Green party

sidneyreilly

thelurcher wrote:

The bastards are in :mad:
Doubt the party members will vote against it today.

Frying pan and fire spring to mind:(

Banjax

God how I loathe that party, I fear for the future.

E@gle.

In my opinio 1 man i licensce, less paperwork less hassel for guards and everyone is happy this way

jaycee

Be careful what you wish for ....:rolleyes:

Banjax

They gave them the department of the environment of course, where they'll have the most opportunity to try and ban hunting.

Sometimes I just detest the proportional representation system.

maglite

let them try

BryanL

one man one licence..............but no shooting allowed!!!

i think this really will bring things to a head

CJhaughey

Well Mr McGurk had the newly elected Green TD for Carlow/Kilkenny on just a moment ago, He asked "would she be against Country sports"? and she replied that she was a keen fisherwomen and a keen shot.
I detect a note of irrational panic here, with regard to the Green party in Govt, Am I alone?

Vegeta

CJhaughey wrote:

I detect a note of irrational panic here, with regard to the Green party in Govt, Am I alone?

Well on their website it is part of their manifesto to ban all blood sports. Now this doesn't mean that they will actually ban all blood sports but I'd rather be ready for it than be caught napping if they do try it.

Clare gunner

She must be the Rebel Green if she does all that.Somwhat like that labour MP who is pro fieldsports[another woman:o .Truth be said I cant see them going in for that hot potato as they are a minority party in govt.Be a different story if they were a majority govt in power.

Sparks

I don't think she's that much of a rebel CG, though if it's the same one I'm thinking of, she's one of the few who replied to the pre-election questionaire and she seemed fairly pro-shooting sports.

I think the thing here is the confusion between hunting animals with rifles for the pot or for vermin control, and the term "blood sports" (which, in my head at least, does not mean stalking deer or shooting foxes).

civdef

How about shooting pheasants?

Hendrix89

Okay I would like ask to those who support fox hunting to take a look at the gruesome pictures (thats a warning) on this link. As you see that is whats left of a poor fox after being torn to shreds alive. Would you be okay with dieing that way? It always shocks me that there are 'Irish' people who are for it. Shocks me more to think what kind of people they are....

http://www.banfoxhuntingcrueltyireland.com/cruilty.htm

civdef

Oops, off topic, one warning only.

sidneyreilly

Sparks wrote:

I think the thing here is the confusion between hunting animals with rifles for the pot or for vermin control, and the term "blood sports" (which, in my head at least, does not mean stalking deer or shooting foxes).

I agree Sparks. Thing is though, is it not the thin end of the wedge? At which stage in the pecking order does hunting with firearms be declared the same?

BryanL

hendrix when you walk down the meat isle in a super market thats all thats left of the cow,whats happens after your dead isn't really a big deal is it?
the manner of how an animal dies it what concerns most people in shooting or hunting.the expert evidence given to the english parliment by people against hunting were of the opinion that an animal shot took 3 milli seconds to die but with hounds it could take 80 milli seconds.

Sparks you are way off the mark for my money,Bloodsports to me is a spin.
Hunting,shooting and fishing were the only sports everything else were called games and passtimes!
but the anti's spun it.they are now calling hunting baiting in all their letters to the papers, a new spin.

for many years people in hunting said "oh they are only against coursing" but muzzling changed that.now their big focus is staghunting in Ireland and they are trying to split that from the pack.they win one step at a time.

I will bet you any money there will be a letter in at least one Irish national paper on the 11-12th of August against shooting and the week before the pheasant season starts.
the handgun shooters in England sat apart from everyone and were easily snipped off.
if you see no relation between the outdoor pursuit of animals and shooting you are very wrong.
Bryan

Banjax

The post by Hendrix is fairly typical of the kind of propaganda used by people like PETA, ICABS, LACS et al.

The next step is start comparing us to murderers and paedophiles. No it's not an exaggeration, it's actually a system they use.

Whatever you may feel about hunting with dogs (fox hunting, coursing etc) the fact is that if it is banned then shooting game/vermin is next. One only has to to look to the UK to see that this is the case.

This is on topic, as the new minister for the environment is a signed-up anti and therefore poses a significant risk to our sports.

Sparks

And to add to all that, I want to point out that we actually got a fair bit of help from the Greens over the last few years with parlimentary questions and the like. It's not the firearms they object to.

Vegeta

Your views dissapoint me Sparks.

I know as someone who only casually shoots targets that if the governement tried to ban all ranges I'd be standing there beside you guys

But if hunting was to get the chop you guys would just stand on the side lines and watch us burn.

Nice

fits

I used to be a little bit squeamish about hunting with hounds/dogs even though I've followed hunts on horseback (I never saw a kill mainly because there never was a kill). Since I've owned lurchers, I really dont see the big deal. The lurchers are pets, but they do occasionally catch something without my intending them to, and the death is so quick...
All of my doubts are gone.

The blood sports activists are so off the mark about real cruelty in my opinion. I wish they'd target intensive farming and overbreeding of dogs/puppy farms, also things like the use of snares. Thats real, prolonged cruelty. The foxes have a great time!
Anyway, Mary White is from my home constituency. Shes a hard working and genuine politician, but if she, or the Greens touch hunting, she wont be reelected in Carlow Kilkenny, thats for sure.... and I think (or hope anyway) they're wise enough to leave it alone.

Clare gunner

Sorry Hendrix& Co. Scribbling over your photos titles from " fox den stopped" to Badger Sett. Really isnt very convincing or giving your arguement much credit. Nor does a pic of a fox running with it's tounge out prove avery much.Dogs do that all the time.
Sparks,
Fine if you dont like hunting,and no one is expecting you to be down at the local hunt meet keeping the spikey haired mutants at bay.Thing is;the antis work on the domino theory,knock one,the rest can be knocked.Dont be fooled that they think ISSF or air rifle shooting is sacrosanct.It is the fact that it uses GUNS!!! air gun or 50 Cal,is irrevelant to these people.
You saw the ****e letters that came up after the virginia tech shooting by the same prolific scribblers that rant on about hunting here? these type of people are fustrated narrowminded social engineers that see everyone who is involved with guns of any type of meat eating is the anti christ. Blood sports to them means anything that has blood spilt.So shooting and vermin control will rate in there as well.
So I wouldnt even debate,or try to compromise, with this lot,just do everything in my power to make life difficult for them.I personally dont hunt to hounds or course,but I will certainly make sure that those groups are supported any way I can.It is better to fight a war on somone elses property than in your own front doorstep.

LATER

Was just over on the ICABS website,their latest letter writing campain is to Haribo sweets ,to take a picture of a Matador off the sweet package,as it might give children ideas that bullfighting is OK.!!! Or call RTE topull a prize of running the Bulls in Pamplona in Spain.[Would have thought the Bulls will have a good chance of doing in a good few humans there to even up the score].
BW Did you know according to ICABS that "cows"get injured in the "bull" run???
Now,if you are dealing with THAT kind of misinformation,fanatism,and general ignorance .
Would you trust those kind of people stopping at a certain type of sport???

johngalway

Same dissappointing arguments are resurfacing yet again here. I'm alright bud pity about you though. That mentality will see an end to EVERYONE here, eventually.

Personally I think foxhunting using horses and hounds is silly, I think target shooting is a waste of powder and lead, using dogs mostly isn't my cup of tea, game shooting contains more knobs than a packet of hob nobs but do you know something?

I'm not going to ever be against or advise others to be against them. Infact I'll defend the right of others to do these things.

Why?

As has been said, once one goes the others will start to go. Don't believe me? Look over in the UK. Ban on foxhunting, snares being talked about in Scotland, also not being allowed to use telescopic sights on certain quarry.

This isn't fantasy folks. Time to get our collective acts in order.

I don't fear the Greens near as much as my fellow sports peoples selfishness.

United we stand, devided we fall.

Clare gunner

Well Said John!!!!:d :d

.243

great photos of all those dead foxes "being ripped apart" by those savage hounds,so savage yet so camera shy they all got out of the way for the "camera shot"

Sparks

Veg, CG, john, can any of you tell me of a single instance where the hare coursing or hunting-with-hounds bodies have pushed for something used or useful to target shooting?

And can you say where exactly in my post I advocated "turning on" anyone? What I said was that I don't hunt with firearms myself because of personal reasons and I don't personally support coursing or hunting with hounds. I'd like to know exactly when three things happened please - (1) When did not supporting become actively working against something, (2) When did the coursing/hounding people start to support target shooting, and (3) When did I lose the right to have an opinion of my own?

Clare gunner

Sparks
3] You never did and is respected.
2]Maybe not target shooting,but shooting as in game ,yes. Guess you can guess from our deleted guests posts that anything involving guns is fair game to them.
1] Would you rather fight anti gun nuts away on some other issue far removed from target shooting,or on your front door?

Vegeta

Sparks wrote:

Veg, CG, john, can any of you tell me of a single instance where the hare coursing or hunting-with-hounds bodies have pushed for something used or useful to target shooting?

Never said they promoted target shooting, there is a huge huge difference between promoting a sport and standing by it in times of pressure. No one is asking you to promote anything.

And can you say where exactly in my post I advocated "turning on" anyone? What I said was that I don't hunt with firearms myself because of personal reasons and I don't personally support coursing or hunting with hounds. I'd like to know exactly when three things happened please - (1) When did not supporting become actively working against something, (2) When did the coursing/hounding people start to support target shooting, and (3) When did I lose the right to have an opinion of my own?

Quote me where i used the phrase "turning on"

(1)Never used those phrases Sparks and you know it, I said you'd stand by and just let it happen.

(2) Never, but you can bet your arse that if somebody tried to ban firearms for target useage we'd be shouting just as loud as you guys

(3) you are perfectly entitled to your opinion but it dissapoints me. If they banned hunting with firearms there would be a lot less shooters making the shooting community weaker as a whole. All it would take is one taget shooter acting the prat and they'd come after you. Would you like if the hunters stood up and said "I disagree with target shooting, its just gives potential nutters a chance to become better at killing.Lets leave thm fight their own corner"

Agree with CG keep the fight away from your own door step

johngalway

Sparks wrote:

Veg, CG, john, can any of you tell me of a single instance where the hare coursing or hunting-with-hounds bodies have pushed for something used or useful to target shooting?

To reply to your first paragraph, I can't as I'm not a member of either and do not partake. My point, which I believe has been missed, is that infighting here only weakens us all.

Sparks wrote:

And can you say where exactly in my post I advocated "turning on" anyone?

Nope, cos I never once mentioned or referred to you or your post in my own post However, in this thread a person has mentioned that certain people would be of more use going after things like snaring. I use rifle, shotgun, snare and live cage traps against foxes.

Sparks wrote:

What I said was that I don't hunt with firearms myself because of personal reasons and I don't personally support coursing or hunting with hounds.

I haven't got a problem with any of that. I'm not involved in or go to either of those activities. However, my point is take the anit's for example, they ALL jump on the particular bandwagon of the day. That makes them look bigger than they are. While we sit here worrying what's going to happen next. When it does happen a lot let out a sigh of relief and go about their own business while others are left to swing in the wind. That's wrong and stupid, we contribute to our own demise by being unhelpful to other sportsmen, whether we agree with them or not.

Sparks wrote:

I'd like to know exactly when three things happened please - (1) When did not supporting become actively working against something, (2) When did the coursing/hounding people start to support target shooting, and (3) When did I lose the right to have an opinion of my own?

1. It's over dramatic but illustrates a point; All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke. We're not that many, and full of super ego's, we need all the help we can get.

2. Again, no idea.

3. I didn't get any memo/PM on that but I hope you find it again soon.

You seem to have picked out my thread as being against you personally when it was about us all. When I have a problem with you or anyone else Sparks I say so, like on Pistas ferret thread way back, when I don't I don't mention names.

Banjax

I get the impression that if hunting were to be put at immediate risk, then "Sparks" would not be one for protesting about it.

That's regrettable, from my point of view, as like many here I would be out on the street defending paper punching if that were to be in danger, even though I am not a target shooter.

But it's fair enough, and indeed it will be fair enough when all other pastimes involving guns are banned except paper-punching, won't it?.

Sparks

I have to say lads, you're not reading what I'm writing. I'm not against hunting with firearms, I just don't want to do it myself. That doesn't mean I want it banned, nor does it mean I wouldn't defend it; it means I'm not against hunting with firearms and I don't want to do it myself.

Hunting using animals is - to me - just a lesser solution to a vermin control problem. Takes longer, takes more effort, looks messier, leaves the meat and pelts in a somewhat lesser condition, can damage crops (when you're talking about big formal hunts) and is in general less efficient.

Snares and the like are downright cruel unless they're rigged right and even then they're not exactly discriminating.

None of that means that I disagree with vermin control. It is to meat/dairy/poultry farming what weeding is to gardening, nothing more, nothing less. I just think it's a job that firearms are much better at, and I've yet to hear an argument as to why animals - or traps - are better at the job than firearms are.

And absolutely none of that means I happen to agree with ICABS or the Hunt Sabs (because frankly, they're a damn sight worse than even the problem they lovingly describe in very uneducated terms showing that you really are defined by what you oppose most strongly); nor does it mean I agree with IANSA or similar groups; nor does it mean that I'll be sitting back in my armchair sipping a brandy with a copy of the Financial Times in my slippers with a good pipe and thinking "gosh, this is a rather super state of affairs, what?" while you're all flayed alive by the press for daring to look sideways at a magpie.

Seriously lads, cop on. If you want to flay someone over differing opinions, as opposed to actual actions, you're going to find that there's noone else standing anywhere near you in pretty short order.