Koran in Irish -- Translation more generally

mountainyman

Does anyone know if the translation of the Koran into Irish is complete?
Also is there a sacerdotal element to such a translation.

MM

drdre

mountainyman wrote:

Does anyone know if the translation of the Koran into Irish is complete?
Also is there a sacerdotal element to such a translation.

MM

Is there a Quran in Irish :rolleyes:

Hobbes

Is there a point to your post Drdre?

drdre

Hobbes wrote:

Is there a point to your post Drdre?

Yeah i was just asking is there a Quran in irish? Was there a point to your post?

wes

Didn't know about this. Very interesting however.

drdre

wes wrote:

Didn't know about this. Very interesting however.

Yes thats why i made a comment.

Hobbes

drdre wrote:

Yeah i was just asking is there a Quran in irish? Was there a point to your post?

Well the original poster already pointed that out. Also a question normally ends in ? not :rolleyes: which infers sarcasm (move your mouse over the icon).

So you understand why I may of misunderstood your question for what it is.

blackthorn

There was something about this translation project back in 2003 I think. Haven't heard anything since then.

A translation into Irish just like any other translation would not be used for sacred activities such as salah and recitation, where only the original Arabic is appropriate.

the_new_mr

Salah (Sala) = prayer.

Please make sure you translate any Arabic words into English. Thank you.

mountainyman

drdre wrote:

Is there a Quran in Irish :rolleyes:

wow a direct repeat of my question.
so good it had to be asked twice.

If the Koran is the literal transcription of Go'ds word. what is the religious and (spiritual for the translator) meaning of the act of translation.

MM

InFront

I don't think it has been translated into Irish yet, Mountainyman. I'm not sure how someone would go about doing it, it would be best to be translated with accuracy directly from Arabic to Irish as opposed to using an intermediary language like English. Is there a definite plan by someone to do it?

If not, it will probably appear some years down the line when there are more Irish speaking Muslims who grew up and were educated here. One would need excellent Arabic, excellent Irish and a very strong familiarity with and understanding of the Qur'an and Islam in general - it would be important to translate meanings, as opposed to creating a literal word-for-word translation that an academic linguist might write.
Very interesting idea though, I hope it happens at some stage:)

what is the religious and (spiritual for the translator) meaning of the act of translation.

It is not of the same significance as the Arabic, since it is only a description of what the Arabic says. In that sense, a translation is not as legitimate.

Truther

Well I speak Irish, and learning Arabic atm, maybe I should do it . Please send donations.

drdre

mountainyman wrote:

wow a direct repeat of my question.
so good it had to be asked twice.

If the Koran is the literal transcription of Go'ds word. what is the religious and (spiritual for the translator) meaning of the act of translation.

MM

Sorry misunderstood the question and just read it wrong

the_new_mr

mountainyman wrote:

If the Koran is the literal transcription of Go'ds word. what is the religious and (spiritual for the translator) meaning of the act of translation.

Well, I know I've said this countless times before on this forum but I should mention here also that there is no such thing as an Irish or English Quran. Rather they would be/are translations of the Quran. Whenever a translator translates, they have to read the verse in Arabic and then interpret it and translate this interpretation which means that it's not the Quran.

But for those who don't speak Arabic or whose Arabic isn't very strong then it's a perfectly acceptable way of trying to understand the Quran.

mountainyman

OK but my understanding is that the act of transcription of the Koran is religious (is this wrong)
Is the act of translation then laden with sacerdotal significgance or not?

MM

the_new_mr

Not sure if I understand your question. I had to look up sacerdotal.

Are you saying that the translation is to be taken as a word of God in the same way that the Arabic is as if the translator is infallible when it comes to its interpretation? If that's what you're asking then the answer is no. A translation is only a translation and can't be considered infallible. Take the following example which I've mentioned on here before.

In verse number 16 of Surat Al-'Alaq, the transliteration is:
Nasiyatin kathibatin khatiatin

An older translation (Yusuf Ali for example) has translated this verse as:
A lying, sinful forelock!

The Arabic word nasaya was translated as forelock (which is a bit of hair on the forehead). However, the nasaya is literally the front part of the head but some of the older translators must have thought to themselves "The interpretation here must be the hair on that part of the head".

A (somewhat) recent scientific discovery has shown that the frontal lobe of the brain is responsible for judgment. That is to say that if someone wishes to tell a lie or commit a sin, it must be approved or disapproved in this part of the brain first. So, with this in mind, a more recent translation (that of Asad) has the following translation:
the lying, rebellious forehead!
using the word forehead instead of forelock.

When you think about it, if God wants to drag someone by their forehead then He most certainly can.

So, that's one example of how the interpretation may have been wrong in the past and (theoretically) could be again. No doubt, any person who sincerely attempts to translate the Quran must surely be doing a very big good deed.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I wonder is the leaving cert exam for Arabic still on at the same time as one of the Irish papers. Bound to be more people doing both subjects in coming years.

the_new_mr

That last post was only just on-topic

But yeah, I'd say you're right. They should definitely be on at different times.

hivizman

the_new_mr wrote:

Well, I know I've said this countless times before on this forum but I should mention here also that there is no such thing as an Irish or English Quran. Rather they would be/are translations of the Quran. Whenever a translator translates, they have to read the verse in Arabic and then interpret it and translate this interpretation which means that it's not the Quran.

But for those who don't speak Arabic or whose Arabic isn't very strong then it's a perfectly acceptable way of trying to understand the Quran.

What English language version of (or interpretation of) the Qur'an do people prefer and why? I was introduced to the Qur'an when a friend gave me a copy of the Abdullah Yusuf Ali version, which I understand is widely available. I like Ali's use of the English language (though I guess that some readers would find it a bit "biblical"), and the thousands of notes and commentary in the edition I was given help to explain the verses, but it's in such small print that I find it hard to read unless I'm in a very good light. I also have a copy of the recent version by Muhammad Abdel Haleem for Oxford World's Classics, which uses more straightforward and contemporary English than Ali, but doesn't have the same sense of grandeur and spirituality.

Any other suggestions?

Frank Grimes

hivizman wrote:

What English language version of (or interpretation of) the Qur'an do people prefer and why?

My favourite translation is this one by Muhammad Asad. If you take a look through the comments on Amazon you'll get the idea. I just find it very easy to read and the commentary he provided is truly excellent. It can get technical in parts from what I remember (been a while since I read any of the notes) as he explains why he used certain words, the roots of words etc. The whole thing is even more remarkable considering English and Arabic were his 3rd and 4th languages, or something like that anyway - I must check that out!

Another translation I've been reading is by Aisha Bewley (link), I find the language in that easier to read also but she doesn't give a commentary on the text and there are hardly any notes either. She's a translator rather than a scholar basically.

The only translation that I've read and didn't really like was the one by Al Hilali & Khan. I don't think (IMO) that it is really aimed at non-Muslims, there are better ones to read if you're not familiar with the text.

hivizman

Frank Grimes wrote:

My favourite translation is by Muhammad Asad. If you take a look through the comments on Amazon you'll get the idea. I just find it very easy to read and the commentary he provided is truly excellent. It can get technical in parts from what I remember (been a while since I read any of the notes) as he explains why he used certain words, the roots of words etc. The whole thing is even more remarkable considering English and Arabic were his 3rd and 4th languages, or something like that anyway - I must check that out!

Thanks - the Muhammad Asad version looks worth checking out. I see that there's a paperback edition in six volumes, which may be easier to handle than the one-volume hardback edition. The interesting feature for me is that the Asad version appears to contain a transliteration of the Arabic text as well as the text in Arabic script and an English-language version.

Frank Grimes

hivizman wrote:

Thanks - the Muhammad Asad version looks worth checking out. I see that there's a paperback edition in six volumes, which may be easier to handle than the one-volume hardback edition. The interesting feature for me is that the Asad version appears to contain a transliteration of the Arabic text as well as the text in Arabic script and an English-language version.

I have the hardback edition and it does indeed have a transliteration of the Arabic as well as the English and Arabic text.

the_new_mr

After lots of searching, I managed to find myself a small (almost pocket-size) copy of a Yusuf Ali translation. From reading the QuranSearch section of the islamicity.com site (http://islamicity.com/QuranSearch), I have to say I quite like the Mohamed Asad version and am on the lookout for one of those.

Picktall and Shakir are two other good translations. I would strongly recommend against reading any other translation apart from these four (Ali, Asad, Picktall and Shakir).