if you don't want it then get DSL.

dathiultaigh

ouldscratch wrote:

Packet loss is unavoidable if you don't want it then get DSL.

This does and can occur on phone line DSL