Green party

CJhaughey

Sparks wrote:

I'll be sitting back in my armchair sipping a brandy with a copy of the Financial Times in my slippers with a good pipe and thinking "gosh, this is a rather super state of affairs, what?" while you're all flayed alive by the press for daring to look sideways at a magpie.

LOL! classic mental picture there Sparks!

Lads, if ye were dogs you would be snapping at each other instead of straining at the leash looking for prey.

BryanL

i think it's a lot more laid back chatting than can come across on message boards.
Sparks is getting a taste of hunting with these trolls soon he'll be getting a troll hound for around the house.
Bryan;)

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

I have to say lads, you're not reading what I'm writing. I'm not against hunting with firearms, I just don't want to do it myself. That doesn't mean I want it banned, nor does it mean I wouldn't defend it; it means I'm not against hunting with firearms and I don't want to do it myself.

Sparks,I think everyone understands your personal opinion and respects it on this point.

Hunting using animals is - to me - just a lesser solution to a vermin control problem. Takes longer, takes more effort, looks messier, leaves the meat and pelts in a somewhat lesser condition, can damage crops (when you're talking about big formal hunts) and is in general less efficient.

Well, first off I think we need to define everything here properly. Hunting by this we should mean hunting with hounds.Ie fox hunting,not deer hunting,with rifles.Shooting ,self explanatory. Using the generic term hunting means you could be argueing for both hunting with hounds and shooting game.
Hunting is generally an Autumn /Winter pursuit.So by then contray to most antis the crops are already in.Agree it is less efficent.,and I frankly am amazed that they do ever manage to catch a fox! But it is somone elses way of life.And they are being attacked by the same mob that wants to ban my way of life!So the enemy of my enemy is my friend.That doesnt mean that you agree 100% with everything or need to be out there with them,but it doesnt hurt to "support" them either.Now support can be anything you want it to be.

Snares and the like are downright cruel unless they're rigged right and even then they're not exactly discriminating.

Agreed 100% BUT wether thru ignorance of better methods or by law there is no other methods of trapping legal here.You cant use deadfalls,nor large pull traps.[The old style Gin trap,without the pressure plate.It has a wire between posts that when pulled releases the jaws to catch the animal in the neck/spine area.Instant death.] So what can one do?

and I've yet to hear an argument as to why animals - or traps - are better at the job than firearms are.

Traps,etc are useful in the sense that they "work" 24/7 in the field .While we cant.You check them once a day for prey. A properly set trap could produce more hits than you could by sitting there for a week with a gun.


;

nor does it mean that I'll be sitting back in my armchair sipping a brandy with a copy of the Financial Times in my slippers with a good pipe and thinking "gosh, this is a rather super state of affairs, what?" while you're all flayed alive by the press for daring to look sideways at a magpie.

Gosh No! It is THE FIELD you should be taking there old boy! FT is for those grubby people who work in the City and make their money!:D

I think THATS what most people want to hear in your last sentence. You are not going to partake,but you wont stand idly by while shooting is being attacked??

Banjax

Well perhaps I was baiting Sparks a little, but I'm sure he knew it and from what I've read elsewhere on this board he's more than able for it.

In hindsight it's a bit too much like troll behaviour, so 10 points from Gryffindor for my last post.

That said, the threat we are facing, maybe not today or tomorrow, is a very real one and can only be fought with numbers. Legislation such as that which would have to be implemented to curtail or ban hunting would be largely based on the amount of people who were for it, or against it.

By that I mean that anti-hunting legislation is not a cut and dried "right or wrong" matter, or a tiresome series of redefining and modernising. That is the type of legislation that goes on all the time without anyone noticing.

But I do believe that all shooting sports are linked to sports like hunting, either through direct lineage or indirect relation. Paper punching was once nothing more than the proving ground for hunting rifle accuracy, before it developed into a bona fide sport in it's own right.

Likewise, the arguments for banning one sport can and do mutate into reasons for banning others.
Only by supporting each other can we protect all our sports form those who, essentially, wish to control every aspect of our lives.

Clare gunner

Brian,
I see mr Fitzgerald has graced you with a reply to your letter in today 's examiner.
Sounds like the paragon of reasonablness:rolleyes: .
However you might want to mention in a reply that the NI minister that banned NI hare coursing,was also a fullly paid up member and worked for the UK leauge against cruel sports.So any concerns of hers might be somwhat sullied by her belifs???
Leave it up to you to reply
Regds
CG

BryanL

yeah saw that,fairly reasonable response,didn't know that about her but will mention it and also that nothen politicians are hardly known for thier tolerance of anything.
good of him to ignore all the numbers,seems he has some confidence in Gormley to make some changes
Bryan

sidneyreilly

Any chance of posting reply so we can read it? Or please pm if inflamatory

BryanL

just to re state that the surveys carried out actually showed that the population had increased over a period of 10 years in 4 different surveys so the decision to ban hunting was taken against the evidence
Bryan

BRYAN LONG (Letters, June 18) seeks to downplay the conservation threat to the Irish hare which both the red data book on Irish flora and fauna and the Wildlife Service have identified as an endangered species.


He gives the impression that Northern Ireland Environment Minister Arlene Foster’s suspension of hunting and coursing activities was unnecessary and ill-advised.

In fact, her decision followed not only a comprehensive survey finding that hares were in sharp decline in the North, but a lengthy democratic process of consultation with every interest group, including hunt and coursing clubs.





Having carefully weighed all the evidence available relevant to the conservation status of the hare, the minister decided to grant the species complete protection. She was not discriminating against coursing or hunting — animal welfare was not the issue. Her priority was to safeguard the hare population against all threats to its survival.

Moreover, all the political parties in the North, in a rare display of unanimity, declared their enthusiastic support for the hare protection measure.

I would not suggest for a moment that bloodsport activities are the only, or even the main, threat to the Irish hare, but if we are going to protect the animal, it is surely inconceivable that groups of people would still be allowed to harass hares on a large scale and capture them for baiting.

Many hares netted for coursing die in captivity, the reason being that enclosure in small pens is utterly unnatural to them. It induces a fatal condition called stress myopathy that has killed more hares in Ireland than greyhounds or beagles ever did.

The netting of pregnant and nursing females is another downside of hare coursing from a conservation point of view. But the main threat to the hare is the impact of modern agricultural practices. Sprawling tracts of grass and cereals militate against it, as does the countrywide destruction of hedges. Once growth drops below a certain height (about 30 cm), the animal may as well be in the middle of the Sahara.

The result of a major hare survey in the Republic is due soon. I hope Environment Minister John Gormley will study this carefully and then, hopefully, see fit to wrap the Green flag around Lepus Timidus Hibernicus.

John Fitzgerald
Lr Coyne Street
Callan
Co Kilkenny

fits

Jaysus, that actually *is* a reasonable letter. I wonder was it heavily edited...
None of the other national papers give him the time of day anymore.

Whoever said that foxhunting with hounds is an ineffective method of control, you're right. Its really not the point of it....

johngalway

fits wrote:

Jaysus, that actually *is* a reasonable letter. I wonder was it heavily edited...
None of the other national papers give him the time of day anymore.

Whoever said that foxhunting with hounds is an ineffective method of control, you're right. Its really not the point of it....

He had a letter in the Indo a few days back ranting on about farmers and the introduction of those eagles in Kerry.

Clare gunner

johngalway wrote:

He had a letter in the Indo a few days back ranting on about farmers and the introduction of those eagles in Kerry.

That was John Tierney,well known hunt sab and general PITA.
Just shows these people will use any old tripe to get in the papers and to get attention to their miniscule groups.:rolleyes:

fits

hmm, I wonder what they were saying. I'm delighted myself that they've reintroduced white-tailed eagles.... I think losses to farmers shouldnt be very high, compared with stuff like loose dogs say.

johngalway

Clare gunner wrote:

That was John Tierney,well known hunt sab and general PITA.
Just shows these people will use any old tripe to get in the papers and to get attention to their miniscule groups.:rolleyes:

Oops my bad, they all look the same to me anyway

CJhaughey

fits wrote:

hmm, I wonder what they were saying. I'm delighted myself that they've reintroduced white-tailed eagles.... I think losses to farmers shouldnt be very high, compared with stuff like loose dogs say.

I saw the group of sheep farmers protesting at Kerry Airport, the day that the Eagle chicks arrived.
TBH they were just making a lot of noise and hoping to get some kind of compensation for missing lambs, in advance of any lambs being taken...
I myself think that the re-introduction of the eagles is a fabulous thing I will definately go and try and see them.

fits

CJhaughey wrote:

I myself think that the re-introduction of the eagles is a fabulous thing I will definately go and try and see them.

Me too:)

Clare gunner

fits wrote:

hmm, I wonder what they were saying. I'm delighted myself that they've reintroduced white-tailed eagles.... I think losses to farmers shouldnt be very high, compared with stuff like loose dogs say.

Oh the usual old Bollix about the farmers and hunters being money grabbing animal abusers,and that the farmers in their actions cant claim to be gaurdians of the countryside...blah,blah,blah,yada,yada,yada.:rolleyes:

Wonder how they get on then with Farmers Against foxhunting???must make for some intresting dinner conversations:D One side wants foxhunting banned,and the other side wants fox hunting and farmers banned.:rolleyes:

Truth be ,that wasnt a good move by the farmers to protest as it did sterotype them as the usual hands out for a grant/compo ,cute hoor,farmer.

fits

Clare gunner wrote:

Truth be ,that wasnt a good move by the farmers to protest as it did sterotype them as the usual hands out for a grant/compo ,cute hoor,farmer.

You're dead right, sometimes I wish they'd grow up!

johngalway

fits wrote:

You're dead right, sometimes I wish they'd grow up!

Sometimes I wish people who air comments such as the above would take a farmers lot for a week and see how they get on with it.

fits

I am from a farm, raised on a farm all my life... That doesnt make me stand up for all farmers. A bit of forward thinking would not go amiss sometimes!

fits

Oh by the way, its mostly sheep farming and my parents are from West Kerry...
Now... am I qualified to comment???

Vegeta

In fairness those birds are huge and they could have a field day with lambs and even a fully grown sheep.

I'd love to see the bird in Ireland but it will be interesting to see how it gets on in this environment

What's next though, re-introduce the wolf?

fits

Vegeta wrote:

In fairness those birds are huge and they could have a field day with lambs and even a fully grown sheep.

I'd love to see the bird in Ireland but it will be interesting to see how it gets on in this environment

Thats true, but these farmers aren't even adopting a 'wait and see' approach. Dont get me wrong, I definitely think lamb losses should be compensated, and if the eagles prove a problem in the national park, the whole reintroduction should be thought through again, but for the moment I'm happy to see this happening.
I'd imagine their prey would mostly be rabbits and rats (in which case they'd be very useful birds to have around) I cant see them attacking adult sheep btw...

doctor evil

I *think* they go after foxes as well if given the chance.

Vegeta

fits wrote:

Thats true, but these farmers aren't even adopting a 'wait and see' approach. Dont get me wrong, I definitely think lamb losses should be compensated, and if the eagles prove a problem in the national park, the whole reintroduction should be thought through again, but for the moment I'm happy to see this happening.
I'd imagine their prey would mostly be rabbits and rats (in which case they'd be very useful birds to have around) I cant see them attacking adult sheep btw...

You have obviously seen the size of these things, could I be mixing them up with the eagle they are re-introducing into scotland.

Can someone link pictures of this bird beside a human?

Rovi

Vegeta wrote:

Can someone link pictures of this bird beside a human?

From http://www.iwrc-online.org/magazine/2006/winter/RehabilitationinSweden.htm-



More detail here-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-tailed_Eagle

fits

OK I had done absolutely no research on this bird before. Yes they are in Scotland as well, and they've an 8 foot wingspan. I still cant see them attacking adult sheep, especially when their regular prey is a lot smaller...

White-tailed eagles are versatile and opportunistic hunters and carrion feeders, sometimes pirating food from other birds and even otters. They eat largely fish, but also take various birds, rabbits and hares.

Some pairs kill many fulmars, which are thought to be the source of DDT and PCBs (chemicals) recorded in eagle eggs. Carrion is an important part of their diet, especially during the winter months. Most lambs are taken as carrion.

The birds rely on surprise rather than agility to catch prey other than fish. When fishing, they fly low over water, stop to hover for a moment and drop to snatch fish from the surface. Sometimes the bird plunges in to catch prey deeper down.

They hold small prey in one foot and often eat it in flight, but usually carry larger prey in both feet to a convenient perch to eat it. The eagles are known to follow fishing boats and eat waste thrown overboard

During the breeding season while they are rearing young, they require 500-600g of food per day. This drops to 200-300g per day during the winter months when the birds are less active.
.

fits

How cool would it be to see this courtship display?

Pair-bond is strictly monogamous and life-long. If one of the pair dies, though, replacement can occur quickly. Age of initial pair formation is probably around 5 years of age when a permanent home-range is first chosen.

They have a characteristic aerial courtship display which culminates in the pair locking claws mid-air, whirling earthwards in a series of spectacular cartwheels, and separating sometimes only a few feet above the ground or water and soaring upwards again.

CJhaughey

AFAIK they eat mainly fish,seabirds and ducks and have not really been linked with any major lamb raids:)
There is one in the Fota wildlife park and it is a seriously impressive bird when seen in the flesh, about 3 feet tall.
this.

fits

I have to say, after reading all I've read this morning, I'm even more contemptuous of those eejits protesting at Kerry Airport..

thelurcher

johngalway wrote:

Sometimes I wish people who air comments such as the above would take a farmers lot for a week and see how they get on with it.

Bollocks talk - I'd give anything to be a farmer - what an idyllic life for anyone into field sports and the outdoors in general - I worked on farms from 12 years old to when I was finished college - that wasn't on a casual basis I was a paid farm labourer.

Don't forget they are running a business - it's up to them to manage their business properly - lots of the lads I hunt with in the winter are dairy farmers and they're out 4 or more days a week all season - they wouldn't trade in what they have for anything.

A lot of these moaning bastard farmers are the ones that haven't the intelligence to diversify or manage efficiently what they have - so they go looking for handouts - what else in the private sector would get away with that kind of crap so often :mad: