Will we get the government we deserve?

gbh

I think a lot of the electorate don't see the link between elections and the governance of the country for the next five years. They think that the elections are like the rose of tralee, a superficial contest with no real importance. But then they can't equate the way they voted with how the country ends up being run. So I think people should think long and hard about how they want the country run for the next five years before deciding who they vote for.

delta_bravo

gbh wrote:

I think a lot of the electorate don't see the link between elections and the governance of the country for the next five years. They think that the elections are like the rose of tralee, a superficial contest with no real importance.

I totally disagree. Im taking my vote seriously, as are most of the electorate. If people didnt take it seriously they wouldnt vote in the first place

simu

gbh wrote:

I think a lot of the electorate don't see the link between elections and the governance of the country for the next five years. They think that the elections are like the rose of tralee, a superficial contest with no real importance. But then they can't equate the way they voted with how the country ends up being run. So I think people should think long and hard about how they want the country run for the next five years before deciding who they vote for.

Rather presumptuous post that. You need only look in your own heart to see what the Irish people are thinking?

PH01

gbh wrote:

I think a lot of the electorate don't see the link between elections and the governance of the country for the next five years. They think that the elections are like the rose of tralee, a superficial contest with no real importance. But then they can't equate the way they voted with how the country ends up being run. So I think people should think long and hard about how they want the country run for the next five years before deciding who they vote for.

I absolutely agree.
For a while in this election campaign the electorate opinion was swaying away from sensible and prudent governance. Now based upon the recent opinion poll in today's Irish Times it seems that disaster has been averted. Hopefully this trend will continue in strength and strong stable government is secured again for another five years.

DarkJager

No we won't. From the polls out today it seems the public are being fooled by FF and their empty promises. The Irish public is going to stupidly put this jackass joke of a government back in power, then 2 years down the line will begin whinging about it. Its time for a real change in this country, but people don't see that.

Victor Meldrew

simu wrote:

Rather presumptuous post that. You need only look in your own heart to see what the Irish people are thinking?

I agree with the OP. We have an electorate who will forgive the Drumcondra boy anything, put up with bad health services, bad transport whilst chomping at the bit to buy sub-standard near slum like housing stock, all the while thinking fondly of Bertie. So yes, we will get the government we deserve .

Or to add, we get the govt tony o reilly tells us to vote for.....

CerebralCortex

PH01 wrote:

I absolutely agree.
For a while in this election campaign the electorate opinion was swaying away from sensible and prudent governance. Now based upon the recent opinion poll in today's Irish Times it seems that disaster has been averted. Hopefully this trend will continue in strength and strong stable government is secured again for another five years.

OMG you're rich aren't you?!

gbh

To be honest I don't see where Bertie beat Enda in the leader's debate. Basically Enda made a lot of sensible promises which reflect the desires of the Irish people such as more gardai, hospital beds, etc. But Bertie, the king of broken promises challenged that Enda won't achieve this...why because he knows from experience that getting into government is about promising the sun, the moon and the stars, but once in, you need to break promises over and over. So vote Fianna Fail back in and you will get more, more and more broken promises. The Irish electorate shouldn't be blinded to this, and they shouldn't forget the past five years. Because if you vote Fianna Fail in, it could be you or one of your relatives waiting on a trolley in a hospital hallway for a few days sometime in the future, even if it hasn't happened to you in the last five years.

Victor Meldrew

gbh wrote:

Bertie, the king of broken promises challenged that Enda won't achieve this. The Irish electorate shouldn't be blinded to this,

The Irish electorate are blinded by bertie as they were by Charlie, Its peverse, but they'll vote against their best interests. :mad:

I'd settle for a fair few heads to roll in FF and for bertie to be the "victim" of a "Country and western set" coup..

I'm sick of them acting like they own the country...

Thomas_S_Hunterson

gbh wrote:

Basically Enda made a lot of sensible promises which reflect the desires of the Irish people such as more gardai, hospital beds, etc

Every political party has made the exact same sensible promises, and for you to say that Enda is the man to fulfil them is naivety of the highest order. You have been blinded by the fancy "Contract for "Ireland" is nothing but electoral propaganda.

Agent J

I used this quote elsewhere but it's relevant here as well.

"I can confirm that no significant project over runs or cutback are planned. Secretly or otherwise"

Charlie McCreevy May 11th 2002.

Less than a month later the 1st memos with cuts and stops where coming from the department of finance.
Do people remember the 1st year after that election?
Either he was incompetent or he was lying.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Victor Meldrew wrote:

The Irish electorate are blinded by bertie as they were by Charlie, Its peverse, but they'll vote against their best interests. :mad:

Our best interests? According to whom

Another FF bashing thread.

I wish there was some emoticon to signal 'FF hating thread'. I don't mind debate, but I hate having to read down through a thread to realise that all it is is another list containg words like 'accident and emergency, PPARS' etc. etc.

PH01

CerebralCortex wrote:

OMG you're rich aren't you?!

Not as rich as you

DarkJager

Conor, you seem to be some FF fanatic. Sean Keevey, if you determine your best interests to be a government who can't tackle crime, have created a shambles out of the health service and who have made it impossible for most people to get on the housing ladder then vote FF.

DarkJager

DarkJager wrote:

Conor, you seem to be some FF fanatic.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Well I canvass for a FF candidate. As do many others. Is just accusing me of supporting FF now enough to condemn my point? If I pretended to be some rabid FF hater, would that make my points valid?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

DarkJager wrote:

Conor, you seem to be some FF fanatic. Sean Keevey, if you determine your best interests to be a government who can't tackle crime, have created a shambles out of the health service and who have made it impossible for most people to get on the housing ladder then vote FF.

Crime is a problem that is always going to exist. It is always going to give the opposition ammunition. If a new government does get into power, they willnot solve the crime problem ever

Our public health service is perfectly adequate. We do have a situation where people end up on trollies waiting to be seen, but this if anything is healthy in a centrist democracy. We do not want to have a situation where everyone falls back onthe state, because if this was the case, our social welfare system would collapse. Having the imperfect system that we do provides an incentive for people to use private health care if they can afford it. This eases the burden on the state and provided for a much healthier economy. Every one is still entitled to free state health care, but the people who work for money to pay for better health care can have it.

PH01

gbh wrote:

To be honest I don't see where Bertie beat Enda in the leader's debate. Basically Enda made a lot of sensible promises which reflect the desires of the Irish people such as more gardai, hospital beds, etc. But Bertie, the king of broken promises challenged that Enda won't achieve this...why because he knows from experience that getting into government is about promising the sun, the moon and the stars, but once in, you need to break promises over and over. So vote Fianna Fail back in and you will get more, more and more broken promises. The Irish electorate shouldn't be blinded to this, and they shouldn't forget the past five years. Because if you vote Fianna Fail in, it could be you or one of your relatives waiting on a trolley in a hospital hallway for a few days sometime in the future, even if it hasn't happened to you in the last five years.

Even the least objective observer would admit that Bertie won the debate but with no knockout blow. And that Enda didn't do as bad as most would have thought before hand.

Also, the Irish electorate aren't blind. We are one of the most political savy electorate in the world. And it appears that the message coming from the alternative government don't seem to add up and are not clear in their assertions.
Dumbing down the Irish electorate is misguided

DarkJager

sean keevey wrote:

Our public health service is perfectly adequate. We do have a situation where people end up on trollies waiting to be seen, but this if anything is healthy in a centrist democracy

So waiting 18 hours on a trolley in a dirty hospital hall is perfectly adequate? I don't think so. And this Government has lost the meaning of Democracy. They have turned this country into a Nanny State. Look at the smoking ban, passed without even consulting the public for a vote on it because the government believes smoking is wrong??? Look at Stamp Duty, the stealth taxes that these snakes have thrown on us, the fact that the man who is supposed to be the leader of the government couldn't tell the truth to save his life, and then tell me that this is an adequate democracy.

simu

So, form this thread I might gather that if a person votes for FF they must be blinded by Bertie's charm, no other reason.:rolleyes:

DarkJager

DarkJager wrote:

So waiting 18 hours on a trolley in a dirty hospital hall is perfectly adequate?

And that never happened in the 60s? Or the 70s? The 80s were great times for health, were they? Did it never happen in the 90s?

DarkJager wrote:

the smoking ban, passed without even consulting the public

Yeah. Previous governments banned drink driving without getting back to me. And using drugs. They're always looking after our health, its awful.

DarkJager wrote:

Look at Stamp Duty

Wait, hold on. Do you seriously think this Government introduced stamp duty?

cm2000

DarkJager wrote:

So waiting 18 hours on a trolley in a dirty hospital hall is perfectly adequate? I don't think so. And this Government has lost the meaning of Democracy. They have turned this country into a Nanny State. Look at the smoking ban, passed without even consulting the public for a vote on it because the government believes smoking is wrong??? Look at Stamp Duty, the stealth taxes that these snakes have thrown on us, the fact that the man who is supposed to be the leader of the government couldn't tell the truth to save his life, and then tell me that this is an adequate democracy.

they passed the smoking ban because it was endangering the health of the people against their will.

Voipjunkie

OMG what a bunch of losers FG and labour are one bad opinion poll and it is the Irish people are completely stupid for not agreeing with us 100%

The margin of error is +-3% so FF could just as easily be on 38% which would tie in with the previous opinion polls

In fact the core vote for FF in this poll is 39%

FG/Labour have not won an election in 25 years judging by the give in atitude to one poll of their supporters here it is not hard to see why

Cop on it is an opinion poll one of many the only poll that counts is on Thursday it will be time enough to be moping around come friday.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

DarkJager wrote:

So waiting 18 hours on a trolley in a dirty hospital hall is perfectly adequate?

18 hours is a lot but these are isolated incidents which are so often quoted in horror stories and by no means reflect everyday occurences in the health service.

DarkJager wrote:

Look at the smoking ban, passed without even consulting the public for a vote on it because the government believes smoking is wrong???

I think it might have had something to do with protecting the fundamental human rights of the employees and citizens of ireland. You must remember that there is no all out smoking ban, smoking is just banned where people are employed to protect them from passive smoking.

Heinrich

sean_keevey wrote:

18 hours is a lot but these are isolated incidents which are so often quoted in horror stories and by no means reflect everyday occurences in the health service.

I think it might have had something to do with the fundamental human rights of the employees and citizens of ireland. You must remember that there is no all out smonking ban, smoking is just banned where people are employed to protect them from passive smoking.

Beaumont Hospital has many isolated incidents! It also has MRSA. The everyday occurances in Healthcare are long waits for cervical cancer screening, women in labour in waiting rooms populated by visitors and the like.

What planet are you on?

bill_ashmount

DarkJager wrote:

No we won't. From the polls out today it seems the public are being fooled by FF and their empty promises. The Irish public is going to stupidly put this jackass joke of a government back in power, then 2 years down the line will begin whinging about it. Its time for a real change in this country, but people don't see that.

It's just a pity that everyone else doesn't have your level of intelligence to see through it. :rolleyes:

Thomas_S_Hunterson

DarkJager wrote:

No we won't. From the polls out today it seems the public are being fooled by FF and their empty promises. The Irish public is going to stupidly put this jackass joke of a government back in power, then 2 years down the line will begin whinging about it. Its time for a real change in this country, but people don't see that.

We'll be whinging 2 months after the election no matter who gets into power!

Real change?? ffs grow up. People are never happy with their politicians and for you to be singing the praises of FG/Labour/Greens is pure naivety. You'll probably be complaining about them in a years time when they haven't solved crime/healthcare/stamp duty/world hunger/poverty because at the end of the day these things will never be solved.

DarkJager

And that never happened in the 60s? Or the 70s? The 80s were great times for health, were they? Did it never happen in the 90s?

I'm not saying they were brilliant then, but they certainly were not as bad as they are now. This Government has been promising to raise the standard of healthcare but have done sweet **** all.

Yeah. Previous governments banned drink driving without getting back to me. And using drugs. Their always looking after our health, its awful.

The smoking ban affected a majority of the population who actually do enjoy to smoke. Were we asked in a public vote whether we wanted a ban on smoking? Of course not, the government just made up our minds for us.

Did I say this government introduced stamp duty Conor??? No I did not. But they have let it get so out of control, thats its next to impossible for young people to get a foot in the door of the property market now.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Heinrich wrote:

Beaumont Hospital has many isolated incidents! It also has MRSA. The everyday occurances in Healthcare are long waits for cervical cancer screening, women in labour in waiting rooms populated by visitors and the like.

What planet are you on?

Of course, it was Fianna Fáil that unleashed MRSA on the world, how could I not have known.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

DarkJager wrote:

I'm not saying they were brilliant then, but they certainly were not as bad as they are now. This Government has been promising to raise the standard of healthcare but have done sweet **** all.

Perhaps you should remove your rose tinted spectacles and take another look, because clearly you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Floppybits

I still haven't decided who I am voting for on Thursday. I watched the bertie/enda debate on the tv last week and to tell you the truth I wasn't that impressed by Bertie. I thought he was totally negative and didn't put anything forward, all he seem to do was attach Enda. I think the free health care for all 5 year olds is a good move but all Bertie seem to harp on about is that no under 5 this will be covered, what is FF alternative to this, do they have alternative to this and if they do why didn't Bertie put this across the other night?

On the other side, I wasn't that impressed with Enda, he let Bertie away with too much and I got the impression that Enda was kinda weak and could be easily pushed around, but on the plus side he was pushing across the ideas that they have for government.

I am kinda leaning toward FG/Lab due to the fact that they are actually putting across policies. FF and PD's have only been negative campaigning.