Irelands Prison System

robinph

SeanW wrote:

And the murderer was not sentenced to life because?

people who commit murder, or commit a crime involving a serious level of malice, in my view should be put away for life. Then it doesn't matter what their conditions because they're not getting back in to society.

But the in the case given it sounds as if that murderer has successfully been rehabilitated, got an education, and can now return to society and perform a useful function (depending on how useful you think a business degree actually is of course). What is to be gained from leaving them locked up in a prison for the rest of their natural life at great cost to the state, other than making the victims family feel that revenge has been served?

FTA69

[QUOTE=seamus

Well that depends on your own point of view. As Gobán Saor points out, some people may view 8oz of resin as more than personal use. I would be one of these people. But then of course other people may definitely consider it personal use, particularly for heavy users.

People used to buy bars for personal use but that was before all the high-quality weed and pollen was about. Your man a know was selling a small bit of it.

It's the same token as a person going buying a crate of cans to drink. One person may say, "Ah he must be having a party", whereas someone else may consider that a normal weekend's drinking.

F*ckin telling me!

I'd have to disagree that a year in prison (with probably a release after six months) is "destroying" someone's life, particularly someone so young.

A middle-class hippie with long hair in Mountjoy for six months? He wouldn't last it, and you can be sure the effect it would have on his future life would be far from beneficial. I'm not for a second saying that class or background should have a bearing on sentence, I just don't think a year in prison is warranted for a small amount of gear.

johnnyskeleton

Gob&#225 wrote: »

What sentences do you think are too harsh. I have to say, none particularly spring to mind.

My first point would be that tough sentences are usually printed in a small paragraph in the paper, while lenient sentences get a half page.

But generally, over 5 years for a first offence in the circuit court would be harsh in my view, imposing a custodial sentence for a non-violent/violating first offence would be a bit harsh.

A sentence for rape over 10 years, without any extreme aggravating factors, would be harsh, and I think generally, juries will tend to opt for manslaughter over murder in many cases - not necessarily because they have followed their charge, but more because they think a life sentence would be harsh

philologos

bget wrote:

Not necessarily.. Can you honestly tell me you think its just that criminals in jail get qalifications they otherwise wouldn't have when their victims can't.

A friend of mind was telling me of a 17 year old girl who was murdered by her boyfriend in her area 20 years ago.. The girl and her family were and are close to my friends family.. This girl had just finished her leaving cert and wanted to study business, her boyfriend was older and unemployed. He is now free and on top of that he has a business degree... how just is that?

If the prisoner has genuinely changed his behaviour for the better, I don't see a problem in him having a degree. As terrible as the crime is, we should forgive those who have changed in jail, and made a new life for themselves when they got back on the outside.

karen3212

bget wrote:

I know that and i see your point. But convicted criminals can find it very hard to find work once they are released. The frustration of this coupled with having people trying to get you back into crime does enevitably result in many returning to crime. Good intentions only go so far before reality kicks in..

That is a good point really, I think parts of our system definately need changing. Though as I've said before I'm for improving it humanely, via education and training whilst people are in prison. And getting them into jobs when they get out, obviously some people still need counselling or other help to adjust back into society.

I've read recently though, that if society helped parents and kids who might be disadvantaged in various way, before their kids got to pre-school, then it would cost us less money-wise overall. I know money isn't everything, but it talks to certain sections of society. Perhaps we will continue on the road to crime prevention, and have far less crime in future. Hopeful

Jotter

johnnyskeleton wrote:

I
Some will be unrepentant gangland murderers but others will be once off offenders who are extremenly unlikely to offend again, and it is better to make something productive out of them than to turn them into worse criminals.

I would agree with this. I knew a guy who was in prison for 2 years for actual bodily harm. He served the whole 2 years and came out a better person for it imo. He served it in mountjoy, i visited him twice and it was an awful place. His room was overcrowded, he slept on a mattress on the floor, his head was shaved bec the place was infested with lice and he said there were rats everywhere.

This imo is how prison should be. A horrible place that you dont ever want to go back to. A punishment.

He came out and got a job as a gardener in a hotel, this guy had never done a days work in all the time I knew him, he was lazy as sin and sat around smoking hash all day. Prison worked on him but he was a once off offender.
Prison doesnt work for people who are hardened criminals. I do think education is a good way to go, that way no offender can pull the 'poor me' card bec they have something to build their new lives upon. I think prison should be hard but productive.

I also think prison should be reserved for criminals who are rapists, peadophiles, drug lords, murderers and people who seriously assault others. I do not think it should be used for shoplifters, non payment of taxes or fines, minor drug offences etc.

I think those people would be far better off serving the community, particularly tax evaders and the like as they would be utterly ashamed being seen cleaning up rubbish or getting graffitti off shutters by their peers.

This bloke I knew also said drugs were everywhere in prison, this needs to stop and i can understand the prison officers turning a blind eye as it makes their life easier in one respect but imo drugs are the root of all evil, imagine how much less crime there would be in a world without drugs. Unfortunately the drug crisis is so bad that I can never see that happening in our lifetime.

Someone also mentioned tougher sentencing for sexual offenders. i dont believe these people can ever be rehabilitated and I think peodphiles in particular should get life for abusing a child, mandatory sentence. This business of letting them out after 2 years and then here they are again for assaulting another child a few years later has to stop.

I saw in the paper a few years ago a man getting 2 yrs for shoplifing cds and on the same page another guy gets 18 mths for sexually assaulting a six yr old - that is just so wrong I cant put it into words.