patch 2.1

Jim

[QUOTE=Dataisgod
On the holy paladin note i've played Jimeatsmenu paladin in raids both prior to and after the patch. The change to illumination seemed to easily covered by a slightly higher mana pot consumption. no biggie.[/QUOTE]

Costing me money you!

Woden

mailed some back didn't I!

BKtje

I disagree with this. Fury dps is top notch. It matters little for a pve fury warrior that enrage doesn't stack with deathwish as they don't get hit anyway. 5% fluffy is easily made up by the changes to glancing blows with a significant percentage of a fury warriors damage being white.

I really dont like when people say that because of glancing blows change that the flurry nerf was justified. If this is the case, why is rogue and shaman version still the same. The shamans particularly, since a correctly geared/talented rogue is supposed to top melee dps. While our dps (in this area) might remaind fairly stable, we lost ground on those other two classes. I guess we should be happy that we werent nerfed further.

I was a fury warrior before TBC and while my damage done rarely topped the charts it was usually around the top 5ish or so in 40 man raids. While my gear isn't as good as my fury dps gear was back then its still strength/ap heavy (similar crit rate at about 27% in serker, ap when fully buffed(incl rampage) was about 2400 with increased spikes when trinket procced. Not the highest but by no means crap and i still can't get anywhere near lock/mage/rogue dps. I'm not saying i should be higher than these classes but within 200dps would be nice. I was having trouble out dpsing the tanking warrior by a decent margin and was generally bottom of the damage dealers by a good distance. I was prot spec for most of our Kara runs so did concentrate on prot gear but seeing as we usually have one warriors in a run i automatically did get any warrior dps gear.

I have since switched to a 31/30 build with a fairly average epic 2hander and my dps is a hell of a lot more(still in basically fury gear). So much so that thanks to whirlwind, sweeping strikes and imp cleave that i can top damage metres. Gone are the days where it was one high level mob vs 40ish people. True in the 25mans there it is more common(one high lvl mob i mean) but in 5/10mans/multiple mob situations 31/30 is far superior.

Is the 31/30 build supposed to be better than a a full fury build in pve by such a margin(at least up to gruul, no experience beyond)? Why was fury nerfed so badly yet had very little impact on the 31/30 build (in pve) which was one of the reasons the nerf came (deathwish/enrage was largely nerfed due to these stacking in arena's and meaning warriors decimated cloth users. If you wanna nerf pvp, why punish pve errs, why not move deathwish further down the fury tree).
It might be that with fantastic gear that fury might once again out dps the 31/30 hybrid but atm it seems like a very weak tree in the later stages.

Regarding your proof that a fury dps out dps'd every one pre patch. Without having the builds for all the damage dealers, gear difference between them, mobs being faced in that raid etc i cannot take a true account. Perhaps by the time we reach Tempest Keep my fury gear will be suffecient enough to be up there with the top damage dealers but why bother(currently) when 31/30 is decent in pvp and currently superior in pve.

All warriors who used to be fury in my guild (we had started naxx when tbc arrived just to show that they probably arent complete ****wits) switched to 31/30 for pve dps simply because in Kara/heroics/Gruul it is superior. Some infact rerolled shaman/druid/rogue but thats a different matter.

I'd be interested to compare a similarly geared 31/30 warrior to your fury dps post patch. I really hope that fury dps improves as we go on as it really is much more fun in PvE than a big slow 2hander. You have given me some hope though for the future.

Woden

I'm not saying myself that the glancing blows changes justify the flurry nerf but that the make up for it. The nerf imo is more related to the dps that fury is outputting.

B-K-DzR wrote:

I have since switched to a 31/30 build with a fairly average epic 2hander and my dps is a hell of a lot more(still in basically fury gear). So much so that thanks to whirlwind, sweeping strikes and imp cleave that i can top damage metres. Gone are the days where it was one high level mob vs 40ish people. True in the 25mans there it is more common(one high lvl mob i mean) but in 5/10mans/multiple mob situations 31/30 is far superior.

I don't think anyone will argue that the arms spec will benefit from a multiple mob situation. Personally though i'm not that pushed on trash where that spec can play catch up to single target boss dps.

B-K-DzR wrote:

Is the 31/30 build supposed to be better than a a full fury build in pve by such a margin(at least up to gruul, no experience beyond)? Why was fury nerfed so badly yet had very little impact on the 31/30 build (in pve) which was one of the reasons the nerf came (deathwish/enrage was largely nerfed due to these stacking in arena's and meaning warriors decimated cloth users. If you wanna nerf pvp, why punish pve errs, why not move deathwish further down the fury tree).

I disagree that is it better even up to the pve level you mentioned. With most of the bosses and encounters being single target dps again. I also disagree that it was nerfed badly. 5% attack speed of flurry to me does not justify this. The nerf to deathwish/enrage did what it intended to do and has not punished pve'rs as they are unlikely to get enrage in a pve environment anyway.

I'll be keeping an eye on our fury warriors dps now that he patch is here but I am only expecting it to go up (along with the rogues). I do believe though that an arms warrior has a slot in the raid the 4% increased dmg for melee is rather nice indeed. I do think fury is very gear related though but hey what class isn't.

(as a by the by that is not my guild above just a druid i was chatting to who had nice dps on that fight and i took a note of it)

BKtje

I'm not saying fury dps has fallen hugely cos of this patch (which i do realise now that i reread my previous post i did say, apologies)but it has fallen, infact i feel its been pretty sub standard for the primary pve dps tree since TBC. At first i thought it was mainly the lack of decent warrior loot (damn you pallys!) but the more i look into it the more i believe that fury has just not scaled well enough compared to other classes/hybrid tree. Fury was supposed to be THE choice for farming and raiding warriors. This just isn't the case (especially with farming).

With most of the bosses and encounters being single target dps again.

In 5 mans (both heroic and single) there are more multiple mob pulls than single mob pulls where the arms spec will shine. This trend continues into Karazahn where there are a lot of multiple mob (by multiple i mean at least 2 which is where sweeping strikes with imp cleave decimates things). In gruul you see a return to more standard one or two mobs trash pulls (largest is 3 iirc and they are split up anyway). Fury should come into its own on single target bosses (as you have said) where it is easy enough to keep rampage up for most of the time. In theory this should make fury superior to 31/30 hybrid for bosses (i haventdone thorough checking of numbers on bosses) but if i looked at my fury dps vs a 31/30 dps warrior it wasnt a huge difference. Especially not when you look at the simply huge gap in dps difference on the trash (which is usually multiple mob).

Briefly speaking, in Kara there are too many multiple mob trash pulls for fury to make it up on the bosses.
This trend improves slightly for fury in Gruul's lair.
The trash fights are smaller pulls (however if positioned right 31/30 still favoured). The first boss starts off very fury friendly however the more boss adds that die the bigger the breaks between hitting them which means rampage buff drops away and brings 31/30 back to the forefront. On gruul itself, even though its a long fight it much more suits the burst dps build of a 31/30 to a fury since every 90 seconds rampage will have to build from scratch again. I'd have to do more checking though to see conclusive results one way or another.

One thing it could be is that high dps 2handers are much easier to get than the 1hander equivalents (thanks in part to BS weapons). If i think about it, 2handed weapons are generally superior to one handed ones in many cases (at least up to gruul).

Fury was always very gear related (it was generally said that you needed 1k unbuffed ap before you outdid an arms spec in pre 2.0). This was pretty easily gotten after you did MC for a bit. Perhaps Kara isn't equivalent to MC regarding first epic gear uprades or perhaps the level where fury out does the hybrid is much higher. Whatever it is, is till don't see the point in the nerf to the fury tree in its current form. Move talents around, sure (infact the fury tree doesn't have a great layout but thats a different argument) but why nerf the talent that increase our hit speed(as fury is primarily a white dps build,as u rightly pointed out, the drop in speed means less hits and less chance to reapply flurry before buff runs its course).

Currently i don't see any reason to spec fury over 31/30 at the level of raiding im at. That said most PvE warriors are speccing prot anyway (i'll revert back after i complete my tests) so perhaps its not a big deal anyway.

Edit: Apologies for all the text. It's just so frustrating to go from a class that had multiple roles in wow 1.* to being pigeonholed to being basically a tanking class in 2.* .

ZygOte

is anyone else experiencing graphics glithches since 2.1? im getting funny texture errors since the patch, parts of the terrain contantly flash black and then back to normal.

cance

ZygOte wrote:

is anyone else experiencing graphics glithches since 2.1? im getting funny texture errors since the patch, parts of the terrain contantly flash black and then back to normal.

yeah im getting that too, weird. and whenever i dismount in a bg i freeze for 2-3 seconds, whole game freezes and usually renders me dead.

nix

aye my mountains flash white, and then npc humans/besats graphics go weird. Just the other day my friends raptor pet looked like he was turned inside out. Damn patches !!

Mac daddy

yup same here when i enter a Bg it freezes for about 5secs then normal again.
I know its not my hardware or addons as disabled all addons still getting the same problems.

Last night during our gruul raid 10 people got disconnected at the same time including me, everyone was still on vent chatting relogin we all had the freeze problem upon entering the instance.
After relogin several times we got booted to sharrath city and heartstones were not on a cooldown!

Fly back to gruul and face respawns Gj blizz.

Edit:
On the plus side i love my shaman even more now, i have been full resto for the past couple of months and with healing way working correctly i can downrank to HW5 and heal for 3k.

Did a Bm run last night
Warrior full prot
Druid feral
Hunter
Me Shaman Resto
and a mage

Cleared the place after the last boss still had 6.1k mana left without using pots or manatide.
Rest of the instances spammed rank 1 and rank 3 spells drank once after applying a earthshield on the tank.

Dcully

Just to add,im getting flashing textures and strange looking mobs also since patch.

Cuddlesworth

My game seems to freeze every time I pick up a quest item.