what should the Irish military be capable of doing?

OS119

this has come out of a number of threads relating to particular items of equipment, political obvectives, financial considerations, the definitions of sovereignty and neutrality, and all manner of things in between.

what i'm interested in is what Irish people think their military should be capable of in persuit of its domestic and foreign policy objectives (and perhaps what they should be..), rather than the technicalities of this or that system.

to allow greater clarity - and to minimise one word answers - perhaps posters would like to give three examples (one air, one sea and one land) of the kind of operations they feel the Irish armed forces should be able to mount.

just interested.

Dyr

Marching in step would be a start:)



Also: Fielding members who arent morbidly obese for important commemorations

Steyr

Bambi wrote:

Also: Fielding members who arent morbidly obese for important commemorations

Damn right.

cushtac

The DF's goal should be to be in a positon to commit a mechanised battalion, plus the required support elements, to the EU Battlegroup.

Steyr

cushtac wrote:

The DF's goal should be to be in a positon to commit a mechanised battalion, plus the required support elements, to the EU Battlegroup.

Well said Cushtac.:)

How would you compose a Mechanised Batt? What would you use?

armchairninja

i get the feeling that this is going to turn into another big debate on why the army should get a whole load of MBT's that they dont need, the air corps should get a whole load of Fighters and Bombers, That, they dont need and that the navy should get submarines, that, once again they dont need:rolleyes:

OS119

armchairninja wrote:

i get the feeling that this is going to turn into another big debate on why the army should get a whole load of MBT's that they dont need, the air corps should get a whole load of Fighters and Bombers, That, they dont need and that the navy should get submarines, that, once again they dont need:rolleyes:

so give an opinion on the subject, rather than allowing it to become a 12 year olds wish list.

if you actually say what you think it should be able - and not able - to do, it makes it some easier to rufute the 'that looks nice' options put forward.

if you don't take part in the debate you're somewhat unlikely to win it.

Maskhadov

it should be capable of deploying a division overseas.

Clare gunner

How about the most basic?
Defending Ireland from all threats both internal and external?Along with being able to defend Irish intrests/personel on foriegn soil if need be?
Somthing a "neutral" countries armed forces should be well capable of doing.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Bambi wrote:

Also: Fielding members who arent morbidly obese for important commemorations

When was the last time you seen a morbidly obese soldier on a guard of honour?.

Before the present LIFE tests there was a problem in the Defence Forces with alot of over weight soldiers, but that came down to alot of things. The age profile was very high, plus a recruiting embargo which last over ten year's mean't soldiers were committed to a huge workload and phyical training went down the tubes. At the time individual units were responsible for their members doing their IT 1/80's test, so soldiers were 'marked up' for the test.

Sorry, I know this isn't answering the OP's question but I couldn't let that one go unanswered.

As for the question. Cushtac more or less hit the nail on the head, 'at least' a mech battalion with proper support elements, and strong political backing.

Dyr

Around the time they reinterred the bodies of kevin barry et al..there was some right porkers in that kickline

Seem to remember seeing a few last year during the footage of the easter commeration down in limerick if memory serves

BostonB

OS119 wrote:

this has come out of a number of threads relating to particular items of equipment, political obvectives, financial considerations, the definitions of sovereignty and neutrality, and all manner of things in between.

what i'm interested in is what Irish people think their military should be capable of in persuit of its domestic and foreign policy objectives (and perhaps what they should be..), rather than the technicalities of this or that system.

to allow greater clarity - and to minimise one word answers - perhaps posters would like to give three examples (one air, one sea and one land) of the kind of operations they feel the Irish armed forces should be able to mount.

just interested.

Interesting idea but I kinda agree with armchairninja (aptly named btw) I think thats how long is a piece of string discussion as there no limit to what some would like the Irish Defence Forces to be capable of.

How about specific successful threats/attacks, where has it failed to defend Ireland and Irish interests. Potential threats that haven't happened to be specifically excluded. Where it has been successful would also be useful.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Bambi wrote:

Around the time they reinterred the bodies of kevin barry et al..there was some right porkers in that kickline

Seem to remember seeing a few last year during the footage of the easter commeration down in limerick if memory serves

You'd have to jog my memory, no good just writing about it here.

testicle

The roles of the Defence Forces as decided by Government are:

to defend the State against armed aggression; this being a contingency, preparations for its implementation will depend on an on-going Government assessment of the security and defence environment;

to aid the civil power (meaning in practice to assist, when requested, the Garda Síochána, who have primary responsibility for law and order, including the protection of the internal security of the State);

to participate in multinational peace support, crisis management and humanitarian relief operations in support of the United Nations and under UN mandate, including regional security missions authorised by the UN;

to provide a fishery protection service in accordance with the State's obligations as a member of the EU;

to carry out such other duties as may be assigned to them from time to time, e.g. search and rescue, air ambulance service, Ministerial air transport service, assistance on the occasion of natural or other disasters, assistance in connection with the maintenance of essential services, assistance in combating oil pollution at sea.

OS119

ok, heres my attempt...

Local/Internal:

Army. MACP - the capability, with GS and AC helicopter and reece assets, to effectively seal the territorial integrity of the State against internal and external non-state actors, and to provide GS with specialist military capabilities such as EOD/IEDD, hostage rescue/counter-terrorist teams.

Naval Service. to ensure the free passage of both Irish and international vessels in Irish waters, to regulate and protect fishing and mineral exploitation both within territorial waters and within the Economic Zone - and to uphold Irish responsibilties for SAR within Irish designated sea areas. to provide MACP with regards to drug-smuggling, anti-piracy, counter-terrorism, and human trafficing operations.

Air Corps. to provide MACP in the form of reece assets (UAV's?), personnel and cargo transport within the state and its offshore islands in a counter-terrorism role, and to support NS operations with helicopters and MP aircraft.

External/Expeditionary:

Army. to provide to the state one full mechanized infantry battalion Group ( 500 Infantry, 120 Artillery, 120 Cavalry, 120 Combat Engineers, 200 Combat Service Support) available for continuous operations in any climate and location for all Peace Support Operations short of war. alternatively two full infantry battalions, one mech one Light, both with full CS and CSS for PSO's short of war for a period not less that 9 months but not more than 12 with no less than 12 months between Irish deployments.

Naval Service. to provide operational support for Irish forces on PSO deployments - to provide sealift, including amphibious capability, for a full infantry battalion (including one mech company and one cavalry squadron) and its componant CS and CSS and to provide logistical support for 30 days of mid-intensity operations including initial operational basing for Air Corps helicopters and UAV's supporting Army operations worldwide while remaining reasonably self-sufficient in point defence operations - air warfare, mine warfare and surface warfare.

Air Corps. to provide AT, SH and U/AH operations to support one Mech Inf Bn continuously worldwide, or two Inf Bn's for a period of upto 12 months with no less than 12 months between deployments, and to provide UAV's both as an integral part of an Irish Inf Bn's operations and as an asset available to other mandated forces should no Irish ground units be deployed. given 24 hrs notice, the AC should be capable of moving a light infantry company, two motorized infantry platoons, one support weapons platoon, a Combat Engineer platoon, a CSS company, an Air Defence troop, a mobile formation HQ with Signals support and an AC Airfield Operations Squardon with 40 tons of fuel, food, water and ammunition 500 miles to a secured airfield within a further 24hrs. to provide the NS with helicopter support (SH, Reece, Force Protection) as an embarked force worldwide and to ensure that AC transport rotary wing assets can be transported by air by other friendly nations should the need arise.

views?

ex_infantry man

they cud take the enemy on in a game of poker or a cleaning contest coz thats all about wat they do in the army

Hagar

You're now close to being an ex board military forum man.
Consider yourself on the watch list.

ex_infantry man

Hagar wrote:

You're now close to being an ex board military forum man.
Consider yourself on the watch list.

hey i,m telling it how it is my friend, i was in sp coy 3rd inf bn and thats exactly wat the whole battalion did all day was hide in locker rooms playing poker or if not that we would be cleaning

arybvtcw0eolkf

ex_infantry man wrote:

they cud take the enemy on in a game of poker or a cleaning contest coz thats all about wat they do in the army

Regardless if you really were in Sp coy, 3rd Bn the question posted is "What should the Irish military be capable of doing", not what you did as a waster in the 3rd Bn.

ex_infantry man

Mairt wrote:

Regardless if you really were in Sp coy, 3rd Bn the question posted is "What should the Irish military be capable of doing", not what you did as a waster in the 3rd Bn.

ye and there only capable of playing poker, and believe me bud if a war were to break out tomorrow i wud,nt want ta count on the platoon i trained with they were all a pack of selfish little fecks with no respect some of em shud have been kicked out in training

arybvtcw0eolkf

ex_infantry man wrote:

ye and there only capable of playing poker, and believe me bud if a war were to break out tomorrow i wud,nt want ta count on the platoon i trained with they were all a pack of selfish little fecks with no respect some of em shud have been kicked out in training

Before or after you were kicked out?..

I get the impression your stint in the Defence Forces was short, and painful for the lads you worked with.

ex_infantry man

Mairt wrote:

Before or after you were kicked out?..

I get the impression your stint in the Defence Forces was short, and painful for the lads you worked with.

was,nt discharged by them i discharged meself, and anyway shur wat wud u know anyway u don,t know me or the platoon i trained with

OS119

ex_infantry man wrote:

was,nt discharged by them i discharged meself, and anyway shur wat wud u know anyway u don,t know me or the platoon i trained with

i'm assuming that you didn't discharge yourself in order to fulfill a long-held ambition to study the greatness of the English Language at Post-Graduate level....

thank you so very much for turning what should of been an intelligent (but suspiciously ignored) thread looking at the political, economic and strategic circumstances of the Irish state and the consequent requirements placed on the military arm of that state into a impassioned argument for the policy of Post-Natal abortion.

no, i don't want fries, just give me the fcuking burger!

Hagar

ex-infantry man you had a warning.
Dishonourable discharge. (1 week)

OS119 remind me never to cross you...

Steyr

Hagar wrote:

OS119 remind me never to cross you...

I think that goes for all of us.:D

arybvtcw0eolkf

OS119 wrote:

thank you so very much for turning what should of been an intelligent (but suspiciously ignored) thread looking at the political, economic and strategic circumstances of the Irish state and the consequent requirements placed on the military arm of that state into a impassioned argument for the policy of Post-Natal abortion.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

That was brilliant.

irishsurfer

With the danger of getting back on topic:

The elected government decide what the defence forces should do.

The roles of the Defence Forces as decided by Government are:

to defend the State against armed aggression; this being a contingency,
preparations for its implementation will depend on an on-going Government assessment of the security and defence environment;

[and to this I would say should include realistic air defence]

to aid the civil power (meaning in practice to assist, when requested, the Garda Síochána, who have primary responsibility for law and order,
including the protection of the internal security of the State);

to participate in multinational peace support, crisis management and humanitarian relief operations
in support of the United Nations and under UN mandate, including regional security missions authorised by the UN;

to provide a fishery protection service in accordance with the State's obligations as a member of the EU;

to carry out such other duties as may be assigned to them from time to time,
e.g. search and rescue, air ambulance service, Ministerial air transport service,
assistance on the occasion of natural or other disasters, assistance in connection
with the maintenance of essential services, assistance in combating oil pollution at sea.

[I would add to this that I think they are making real progress in maritime affairs, but there should be
consideration given to having two ocean going tugs as auxilliary naval vessels for emergency tow
firefighting, dive support, pollution prevention/cleanup and guardship duties]

cushtac

The question is not what the DF should do, but what it should be capable of doing - there's a difference.

Fratton Fred

cushtac wrote:

The question is not what the DF should do, but what it should be capable of doing - there's a difference.

isn't that a question most defence forces aruond the world are asking though? a defence force gives the impression of an impending invasion, but that is not going to happen. So shouldn't a "defence force" be a highly mobile peace keeping force that can be deployed at a moments notice anywhere in the world?

BostonB

Fratton Fred wrote:

isn't that a question most defence forces aruond the world are asking though? a defence force gives the impression of an impending invasion, but that is not going to happen. So shouldn't a "defence force" be a highly mobile peace keeping force that can be deployed at a moments notice anywhere in the world?

IMO that nice to have not a need to have. I don't object to it but I think there are policing and security issues back at home that need more urgent attention.

Fratton Fred

BostonB wrote:

IMO that nice to have not a need to have. I don't object to it but I think there are policing and security issues back at home that need more urgent attention.

But you don't need an army for that do you? patrol ships looking after the smugglers and fish stocks and a few hundred men to cover anti terror duties back home and you are pretty much there aren't you?