[video] The Case for Physically Separated Bike Lanes

replytohere2004

http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/physically-separated-bike-lanes/

Superb film. Will it happen in Ireland? They'd build a road through Newgrange before doing something like this.






found via Reddit:
http://reddit.com/info/1rx05/comments

also:
Bicycles beat subway as fastest mode of travel in New York City

cyclopath2001

While separated bicycle lanes would be very nice to have, there is a risk that cyclists would end up with 'separate but equal' status, something which didn't work out very well in practice for non-white Americans.

It's clear that the powers-that-be have no interest in reallocating space away from motorists, Ireland's absurd 'shared-use' car/cycle lanes are evidence of this.

The motorist lobby uses the concept of separated cycle lanes as a defense against having to modify their own behaviour.

Victor

They aren't a "one size fits all" solution. As one of the interviewees mentions there are 10 different types of track / lane in the London manual. I would certainly like to see the heavier / greater separation available on busy roads that are 80km/h or faster. For urban centres, I see the barriers as something to keep the cars out. I see the solution as providing as "separate, but equal" for cars, not the other way around.

pan

I'd like the barriers to be made of trees as apposed to bollard type barriers, as one of the guys mentions in the video.

Nice idea overall.

Chips Lovell

I'm not a big fan of separate cycle lanes. In Dublin at least, they're usually dumped on top of footpaths, or alongside them. That means you have plenty of punters walking along the cycle lane and more broken glass etc.

Lucas10101

I hate separate Cycling Lanes....accidents have occurred on them as well.

blorg

Sure, they are certainly not a catch all although in fairness many of the ones in the video did look good. Segregated lanes can work well where you have very long segments without junctions. They don't work at all if interrupted constantly with junctions with it difficult to re-merge. Decent examples I can think of in Dublin would include Clontarf-Sutton and the Stillorgan Road from Cherrywood to Foxrock (after which it succumbs to drivewayitis.) - these lanes do however need better seperation from pedestrians.

I did note that one of the lanes they showed in London (at 1:51) was of the simple "slapped on the footpath" type and the cyclists are actually all on the road, not using it at all. It's really quite easy to tell at the planning stage whether a lane will be used or not.

avalanche

true, in ireland they do seem to be dumped on top of footpaths and are covered in glass but that still has to be better than being hit by a truck, bus or car. the cycle lanes in amsterdam work really well. it just make so much sense and dublin for one is a perfect city to get around by bike. if only some politican had the balls to put some money and effort into it, the quality of life would be increased and the traffic problems would be alleviated slightly. unfortunately though the city centre streets are just to narrow for modern traffic. i would suggest that all traffic be banned from the city centre after a give time and that more public transport systems such as the luas would transport people to the city centre from large, secure carparks located on the peripheries. something like this could be light years away though

milod

Cycle lanes as a concept are a good idea, but I'd agree with Victor's point about the 'separate but equal' issue. We might end up giving motorists the ideal excuse to continue boorish behaviour on the road because they feel cyclists should be somewhere else.

I avoid certain cycle lanes around the city due mainly to broken glass and idiotic pedestrians who use the cycle lane to pass slow walking traffic. Depending on your speed, it's often easier to occupy space in traffic thus avoiding the classic bike hazards like left turn cut-ups, swinging taxi-doors, pedestrians jumping into the cycle lane etc.

I reckon the solution depends on the type and speed of traffic, the type of cyclist, and the location, city centre, urban, rural etc. I would hate to see bike lanes become mandatory though - only yesterday I was honked between Chapelizod and Islandbridge - the driver made theatrical gestures pointing me toward the undulating, glass strewn, cycle lane on the path which is generally clogged with joggers.

The last thing we need is to give motorists another excuse to demote our status.

rubadub

blorg wrote:

Stillorgan Road from Cherrywood to Foxrock (after which it succumbs to drivewayitis.) - these lanes do however need better seperation from pedestrians.

I have had far more close calls due to pedestrians than cars and would see more advantage in pedestrian separation than cars. Even on that stretch they have tried to do this, the bus shelter has a trail of rubble going behind it now and a barrier on the other side of the bus shelter so stop bikes being able to pass in front of hte shelter. It also is supposed to stop people waiting for the bus wandering onto the trail of red rubble. However people stand behind the bus shelter and use the barrier as an resting spot while standing on the "cycle track".

If we simply painted icons of bicycle on the actual footpaths it might help, since pedestrians show a strong attraction for walking on such paths, while ignoring ones without pretty symbols.

There was a new challenge on the white cross- foxrock assault course yesterday. When you came down to the 2 poles with the 2ft gap between them some clever person had put up an election poster so now you had to duck as well as weave between the poles. (I ripped it down)

Marathon Man

avalanche wrote:

true, in ireland they do seem to be dumped on top of footpaths and are covered in glass but that still has to be better than being hit by a truck, bus or car. the cycle lanes in amsterdam work really well. it just make so much sense and dublin for one is a perfect city to get around by bike. if only some politican had the balls to put some money and effort into it, the quality of life would be increased and the traffic problems would be alleviated slightly. unfortunately though the city centre streets are just to narrow for modern traffic. i would suggest that all traffic be banned from the city centre after a give time and that more public transport systems such as the luas would transport people to the city centre from large, secure carparks located on the peripheries. something like this could be light years away though

You talk a lot of sense and i have been thinking along these same lines for a long time. But sense and political will rarely go together. We could create an almost utopian city centre with a unique selling point for tourism and hence more money into the country. A lot more people would cycle if they felt they were safe. As we know cycling in town is a war one which cyclists can never win against giant steel boxes. Something must be done. Remember this on thursday.

blorg

rubadub wrote:

I have had far more close calls due to pedestrians than cars and would see more advantage in pedestrian separation than cars. Even on that stretch they have tried to do this, the bus shelter has a trail of rubble going behind it now and a barrier on the other side of the bus shelter so stop bikes being able to pass in front of hte shelter.

Sure, I completely agree with you on the unusability of the cycle lanes between Foxrock and White's Cross. However before that, specifically along the section between Cherrywood and Cornelscourt, there simply isn't a lot of pedestrian traffic and pedestrians are not a major problem. So here we have busy and fast moving dual carriageway car traffic, low pedestrian traffic, and relatively few junctions (minor junctions which exist actually have signs indicating cyclist priority, amazing or what.) This is one of the very few situations in which I think an off-road cycle lane can actually work. After Cherrywood on the way in to town the cycle path is also on a different level to the footpath, further distinguishing it, which I do think is essential.

It's not all perfect by any means, I don't use the wrong-side of the road path before Cherrywood if going into town and am annoyed by the rumble strips going up the hill to Loughlinstown hospital roundabout. But there is a small bit that works and lessons should be drawn from it!

alantc

The video's not loading for me but when I was in Barcelona they had onroad bike lanes separated by big metal bumps along the division. It looked like a good idea, though expensive.

The bike lane on the Clontarf seafront is separate from the road and great when people don't walk along it, but people seem to prefer it than the footpath 2ft away, or the 40 feet of grass on the other side (with another foot path). I shout at people when they push buggies and have kids in it.