Manchester United Transfer Rumours/Discussion 2007/2008

marco_polo

From Football 365 looks like the Tevez transfer could get very messy indeed WTF is going on?

Would be very unimpressed if I was a Sheff Utd fan.

Carlos Tevez's transfer to Manchester United could be blocked by the Premier League in the ongoing confusion over who owns the rights to the forward.


Despite the player's own delight at the potential move - he described the prospect of playing for United as "spectacular" last night - the deal could be scuppered because of West Ham's promise to the Premier League that Tevez is their player.


'While United and West Ham began talks yesterday, the Tevez side are confident no money will have to be paid to West Ham to secure his registration. They believe his three-year contract lapsed along with West Ham's right to claim ownership when they terminated the third-party agreements in April,' reports the Daily Telegraph.


That will put them on a collision course with the Premier League, who announced last night: "As far as the Premier League are concerned Carlos Tevez is registered to West Ham and any potential deal taking him away from West Ham would have to be struck with the club."


The League's stance means that the Tevez move to Manchester United is far from sealed even if they have agreed a deal in principle with the player's representatives.


One possible avenue would be for West Ham to be paid a transfer fee and then agree a compensation figure with Kia Joorabchian for breaching contracts with his company Media Sports Investments (MSI) when the Hammers terminated third-party agreements following their £5.5million fine in April for breaching Premier League rules.


The League would want a substantial chunk of the transfer fee to remain at West Ham rather than it all be handed over to MSI in compensation, otherwise they could be accused of merely covering up the third-party agreements that have caused so much controversy. And that is likely to end up with Joorabchian taking them to court.


The difficulties centre on West Ham's actions at the time of the initial disciplinary commission into the affair in April. 'After being fined £5.5m,' reports The Guardian, 'the Hammers chose to rip up the third-party agreement that connected them to MSI and JSI.'


'That meant West Ham were effectively taking a £20m-plus-rated player as their own, despite never having paid a transfer fee. MSI and JSI refused to recognise West Ham's decision and instead prepared a path for the player to Old Trafford.


'After the disciplinary commission, West Ham had the choice of renegotiating terms with the player's handlers, who are led by Kia Joorabchian, in a deal akin to that which took Javier Mascherano to Liverpool in January. But that would have been a potentially complex discussion and Tevez was needed in a relegation fixture at Wigan the next day. The most expedient route was to rip up the contracts.'


With the Premier League set to take a more active role in transfers in the aftermath of the Stevens Report, the situation could cause problems for West Ham. As the League have been assured that West Ham are now fully in control of the player, they will insist that any transfer fee is paid to the club.


That will then see Joorabchian and the MSI and JSI companies, who own the rights to Tevez, begin legal action.


'The difficulty now for West Ham is that they must attempt to defend in court a situation that Sir Philip Otton, a former Lord Justice of Appeal, described in his arbitration judgment as probably not being "legally watertight."'


Tevez himself is keen to make the move to Old Trafford, contrary to some reports yesterday afternoon.


"For me, Manchester United will be a sensational destination and to be a member of Sir Alex Ferguson's squad will be absolutely spectacular," said the striker.


"My dream is to be an idol in English football and I can achieve this now."

Mitch Connor

It can be summurized as the fillowing:

West Ham had an illegal(in the football sense) contract for Tevez.
Eventually it came out.
West Ham illegally (in the real world sense) broke the contract for Tevez so they wouldn't get docked points.
The PL know all this, throw out the wrong punishment.
United look to legally sign Tevez from his legal owners (MSI) BUT if they do - it proves the West Ham deal wa a lot more illegal then the Premier League would like it to be; so they try to force the issue.

Unfortunately - the PL and WH are completely screwed if they don't shut their mouths and keep out of it. If United sign Tevez, and the PL kick up a fuss, what the real story with the contracts will come out. If United sign Tevez, give the money to west ham and then west ham do not give that to MSI (the prem won't allow them to...) MSI will kick up a fuss - present the real contracts and the prem and west ham are screwed.

The only way out of it for the premier league and west ham is to let United sign Tevez (in the EXACT same way they allowed AND HELPED liverpool sign Mascherano) and then bury their heads in the sand.

They really should have docked west ham points - things would have been a lot easier.

astrofool

<sarcasm>but that would have relegated them?!</sarcasm>

LostinBlanch

I knew this summer was too good to be true, signing Nani, Anderson and Hargeaves without a hitch. It'd be nice to see Tevez at OT but all we can do is wait and see what happens.

I do find it strange that Liverpool could sign Mascherano and that United are being blocked trying to sign Tevez in the same way. I think this one will run and run though.

Im_No_Superman

United sign Tevez on a two year loan deal for 6 million with the option of signing him for a further 3 years after that according to SSN! Absoluty delighted!

Mitch Connor

Im_No_Superman wrote:

United sign Tevez on a two year loan deal for 6 million with the option of signing him for a further 3 years after that according to SSN! Absoluty delighted!

you better not be pulling one!

Tauren

Tauren wrote:

The only way out of it for the premier league and west ham is to let United sign Tevez (in the EXACT same way they allowed AND HELPED liverpool sign Mascherano) and then bury their heads in the sand.

Exactly, I cant see how Liverpool are allowed sign Mascherano without a hitch but United get all this sh1t surrounding Tevez. The only difference between Mascherano and Tevez is that Tevez was instrumental in keepin WH up and hence is more at the centre of the controversy. Theres no difference in their contracts. If they intervene and stop United from signing this theyre gonna get exposed as the spineless fools they are and serious questions will be asked as to why 1) Liverpool were allowed sign Mascherano but United not allowed Tevez and 2) why West Ham are still a Premiership team in light of these facts.

Tauren wrote:

They really should have docked west ham points - things would have been a lot easier.

Agrees. The PL are a disgrace. Just like Ferdinands 8 month ban for missing a test (when guys got 3-4 month bans for FAILING a test) the PL are jumpin all over United tryin to exert a display of power and control. Incompetant twats.

Im_No_Superman

Tauren wrote:

you better not be pulling one!

Well thats what SSN are reporting, Im watching it right now. Supposidly he is going to have a medical at the Argentina training camp today.

mcgrailg

F365 are reporting that we have signed him but nothing yet on the sky site - any other info on this

Sizzler

PHB wrote:

Can't believe I forgot him, was wondering why the full backs positions was looking so thin Don't forget, a player for the future Hell, he scored some of the most important goals United scored all season Big game player!

You mean the tap in against Pompey in the 2-1 defeat

PHB wrote:

Personally I think the formation will be more like this:

---

VDS

---

---Neville

---

Ferdinand

---

Vidic

---

Evra--

---

Hargreaves/Fletcher---Carrick/Scholes

---

--Ronaldo/Park

---

Giggs/Nani/Anderson-

---

Tevez/Saha----Rooney/Rossi

---

I don't think this will be the end of Saha or Rossi, or at least I hope. Saha is defo staying I think. Rossi is open to question. Fergie likes four forwards. The only question is whether he considers Ole to be still one of those forwards. Smith is defo gone. It'll either be

Saha, Rooney, Tevez, Ole,
OR
Saha, Rooney, Tevez, Rossi, Ole(if he's fit)

I hope it's the latter, I really think Rossi deserves his chance.

LOL...Fletcher and Park in your line up...are you serious You dont think we went out and paid fortunes this summer for top class MF's for the likes of those lads to be even considered for a place in the team :eek: Fletcher is genuine, hes not good enough. End of.

Park had his moments and scored a few important league goals over his time but I would fully expect Nani & Anderson to be on another level to him.

meathman 007

yea aparantely its true - 2 year loan deal with an option to extend it by 3 years and buy him permanantely - great deal for utd - we cant lose really. Sky are saying west ham never owned tevez and the dodgy bloke kia owns him....

Mitch Connor

meathman 007 wrote:

yea aparantely its true - 2 year loan deal with an option to extend it by 3 years and buy him permanantely - great deal for utd - we cant lose really. Sky are saying west ham never owned tevez and the dodgy bloke kia owns him....

which if proven to be true puts West Ham and the Premierleague in a lot of bother.

meathman 007

i couldnt care less about west ham or the premier league - as long as we get him on a clean deal, i am happy....

Tauren

Tauren wrote:

which if proven to be true puts West Ham and the Premierleague in a lot of bother.

This could cause the sh1t to hit the fan...

LegacyUser

Done deal, the only way it can't be done is if somehow Tevez breaks his leg and fails the medical...

Absolutely Awesome news. Jesus Christ, what a squad...

mcgrailg

really looking forwrd to the season now

The Muppet

cheesedude wrote:

Done deal, the only way it can't be done is if somehow Tevez breaks his leg and fails the medical...

Absolutely Awesome news. Jesus Christ, what a squad...

Apparently he already had his medical so that he can join up with United on their pre season tour as soon a s he is finished with the copa America.

LegacyUser

Predicted starting 11 for the Charity Shield against Chelsea

Van De Sar


Evra

---

Vidic

---

Ferdinand

---

G.Neville

---

Hargreaves

---

Scholes

---

---

Giggs

---

Ronaldo

---

---

Rooney

---

---

Tevez

---

meathman 007

meathman 007 wrote:

i couldnt care less about west ham or the premier league - as long as we get him on a clean deal, i am happy....

Nor I.


I actually said many times I think Tevez is too similar to Rooney. I watched him last night and I stand by that BUT he is a sensational player and while Id prefer a poacher like an Eto'o (dream on) I will also say thta Id prefer Tevez to some of the names we were linked with in recent weeks (Anelka)

The Rooster

Deleted User wrote:

Agrees. The PL are a disgrace. Just like Ferdinands 8 month ban for missing a test (when guys got 3-4 month bans for FAILING a test) the PL are jumpin all over United tryin to exert a display of power and control. Incompetant twats.

Thats hilarious


A great deal for ManU if Tevez goes through. £3m a year to Kia, £5m a year to Tevez, with an option to extend or buy at the end of 2 years - sounds good. I'm a bit surprised Benitez didnt go after him along with Torres.

The danger now is the Premier League do something. I'm not positive, but I think there's a big difference between Mascho and Tevez. Up to Christmas there were both effectively on loan at West Ham (illegaly). The loan deal with Mashco ended and a new legal loan deal began with Liverpool where West Ham were taken totally out of the loop.
But then West Ham said they effectively bought Tevez and tore up the side letter with Kia that said he had rights over him. So unlike the Liverpool deal, the paperwork involving Tevez going to ManU has to involve West Ham (even though everyone outside the PL itself knows that West Ham don't own him).

meathman 007

just imagine our bench for that game:

Anderson, Nani, Rossi, Carrick, Pique, Brown

Injuries: Foster, Saha, Park

Most likely sold: Smith, Richardson, eagles, bardsley etc

The Muppet

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=475502&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=2&title=Tevez+to+seal+United+loan

The Rooster

Sizzler wrote:

LOL...Fletcher and Park in your line up...are you serious You dont think we went out and paid fortunes this summer for top class MF's for the likes of those lads to be even considered for a place in the team :eek: Fletcher is genuine, hes not good enough. End of.

Park had his moments and scored a few important league goals over his time but I would fully expect Nani & Anderson to be on another level to him.

How many league games do you think Nani and Anderson will start this season? Did you see Nani playing for Portugal youths a couple of weeks ago?

The Muppet

The Rooster wrote:

The danger now is the Premier League do something. I'm not positive, but I think there's a big difference between Mascho and Tevez. Up to Christmas there were both effectively on loan at West Ham (illegaly). The loan deal with Mashco ended and a new legal loan deal began with Liverpool where West Ham were taken totally out of the loop.
But then West Ham said they effectively bought Tevez and tore up the side letter with Kia that said he had rights over him. So unlike the Liverpool deal, the paperwork involving Tevez going to ManU has to involve West Ham (even though everyone outside the PL itself knows that West Ham don't own him).

I alweays found West Hams comments about tearing up the contract amusing to say the least. Escaping from contracts or legally binding agreements is not that easy.


Whatever shennaigans went on when he joined West Ham is between them and the FA, You can be sure that Uniteds Legal team have been very cautious with this deal.

Roll on the new season.

Oh man, who am i gonna get on my jersey now!!!

RasTa

The Rooster wrote:

How many league games do you think Nani and Anderson will start this season? Did you see Nani playing for Portugal youths a couple of weeks ago?

Aye it will take Nani and Anderson at least a season to get settled. I fully expect park to start at least 15 games this season, he is a great squad player and brings a lot to us when he starts.

LegacyUser

Anderson will establish himself quicker than Nani I reckon...and Nani could come in just as quick if he is lucky and applies himself...Nani is not all about tricks like Ronaldo, he reminds me more of Robben so I think he could adjust quicker than Ronaldo did.

Anderson is the player I am really excited about, he looks class. Absolutely quality.

cheesedude

cheesedude wrote:

Anderson is the player I am really excited about, he looks class. Absolutely quality.

As long as he plays far up the pitch Im happy. Loads of skill and strength BUT he doesnt do a tap of work in terms of trackin back and we already have Ronaldo doin that!!

LegacyUser

He ain't designed to do that...That's what Mourinho does...that's why I hate Chelsea, he does not encourage good watchable football, effective football? Highly effective but **** to watch and **** for the Wingers and skillful players.

I want Anderson to cause Riot as far up as possible with Ronaldo/Rooney/Teves/Nani whoever causing riot too...and if they have enough energy to track back, then go ahead but don't break your balls Anderson...:)

Sizzler

The Rooster wrote:

How many league games do you think Nani and Anderson will start this season? Did you see Nani playing for Portugal youths a couple of weeks ago?

The same was said when Ronaldo came He played a lot more games than Fergie planned in his 1st season thats for sure. If he settles and does well he plays, simple as that.

cheesedude

cheesedude wrote:

He ain't designed to do that...That's what Mourinho does...that's why I hate Chelsea, he does not encourage good watchable football, effective football? Highly effective but **** to watch and **** for the Wingers and skillful players.

I want Anderson to cause Riot as far up as possible with Ronaldo/Rooney/Teves/Nani whoever causing riot too...and if they have enough energy to track back, then go ahead but don't break your balls Anderson...:)

Im fine with him not trackin back BUT if he's gonna play central midfield in place of Scholesy then we'll be under pressure at the back.




Im very proud of the way United play. Imo they're the best footballing team in England even ahead of Arsenal, its great to see winning team playing stylish football and scoring freely especially in the age of the 4-5-1 low scoring Premiership. Liverpool and Chelsea fans can say what they want (and they do try) but they cant take that away from us.

LegacyUser

Absolutely he will...i'm so excited, the options we have are fantastic...

I do truly believe Anderson will establish quicker than Nani...

Don't forget, Anderson plays on that left forward wing where Ronaldinho famously made his own for Barcelona and Brazil...Very exciting.

The Rooster

Sizzler wrote:

The same was said when Ronaldo came He played a lot more games than Fergie planned in his 1st season thats for sure. If he settles and does well he plays, simple as that.

Very good.....I didnt realise Nani was as good as Ronaldo. Shock in store so.

Headshot

cheesedude wrote:

Predicted starting 11 for the Charity Shield against Chelsea

Van De Sar


Evra

---

Vidic

---

Ferdinand

---

G.Neville

---

Hargreaves

---

Scholes

---

---

Giggs

---

Ronaldo

---

---

Rooney

---

---

Tevez

---

thats some team

a team to be very scared off

and great subs to bring on

i cant wait for the new season

Fergie has done it again

i dont think he'll be playing Ronney anymore on the wings

LegacyUser

I wouldn't be so sure...

Anderson can play in the Ronaldinho Role on the left or behind the strikers, Tevez can play there too I imagine as well as Rooney.

I have a feeling they will all be interchanging constantly in games to confuse everyone...

The Rooster

cheesedude wrote:

I have a feeling they will all be interchanging constantly in games to confuse everyone...

Thats going to be the potential bananaskin for ManU. In my opinion, they had a poorish league season (for recent ManU teams) in 05/06 because it took too long (practically the whole season) for Ferguson to work out his best team and best formation. Of course there has to be some experimentation at the beginning of the season and there will be some poor performances because of it by all the top teams - the key will be to keep grinding out the results when you don't play well, like United did last year and Chelsea did the previous year.

zing

West Ham digging their heals in on Tevez - they hold his registration so within their rights here. Wonder would they take a nice tidy pay off though ?

http://www.whufc.com/articles/article.php?page_id=9272
http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?HLID=475577&CPID=8&title=Tevez's+United+move+in+turmoil&lid=&channel=Premiership&f=rss&clid=21

evad_lhorg

pscch we let them stay up the ****.

God damned biscuit man. Its in his best interest to stfu about all of this, the last thing they need is another lawsuit arising from illegal ownership of his registration!

Thanx 4 The Fish

They have not got illegal ownership of their registration, the premier league has ruled and found that they now are entitled to the player. How do you think it is in his best interest to let go of a top player that they could do with this season just so that Man U can have him, some people :rolleyes:

Thanx 4 The Fish

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

They have not got illegal ownership of their registration, the premier league has ruled and found that they now are entitled to the player. How do you think it is in his best interest to let go of a top player that they could do with this season just so that Man U can have him, some people :rolleyes:

They tore up an agreement with MSI and now they own him??? This is the real world u cant just take a 20-30 m asset as your own without paying a fee. The saga to avoid relegation was very shady and the FA screwed themselves by not docking points.

Rikand

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6276064.stm

United agree personal terms with Tevez




Sorry if i missed a link to this somewhere else, not sure how recent it is

daveg

Heard on the news all day 2 year loan deal agreed with Tevez.

Little-Devil

I bit suprised at how much Manu have splashed out this summer if you include the signing of Carlos Tevez. I still have to make my mind up on, didn't see enough of him last season, i think maybe there is to much hype around. I know he was voted player of the season in Argentina, just have to wait and see. I just can't see how his style will fit in at Manu.

Roll on the Charity Shield

syngindub

Why do we always here the same bull**** from the club that is selling the player. Every transfer is pretty much the same. The player always comes out saying he is happy with the current club. His club deny any transfer speculation. The contract is under scrutiny and they always end up leaving. I know there are a few exceptions but it always seems this way especially when united are involved. Happy all the same that we are getting tevez. I reckon that could be it now or are there any more players on the way?

I thought fergie might get rid of some of the dead wood though.
fletcher has had his chance to shine and is just an average player.
The same goes for wes brown, seems to me like a liability. If you take the games he's played in you'll see the goals we have conceded.

syngin..

zing

Deleted User wrote:

They tore up an agreement with MSI and now they own him??? This is the real world u cant just take a 20-30 m asset as your own without paying a fee. The saga to avoid relegation was very shady and the FA screwed themselves by not docking points.

He didn't say they owned him - he said they owned his registration which I believe is correct (he presumably wouldn't have been able to continue playing for them otherwise). Yes they supposedly did tear up the original agreement which had references to third parties but the player did sign a legally binding contract with them and they now solely own his registration (or so one is led to believe for the FA to be happy with the current state of play with his registration).

Now there probably are all sorts of escape routes in that contract but that's another story.

Anyway Joorabchian has since made a statement saying West Ham were aware he was talking to other clubs and that it's all above board and all the i's will be dotted & t's crossed, etc..

I can fully understand why any club would want to sign him but I wouldn't have thought he was the type of player Utd need (being quite similar to Rooney). A great acquisition regardless

zing

zing wrote:

He didn't say they owned him - he said they owned his registration which I believe is correct (he presumably wouldn't have been able to continue playing for them otherwise). Yes they supposedly did tear up the original agreement which had references to third parties but the player did sign a legally binding contract with them and they now solely own his registration (or so one is led to believe for the FA to be happy with the current state of play with his registration).

Now there probably are all sorts of escape routes in that contract but that's another story.

Anyway Joorabchian has since made a statement saying West Ham were aware he was talking to other clubs and that it's all above board and all the i's will be dotted & t's crossed, etc..

I can fully understand why any club would want to sign him but I wouldn't have thought he was the type of player Utd need (being quite similar to Rooney). A great acquisition regardless

I stand corrected so. I thought they were implying full ownership.


I agree bout the similarities to Rooney, been sayin that here for a while. However I also said that if we were gonna get someone top top quality such as Eto'o (dream on) that id rather Tevez than some of the names mentioned like Anelka.


http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=475582&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=4161&title=Tevez+'agrees'+United+deal

Funny how quickly this whole thing is moving. Why would the biscuit man put out a statement this afternoon if he knew negotiations were underway? Seems very contradictory.

Nalced_irl

Little-Devil wrote:

I bit suprised at how much Manu have splashed out this summer if you include the signing of Carlos Tevez. I still have to make my mind up on, didn't see enough of him last season, i think maybe there is to much hype around. I know he was voted player of the season in Argentina, just have to wait and see. I just can't see how his style will fit in at Manu.

Roll on the Charity Shield

My mates were over in Argie for the world cup and they say everyone there was raving about Tevez and this is obviously before he came to the Premiership. Id say no matter what he does on the pitch, he will make alot of cash in jersey sales ect. As for on the pitch tho, it all depends on how he fits in. You see it time after time that a big player joins a new squad who simply doesnt suit him and the other way around also. I think he could be a great signing but i would also reserve judgement to an extent.

zing

Deleted User wrote:

Funny how quickly this whole thing is moving. Why would the biscuit man put out a statement this afternoon if he knew negotiations were underway? Seems very contradictory.

To try and keep the fans happy maybe and almost certainly to try squeeze a few quid from the deal.

Little-Devil

According to Parma, Manu have agreed to sell Rossi and they are made a bit are waiting for it to be accepted. I'm actually quite suprised if they do decide to sell, regardless if they sign Tevez, i think he has done enough and proved that he should be give at chance this season. As much as i like smith, i think it would make more sense to sell if they had to make a choice.

Once Tevez signs, Fletcher, Richardson and Heinze will all be sold, maybe Brown and O'shea as well?