VRT will now be 100% Linked to Emissions

old boy

as sure as god made little green apples theres gonna be a green tax on cars in the next budget regardless of who is in power, handy way of raising dosh tho

unkel

Tipsy Mac wrote:

What the article says is " range of possible options are now being considered, including a full CO2 emissions-related scheme." nothing there says 100% emissions based

Exactly. The article just seems a re-hash based on some ideas from the last year's budget. Oh and yeah, some organisations have made submissions since then. Poor journalism imho :rolleyes:

pburns

To be honest I'll be surprised if a fully emissions-based VRT system is introduced in January...

I'm all for it though. A quick trawl through Top Gear mag illustrates that a 320d / Civic 1.8 VTEC etc have comparable CO2 emissions to the much maligned VW 1.4... By thinking between the lines it should be possible to have a much wider choice of desirable cars.

I just don't agree with removing VRT from the new car price and putting it on fuel. From an environmental point of view the amount of energy required in the manufacturing process is as significent (if not more so) than the fuel it would use during it's life-time. If we really want to make some effort to be 'green' (and probably not many petrol-heads here really care!) we should be incentivising the use of older cars instead of encouraging people to have the latest 07 plate. And I can't see the government doing that!

OK a CO2-based isn't perfect, especially for enthusiasts who want to hear the purr of a 3.0L straight-six petrol, but it's better than what we have!

JHMEG

DonJose wrote:

If VRT was abolished, the price of second hand cars would be cheaper also.

This is the major problem with trying to get rid of VRT. It would be akin to a crash in the housing market. EVERYONE who owns a car would affected by it. Your average nearly new 1.6 family car would probably lose about 6,000 euro in value in an instant.

I just bought a car for €8,500. Going on the revenue's VRT calculator I would be looking at an instant loss of between 2,000 and 2,500 euro in value if VRT was abolished.

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

This is the major problem with trying to get rid of VRT. It would be akin to a crash in the housing market

It's hardly on the same scale. Cars are and have always been rapidly depreciating assets. Houses have been (in this country) steeply appreciating assets. Nothing would happen to the economy of this country if the average second hand price of cars would drop by 30% overnight. If the average second hand price of a house would drop by 30% overnight there would be trouble. Big trouble!

JHMEG

unkel wrote:

It's hardly on the same scale. Cars are and have always been rapidly depreciating assets. Houses have been (in this country) steeply appreciating assets. Nothing would happen to the economy of this country if the average second hand price of cars would drop by 30% overnight. If the average second hand price of a house would drop by 30% overnight there would be trouble. Big trouble!

What about the average farmer who bought a brand new Avensis last year for around 29k. Expecting it to lose around 3-4k after a year, it loses 10k instead.

And the big cheese in the city (or average public servant) who bought an E200 last year for 57k. Instead of losing 7k or so in a year, it loses a whopping 32k.

And with decrease in re-sale value, dealers' margins fall. And SIMI is a powerful lobby group.

And don't forget the potential of new car sales dropping to zero as a result of the "don't buy now, wait till next year when VRT is abolished" attitude. A bit like now with houses and stamp duty.

These are the kind of things in this country that can cause a government to fall.

MercMad

I know VRT is already factored in to the costs of used cars, and that all values will fall, but the cost to change up 2/3/4 years will remain the same.

Think of the used cars sitting on forecourts with money against them, say a Mondeo that has ana sking price of €25k, and stands the garage €23k. The VRT situation changes and now the car is only worth €22k used ?

Also all these lease deals that are out there are based upon depreciation over the lease period, which again will change and screw things up.

Its a complex issue, and plenty of people stand to loose. this is obviously what is meant when they state that they have spoken with "stakeholders" meaning SIMI members and financial institutions, but why should they have more say than the rest of us who also own cars and are essentially a larger majority of "stakeholders".

This could only be done on a phased basis, and if it is fuel linked then the cost of everything, and I mean everything will rise, as transport compnaies will have to charge more just to bring products to the marketplace.

I dont have the answers but innevitably it will be ill concieved and cost us, the Irish Motorist, a lot more in the end and a lot more than they will indicate at the start.

I am also wondering why a commercial X5 should recieve such a huge VRT reduction in the first place. If you need something for business buy a Van ! Now I dont want to dictate to anyone what they should buy but fair is fair, and currently a lot of things are not !

Also dont forget that the Irish Motorist contributes hugely to the "coffers" yets IMO the people using public transport contribute nothing. They are being subsidised by us. It is unreasonable to expect people to get away with paying €2.00 to get from Malahide to the City centre for example.............its too cheap !

I say double the price of public transport and halve motor tax !

Either way the Irish Motorist should join forces, start a proper organisation, collect funds and start making demands before we get walked on again. We are a strong group of passionate people !

JHMEG

MercMad wrote:

We are a strong group of passionate people !

All we need is a good leader!;)

Marcus.Aurelius

VRT should not be levied on safety equipment. IF you're thick enough to buy a new car, then you're just being raped a bit harder. You're still being raped, what's the problem?

smash

maoleary wrote:

IF you're thick enough to buy a new car

what kind of statement is that... if you want a new car, you get one... it doesn't make you thick!

MercMad

we should be incentivising the use of older cars instead of encouraging people to have the latest 07 plate. And I can't see the government doing that!

.......precisely !

No the Government wont do that because it will upset the "stakeholders" or should I say, it will upset who the Government want to believe are the stakeholders, i.e not Joe Public !

Mc-BigE

maoleary wrote:

VRT should not be levied on safety equipment. IF you're thick enough to buy a new car, then you're just being raped a bit harder. You're still being raped, what's the problem?

Without New cars there'll be no 2nd hand bargins for you to have:D

also using your logic, a person could be considered thick for buying a 2nd hand car, because it will be worth less in 5 years from the time you bought it.

sesswhat

Mc-BigE wrote:

Without New cars there'll be no 2nd hand bargins for you to have:D

Is there a danger we're going to run out of thick people??

layke

I'd like to point out we live in Ireland. Car dealers will just jack up the price of the cars knowing people will pay it if the vrt comes off.

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

What about the average farmer who bought a brand new Avensis last year for around 29k

Every single average farmer in Ireland is a multi-millionaire if he / she sold out. A few grand here or there isn't really material for said farmer, is it?

Raiser

steve06 wrote:

what kind of statement is that... if you want a new car, you get one... it doesn't make you thick!

Due to the ridiculous demon that is VRT - If you buy a new car then you Sir are actually paying 3% of the annual housing fee for a malfunctioning, redundant electronic voting machine straight out of you own pocket.

FACT!*





* Note: All facts may not in actual fact be factual facts.

ninty9er

Raiser wrote:

Due to the ridiculous demon that is VRT - If you buy a new car then you Sir are actually paying 3% of the annual housing fee for a malfunctioning, redundant electronic voting machine straight out of you own pocket.

FACT!*





* Note: All facts may not in actual fact be factual facts.

Really....3% of my €0 tax goes to maintaing voting machines...cop on!!

Anyway the farmer who pays €30k for the Avensis and loses 10k overnight would only be paying 23-24k for his new Avensis next year so it balances out!!

Raiser

ninty9er wrote:

Really....3% of my €0 tax goes to maintaing voting machines...cop on!!

Anyway the farmer who pays €30k for the Avensis and loses 10k overnight would only be paying 23-24k for his new Avensis next year so it balances out!!

? If they won't read the small print then I labour in vain

- Hope ye'all have a poor day tomorrow 99'r - nothin' personal you understand

colm_mcm

layke wrote:

I'd like to point out we live in Ireland. Car dealers will just jack up the price of the cars knowing people will pay it if the vrt comes off.

unlikely, if it was significantly cheaper to import new cars from Northern Ireland, then people would do that.

galwaytt

maoleary wrote:

IF you're thick enough to buy a new car,

...then you'd better hope all us new-car buyers don't take offence, or, worse, start buying second hand ones......

Why? Easy -for a car to become secondhand, someone has to buy it new, first. So you, sir, are both suffering from 'funnel vision' as well as being rude.

If it wasn't for the likes of (me, kinda..), Unkel would never be able to pick up the yokes he does, for the price he does.....(although we do have to listen to him afterwards..;) ), and nor would anyone else..........

Likewise, Ned & ColmMcm are all feeding your habit..........there isn't a factory I know of punting out used cars.........

daedalus2097

The Atheist wrote:

No, but if they pay for the emissions it makes at the same rates as everyone else, then they should be allowed drive what they like.

Besides the whole engine size thing is not an accurate gauge of emissions.

Very true... A larger, more powerful engine doesn't have to try as hard as a small engine that struggles with the weight of its own car. I get similar MPG from my 2.0l Golf and the 1.3l Fiesta I used to drive. The Fiesta would be flat out on the motorway, whereas I barely have to touch the accelerator in the Golf, and so the emissions are going to be not that much more (unless I drive the sh1t out of the Golf of course ). Yet the road tax for the Golf is around double the Fiesta, and the VRT at the moment would be an order of magnitude higher for the Golf as it's a "desirable" car according to our Revenue friends...

unkel

galwaytt wrote:

If it wasn't for the likes of (me, kinda..), Unkel would never be able to pick up the yokes he does, for the price he does.....

Exactly. I love people buying expensive new cars and changing them often for even newer and more expensive cars. Far play them!

galwaytt wrote:

although we do have to listen to him afterwards..;)

LOL

Anyway I should keep schtum in future as my comments can only drive up prices of old luxobarges

sesswhat

galwaytt wrote:

...then you'd better hope all us new-car buyers don't take offence, or, worse, start buying second hand ones......

Why? Easy -for a car to become secondhand, someone has to buy it new, first. So you, sir, are both suffering from 'funnel vision' as well as being rude.

If it wasn't for the likes of (me, kinda..), Unkel would never be able to pick up the yokes he does, for the price he does.....(although we do have to listen to him afterwards..;) ), and nor would anyone else..........

Likewise, Ned & ColmMcm are all feeding your habit..........there isn't a factory I know of punting out used cars.........

As I've already said, there will never be a shortage of people willing to shovel their hard-earned cash at the Government to have a shiny new car.

The rest of us are quite happy to let them take the big hit. Maybe thick is not the word but it's a particularly expensive form of vanity.