Florida or Waterford?

ambitious guy

Hi all,

I am wondering if anyone has any advice as to the pro's and con's of going to the US to obtain my ATPL for the european airline market. I'm sure I'm not the only one considering such a move (primarly to lessen the financial burden) so I would be delighted for any info that you guy's (and gal's) might have. It seems thats the PTC in Waterford is the best option for aspiring commercial pilots but with an approx. price tag of €70000:eek: it's worth while for me to consider other options. Also can anyone reccommend a good insurance company to cover such training abroad i.e life and medical insurance and loss of licence cover?

Hope that someone can help me out. Thanks

Steyr

Hi one of my friends did it in Florida and loved it and the other guy did it with BAE Systems in Jerez in Spain, the latter being the most expensive, its up to your budget really.

kraggy

Ambitious Guy,

Check out this thread on Waterford:

Makes for some interesting reading.

Some folk none too happy with things down there.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=140585&highlight=waterford

pclancy

Just a thought but surely the weather would be far better for flying in Florida or Spain and you'd get more time in the air? Having said that if they offer a course im sure they must guarantee enough hours to be able to sit your exams...

Steyr

Jerez is half Mil and Civvy my mate got hours on single and Multi Engine Jet AC and Prop Aircraft, he finished and is now with Aer Lingus, i saw some of his pics from Jerez of Spanish F5's and F18's flying alongside him:eek: He also said that even though it was half Civil and half Military that the Military got the priority on Ground and Airborne movements.

jmayo

ambitious guy wrote:

Hi all,

I am wondering if anyone has any advice as to the pro's and con's of going to the US to obtain my ATPL for the european airline market. I'm sure I'm not the only one considering such a move (primarly to lessen the financial burden) so I would be delighted for any info that you guy's (and gal's) might have. It seems thats the PTC in Waterford is the best option for aspiring commercial pilots but with an approx. price tag of €70000:eek: it's worth while for me to consider other options. Also can anyone reccommend a good insurance company to cover such training abroad i.e life and medical insurance and loss of licence cover?

Hope that someone can help me out. Thanks

What exactly does the €70,000 include?
How many hours does it include as well?
I presume you are coming out with Frozen ATPL?
Do PTC have a deal with overseas FTO do provide hour building arrangements?

Are you starting with PPL or from scratch?
Also look at the hiring record, would you be better going to another organisation that has established reputation with airlines etc.

Sorry I know lots of questions but they are all things to think about.

jmayo

Steyr wrote:

Jerez is half Mil and Civvy my mate got hours on single and Multi Engine Jet AC and Prop Aircraft, he finished and is now with Aer Lingus, i saw some of his pics from Jerez of Spanish F5's and F18's flying alongside him:eek: He also said that even though it was half Civil and half Military that the Military got the priority on Ground and Airborne movements.

He probably got hours on Jet flight Simulator and they would be multi-engine.
They have Hawker 800 simulator AFAIK.

Mini

What exactly does the €70,000 include? all flights hours, accommodation, books and stuff loads included best over all package. My OH was looking around at colleges and found this to be the most feasable over all in terms of stuff included in the package
How many hours does it include as well? not 100% sure on the answer to that one - OH says 230
I presume you are coming out with Frozen ATPL? yes,
Do PTC have a deal with overseas FTO do provide hour building arrangements? PPL is done in the states with FSI, then distance learning and PTC

Are you starting with PPL or from scratch?
Also look at the hiring record, would you be better going to another organisation that has established reputation with airlines etc. 98% employed within 2 months - it better be right - my other half has a lot of making up to do as he is off to join them soon !

damo

You've gotta take what you read on pprune with a pinch of salt, in particular that thread about ptc, which is full of people who have little or no experience with the company saying bad things about it. I'm currently enrolled on the 0-atpl course and i can tell you the company is run to a very high professional standard. The only issues i've had have been small administration issues where i must admit, some of the organisation is poor - but only small issues such as organising uniforms etc. But i've found that all of the important things ie. TRAINING! is of the highest quality and is organised properly.

I went to the flight safety academy in florida for 10 weeks and got a ppl & 130 hours flying done. The flight safety academy is one of the top flying schools in america and the training is fantastic. Just be warned though that if you do go with ptc, that 10 weeks in florida is very, very intense and requires alot of hard work on your part.

Anyway to answer some of your questions, you do come out of the course with a frozen atpl and 250 hours.

The hours building is done abroad (see above) at the flight safety academy in florida (ppl + 130 hours)

As far as i'm aware 40% of ptc graduates have gone to aer arann and 40% have gone to ryanair, whilst the other 20% have gone to various other airlines.

To be honest the prospect of working for Ryanair isnt exactly the most appealing, but you will gain 3000 hours and a 737 type rating (which you have to pay for yourself) within about 4 years, at which point you can start applying to fly for the big boys - not too bad eh?


P.S

i know ptc are in negotiations at the moment with flight safety to send its students back over there to do the multi engine instrument rating, theyre just being held up by some red tape involving training with the JAA meir syllabus in the states....as soon as they get that sorted theyre hoping to get both the ppl and meir done at flightsafety, great news as far as im concerned!

jmayo

damo wrote:

You've gotta take what you read on pprune with a pinch of salt, in particular that thread about ptc, which is full of people who have little or no experience with the company saying bad things about it. I'm currently enrolled on the 0-atpl course and i can tell you the company is run to a very high professional standard. The only issues i've had have been small administration issues where i must admit, some of the organisation is poor - but only small issues such as organising uniforms etc. But i've found that all of the important things ie. TRAINING! is of the highest quality and is organised properly.

I went to the flight safety academy in florida for 10 weeks and got a ppl & 130 hours flying done. The flight safety academy is one of the top flying schools in america and the training is fantastic. Just be warned though that if you do go with ptc, that 10 weeks in florida is very, very intense and requires alot of hard work on your part.

Anyway to answer some of your questions, you do come out of the course with a frozen atpl and 250 hours.

The hours building is done abroad (see above) at the flight safety academy in florida (ppl + 130 hours)

As far as i'm aware 40% of ptc graduates have gone to aer arann and 40% have gone to ryanair, whilst the other 20% have gone to various other airlines.

To be honest the prospect of working for Ryanair isnt exactly the most appealing, but you will gain 3000 hours and a 737 type rating (which you have to pay for yourself) within about 4 years, at which point you can start applying to fly for the big boys - not too bad eh?


P.S

i know ptc are in negotiations at the moment with flight safety to send its students back over there to do the multi engine instrument rating, theyre just being held up by some red tape involving training with the JAA meir syllabus in the states....as soon as they get that sorted theyre hoping to get both the ppl and meir done at flightsafety, great news as far as im concerned!

Please do not write off PPRUNE. Yes there are the anti.s on there but also beware of the pros who tell you the place (whatever one they discussing) is the most fantastic under the sun. Do not believe half of what you read about any place and you will probably break even.
PPL plus 130 hours in 10 weeks does not seem about right.
Does that include any further training?
Is it 130 hrs including 45 odd for ppl?

Don't bank on the JAA training at FS being straghtened out that soon, beaucracy works very slowly in aviation.
Where do they do the multi at the moment?

damo

jmayo wrote:

Please do not write off PPRUNE. Yes there are the anti.s on there but also beware of the pros who tell you the place (whatever one they discussing) is the most fantastic under the sun. Do not believe half of what you read about any place and you will probably break even.
PPL plus 130 hours in 10 weeks does not seem about right.
Does that include any further training?
Is it 130 hrs including 45 odd for ppl?

Don't bank on the JAA training at FS being straghtened out that soon, beaucracy works very slowly in aviation.
Where do they do the multi at the moment?

I wasnt writing off pprune, ive gone there many times to read up about certain things and to ask advice about things, its an excellent resource. However you do come across alot of BS on there too, and that thread about ptc in particular was very harsh in my opinion, and the criticism was coming from people who have never trained there.

What doesnt seem right about ppl & 130 hours in 10 weeks? It is 130 hours including ppl, which took me 45 hours. Its intense, and most students from ptc dont manage to get all the 130 hours done in that time. The american students there do the same amount in 2-3 times the time we did it in.

The multi is done down at waterford airport at the moment, they just got a sim in, and they have two seminoles.

electric69

ambitious guy wrote:

Hi all,

I am wondering if anyone has any advice as to the pro's and con's of going to the US to obtain my ATPL for the european airline market.

Fixed wing or rotorcraft? Im just back from florida myself.Just after spending 6 weeks out there doing flight training.i loved every moment of it.The weather was great most of the time.Only thing that you will need to consider is the weather at the moment.Its usually sunny mornings and then thunderstorms in the afternoon,then clear evenings, then lightening storms at night.It goes like clockwork. I would definately choose Florida over Ireland anyday.Cant wait to get back again!

jmayo

damo wrote:

I wasnt writing off pprune, ive gone there many times to read up about certain things and to ask advice about things, its an excellent resource. However you do come across alot of BS on there too, and that thread about ptc in particular was very harsh in my opinion, and the criticism was coming from people who have never trained there.

What doesnt seem right about ppl & 130 hours in 10 weeks? It is 130 hours including ppl, which took me 45 hours. Its intense, and most students from ptc dont manage to get all the 130 hours done in that time. The american students there do the same amount in 2-3 times the time we did it in.

The multi is done down at waterford airport at the moment, they just got a sim in, and they have two seminoles.

Sorry typo in there.
I have known guys doing hour building that flew 5 hours a day seven days a week. i.e. 5 x 6 = 30 per week = 300 for 10 weeks.
But that was not doing training and studying for exms etc.
Actually they got really bored doing particular routes. They left out The Keys since fuel used to be very dear there and would have to refuel.

Those thuderstorms produce beautiful light shows at night and it also helps cool the blooming place down.
Not nice to get caught in one or even near one but there are enough airfields to make for if conditions get bad.