[US/IRL] 3X22 - "Through the Looking Glass" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

MikeHoncho

9

Amazing. One of the best 2 hours of television I have ever seen. Charlies death was handled sooo well. I know most people hate him but Matthew Foxs performance was just stunning in this episode. Need some time for it all to sink in.

Spiritus Mundi#

9

MikeHoncho wrote:

I know most people hate him but Matthew Foxs performance was just stunning in this episode.

Here here. brilliant.

As for the Christian thing its really a simple equation : the writers gave us plenty of talking points in the finale and most definitely 1 was designed to be "is christian dead"? answer - yes he is dead of course. But what Damon Lindelof has said on occasion leaves the possibility to have an alternative theory in the context of the island and the overall payoff - He wants us discussing Jacob, provoking thought on Christian n Yemmi and other 'dead characters' appearing on island. Smoke monster? something spiritual?

man1

4

tvnutz wrote:

no offense mate but serves ye right for buying the Irish sun!

Have to agree with tvnutz there, didnt think any boardies bought the sun!!!
Come on now, "the sun"!!!!

man1

4

Robin1982 wrote:

I guess I'm the only one who thinks the guy in the coffin was Michael.

Seemed like a black neighbourhood, "neither friend nor family", no one else turned up cause he betrayed everyone. Probably killed himself cause Walt ("ma boy") will be forever stuck on the Island (for whatever reason).

WTF????

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

9

uh.. yeah, there were quite a few black people around iirc.

what exactly was your problem there?

Royale with Cheese

9

Racist!!!!!

man1

4

jor el wrote:

Who was in the coffin though? I took it to be Sawyer anyway because Jack rang Kate as soon as he read about it but couldn't say much to her. I'm guessing that between Jack making the call on the sat phone and them getting off, that Sawyer had a bust up with everyone else, or at least Kate. He had no family left behind anyway (other than a pregnant mark) and the only people he knew were on the island. If he and a bust up with them all then none would be likely to come to his funeral. Jack thought that maybe Kate would be there since she had a fling with him. The new person in Kate's life could be anyone, not necessarily someone from the island.

The only other person I could think of who's funeral no one would turn up to would be Ben. But Kate wouldn't be likely to turn up to that either so that to me is a no go.

Plenty to think about, but still not a very good ending.

Not sure if it is ben or even sawyer but it is someone very important, why was there a fairly large article about his/her death in the newspaper, it wasnt a death notice with a line or two about funeral details, it was like an obituary about 1/4 of the top half of the paper. Also if it was in the La times then it was important because why wasnt it in a local newspaper like there equivalent of the northside people or the wexford people. The La Times is a massive paper and would be like the times or independent here.

But it begs the question of why was it he/she was so important to have an article about them but not important enough to have mourners at their funeral???

man1

4

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

Someone said 'how did Charlie find that exact frequency to transmit on?' The message was incoming, not outgoing. So it was just that when the jamming was stopped the message got through.

True but why was penny there straightaway, was it a coincidence that she was trying to contact the island at that exact time or has she been sitting at her computer without a break trying to send a signal for the last 93 (or whatever)days.

man1

4

chabsey wrote:

I just watched that scene a couple of times again and can't hear Ben talking off screen to tell them not to actually shoot them. Is it during the same scene where Jack beats him up at the end?

No he told them when there were no cameras or crew around
He didnt want them to hear either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Necronomicon

8

basquille wrote:

Yep.. asked the same question about a page or so back:

See here!

Could be just Jack completely outta it? The overall feeling i got from the flashbacks was "Jack has lost his FRIGGIN' MIND!"

I mentioned it earlier, I think it was a way for the writers to make sure that nobody was copping onto the fact that it was a future-flash. It can be chalked up to Jack's drunkeness.

Anybody read the interview posted earlier in the thread?

Interesting point, the part of Jacob apparently hasn't been cast yet. Does that dispell the theories about it being Locke and Christian Sheperd? Doesn't really make sense, since we saw a flash of a man.

kronsington

7

you can check out what was written in ben's diary here

http://www.thetailsection.com/lost-news/lost-finale-analysis-the-journ.php

ZiabR

5

kronsington wrote:

you can check out what was written in ben's diary here

http://www.thetailsection.com/lost-news/lost-finale-analysis-the-journ.php

Nice, thanks for the link.

johnny_ultimate

8

Thought that was truly a terrific episode. Havent a clue what it all means, but cannot wait until next season.
*prepares for eight month wait *
A game changer truly. I honestly think the structure and timeline of the show will completely change next season.
Edit: A thought: What did Desmond really see in his flash foward last week?
Further edit, as I don't have the energy to read all 11 pages: THE TEMPLE?

Mr.Nice Guy

8

Terrific episode. I give it a 9. Charlie's exit was fantastically well done. I never really liked the character yet I had tears in my eyes by the end of it. Damn those Lost writers are good.

Nothing much else to say for now except what the f*ck does it all mean??????

PS Happy 21st Birthday to me.

Hypnotoad

9

Thats my favourite episode so far.
The Charlie scene was great,he was my favourite though

Anima

9

Interesting point, the part of Jacob apparently hasn't been cast yet. Does that dispell the theories about it being Locke and Christian Sheperd? Doesn't really make sense, since we saw a flash of a man.

It does really though. The average viewer isn't going to freeze frame and alter the brightness/contrast to get a better idea of who it is. To most viewers, all they know is that there was a guy in the seat, showing that Jacob does exist. The actor used was just a placeholder until the actual Jacob is brought into the show.

Its the same with Sylar in Heroes. The guy that was used initially looked similar but it was obvious it wasn't the Sylar we know now.

Mitch Connor

Charlie's death was a bleedin joke. He could easily have escaped that without dying. no need for that at all - they could have made it at least make sense.

johnny_ultimate

8

Tauren wrote:

Charlie's death was a bleedin joke. He could easily have escaped that without dying. no need for that at all - they could have made it at least make sense.

But it was the only way to be certain that Desmond would survive, so impulsively he closed the door just to avoid the chance that they wouldnt both be able to get out in time. Or something.
Sad moment though. Charlie (accept for that brief 'mad' period last season) was one of my favourites.

Mr.Nice Guy

8

Tauren wrote:

Charlie's death was a bleedin joke. He could easily have escaped that without dying. no need for that at all - they could have made it at least make sense.

Charlie had to die in order to get Claire and Aaron off the island. Do you not remember the scene with Desmond and Charlie on the beach...

"We're getting bloody rescued! I thought you were going to tell me I was going to die again!"

"You are, Charlie."

"Wait, what?"

"If you don't, none of it will happen. There won't be any rescue. I'm sorry, brother, but this time, this time you have to die."

Pretty straightforward.

podge018

Did Jack's father write him that prescription and was the pharmacist going to ring him? If so, then he's still alive. Or was Jack just lying that his father wrote it?

marie_85

8

I gave the episode a 9, but on reflection wish I'd given it a lower mark. There were some truly excellent scenes in it, but the ending was a huge disappointment.

Maybe I'm just used to the writers of Lost trying to mess with our heads, because I guessed from the first flash forward that it was the future, and each subsequent one just confirmed it. It just seems that the writers have no subtlety, they made it far too obvious what was going on. Aside from the fact Jack had a beard and a drink and drugs problem, and a nervousness about flying, there was the snazzy phone and the fact he had greying hair. And don't even get me started on the whole sense of 'irony' that they tried to produce. Ooh, Jack with his father issues has turned out exactly like his father - how original.

Aside from the Jack scenes, and yes I am very bitter over how his character has been handled. He started off as such a strong character, now I just want him to get off my screen but anyhoo - aside from the Jack scenes, the rest of the episode was pretty good. Loved Charlie's death, although I do wonder why he didn't just swim out the window. Oh, and for the love of god, would Mikhail just die already! Sorry to see Tom go, but liked Sawyer's line before shooting him.

Again, knew that Tom and the others hadn't really shot Sayid, Jin or Bernard. And what a surprise, another ambush plan of Sayid's failed. He may be intelligent and have a sixth sense for when somebody is lying, but his military skills really need to be worked on.

The appearance of Waaalt - thanks producers for putting his name in the opening credits. This does lead me to wonder however if he has died off island - because so far Ben's mother, Jack's father, Eko's brother have all appeared as visions and they all died off the island. It was nice to see that Vincent is still with the Losties.

The temple - looks like we'll be getting some sort of story surrounding the four toed statue soon. Looking forward to that.

Bit disappointed with what they are doing with the character of Ben. I'm not enjoying seeing him as another fallible human and not the criminal mastermind I thought he was. He was very diminished in this episode, things seem to be falling apart around him.

Hmm... I know I just posted a lot of complaints about the episode... Things I liked... Hurley and Sawyer's dismissal of him, Desmond, Locke about to commit suicide, Danielle's reunion with Alex, Charlie's death although I will miss him and 'YOU AAALLLL EVERYBODY'.

leninbenjamin

6

there wasn't enough of a climax feel to the finale. it just felt like watching any other episode of the series (bar the flashforward of course)

another thing. the flashforward thing really really sucked. it was too slow, not enough happened and pretty much everything we gained out of it had been hinted at before as far as i can tell. it really messed with the pace of the episode for me, and made me hate jack's character so much that i was hoping locke shoot him (even though i had guessed it was in the future)

the real question for me is in terms of pacing now. could that scene be the chronological finish of the entire show? jack seems to be so far down a certain "path" in that flashthingy that it surely has to be at least a few years between then and "now". will they skip massive chunks of time to explain what happens after it? can they resolve this effectively without drastically altering the show?

and i didn't like Charlie's suicide, thought his death could have been done better.

Bounty Hunter

9

having just rewatched some of the finale on sky it struck me how Mikhail couldent have been more than a foot or two away when the grenade went off. Although im sure he's fine afterall he survived being fried and a harpoon to the heart already.

Bartronilic

7

What is the "runway" i wonder? And its pretty obvious that Penelope only asked "where is the island?" to double check it was the one desmond was on. The whole point of the Season 2 finale is that she found the island....

ixoy

I enjoyed it but am annoyed that I guessed the twist within the first ten seconds - the greying beard is a common trick to make actors look older. The more I saw, the more that got confirmed.

Reckon it was Ben in the coffin, even if it was short. Reckon that, without the healing calm of the island that his cancer returned and killed him. Only Jack went because Jack's the one who realised that Ben was right.
And I'm guessing FutureKate ended up with Sawyer. FutureSawyer is not a nice man having gone down a dark road that begun with the cold-blooded shooting of Tom.

Not sure how much I'd like lots of "flash forwards". It makes the future seem inevitable in certain ways and there's a certain irritation in that. Hopefully a one-off device but I expect we'll see it a lot more in season four.

As to the rest...
Mostly good stuff. Thought Ben's fake shooting of the captives was weak as it wasn't believable for a second (you would never kill 3 main characters off screen like that). Still it was well executed otherwise and shows how much Ben really believes that this is a Big Mistake.

Jack was an arrogant sod again even if it does make sense for him to ignroe Locke and Ben His future self shows just how little his character has learnt about not being an ass.

Liked most of the other stuff - Charlie did the right thing for once. Now it doesn't really make sense to me the logic of had to lock the door although I understand why he did it. Still it stops him whining next year so I guess I should ignore the physics angle of it

Also really loved the musical piece when all the Losties were marching away from the beach. Nice epic feel.

Overall, it's worth an 8. Also, can some posters here please stop saying that you don't "get" Lost unles you award episodes 9 or 10? Seriously, it's highly irritating when you're being taken down for criticisng faults. Although giving this episode a 1 or 2 is clearly insane

MOH

When I first saw it was Jack meeting Kate, figured it was Sawyer in the coffin. But then when she said "he'll be wondering where I am" that she was going home to Sawyer, so it was Ben.

But on re-watching it, I got the impression she was talking about going home to a child, so I reckon it is Sawyer in the coffin. Remember his reaction when she said she might be pregnant? If he left her with the kid, can understand her reaction when Jack says he thought she might go.

Gf reckons "Good Vibrations" was the song playing when we first saw Desmond in the hatch, at the start of S2. I can't remember. Anyone know?

Was anyone else yelling at Charlie when he said to Desmond, "right you go get the scuba gear, I'll just go ahead and flick this switch which will get me drowned." Could he not have put the gear on first?!

Mikhail a bit annoying. OK, there was an explanation for him surviving the fence, but a harpoon through the heart? Any how the hell di dhe manage to sneak around and get into the scuba gear without Desmond knowing? Plus where did the grenade come from?!

Basq

MOH wrote:

Gf reckons "Good Vibrations" was the song playing when we first saw Desmond in the hatch, at the start of S2. I can't remember. Anyone know?

Nah.. that was Mama Cass 'Make Your Own Kind Of Music'

Paligulus

During the Jack flashforward, did he remind anybody else of when ron Burgendy goes off the rails in anchorman after telling San Diago to go **** yourself?!!!!!

MILK WAS A BAD CHOICE!!!!!!!

Mitch Connor

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Charlie had to die in order to get Claire and Aaron off the island. Do you not remember the scene with Desmond and Charlie on the beach...



Pretty straightforward.

And he was perfectly happy to walk out having not died just moments earlier.

MOH

basquille wrote:

Nah.. that was Mama Cass 'Make Your Own Kind Of Music'

Thanks.

Basq

Mr Nice Guy wrote:

Charlie had to die in order to get Claire and Aaron off the island. Do you not remember the scene with Desmond and Charlie on the beach...

Tauren wrote:

And he was perfectly happy to walk out having not died just moments earlier.

I think it was that combined with the risk of having the station flooded and Desmond drowning knowing he just saw that Penny was searching for him.

MOH

basquille wrote:

I think it was that combined with the risk of having the station flooded and Desmond drowning knowing he just saw that Penny was searching for him.

Given Desmond had seen the station flood, why didn't *he* put the scuba gear on before Charlie pushed the button.

In fact, even after the porthole blew, if he'd thrown it on Charlie could've opened the hatch.

Also, the previous ep was a bit pointless - wouldn't Charlies list of greatest hits have been ruined hwen Desmond dived down to the hatch?

Basq

MOH wrote:

Given Desmond had seen the station flood, why didn't *he* put the scuba gear on before Charlie pushed the button.

Because Charlie called to Desmond after seeing Penny.. we saw Desmond at the scuba gear when he was called. He was hardly gonna say "hold on while i put on this scuba gear and waddle me arse over there!"

MOH wrote:

In fact, even after the porthole blew, if he'd thrown it on Charlie could've opened the hatch.

Hardly had enough time to throw on the scuba gear - you ever try to put that stuff on? Not typically a quick feat!

Sam Vimes

ixoy wrote:

FutureSawyer is not a nice man having gone down a dark road that begun with the cold-blooded shooting of Tom.

i'd say it started when he strangled locke's dad

6th

8

Great episode but everytime I saw a flashforward with Jack I thought of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF8UsrDUrWM

MOH

basquille wrote:

Because Charlie called to Desmond after seeing Penny.. we saw Desmond at the scuba gear when he was called. He was hardly gonna say "hold on while i put on this scuba gear and waddle me arse over there!"

No, I mean Desmond had a vision of the place flooding when the jammer was turned off. Given that he was there himself, would he not say to Charlie before he went near the console "hold on a sec, lets throw on this handy scuba gear before you go and drown the two of us"

basquille wrote:

Hardly had enough time to throw on the scuba gear - you ever try to put that stuff on? Not typically a quick feat!

Even less easy for a one-eyed man with a harpoon sticking out of his heart!!

mad m

9

When season 4 starts I bet Desmond will wake up from one of his flashes and tell jack that Naomi is not who she claims to be after seeing what charlie wrote on his hand,that whole 2hours was Desmond having one....I'm waiting for Bobby Ewing to pop out from shower next time also.

Head wrecker of a programme.

Mitch Connor

basquille wrote:

Because Charlie called to Desmond after seeing Penny.. we saw Desmond at the scuba gear when he was called. He was hardly gonna say "hold on while i put on this scuba gear and waddle me arse over there!"


Hardly had enough time to throw on the scuba gear - you ever try to put that stuff on? Not typically a quick feat!

But Desmond did not go over cause charlie called him, he went over cause zombie guy was missing. Charlie called him a few times, but desmond didn't head over until he heard that banging noise and saw zombie guy had gone.

FitzerP

9

I think it was an excellent episode i gave it a 10...
had me on the edge of my seat..and literally shouting /cheering at the
the telly..brilliant all round

Now theres one thing that i dont think has been mentioned yet!!

Rememeber when locke was down in the death pit, about to blow his face off...


Well does anyone remember seeing a really weird flouresent lighting effect on his gunshot wound..in fact it looked a bit like it had healed and and was now
just a tear on his jersey...

My flat mate noticed it too, so i don't think im gone mad .....

cheers!

bogmanfan

Yeah, I noticed that too. Is Locke an alien, with crazy blood?:D

Snake Plisken

9

and didn't Juliette make a joke about the runway was being built for Aliens to land

squire1

He looked particularly healthy for a guy that had been shot in the chest and lay in a ditch with rotting bodies for a couple of days.

I've given up trying to figure out what is going on in this show and now just sit back and enjoy each episode. Too many "W.T.F!" moments to keep track of them.

I did enjoy Ben getting a few slaps from Jack but I thought and hoped he was going to do it when Ben first showed up. I would have. Letting Ben talk first will always be a bad idea.

Hurley is a star and it was his first good episode for a while. "I saved them all"

Great drama last night but jeeez, Jack should learn to relax a bit. He takes it all too seriously. It's only a TV show after all.;)

JeanClaude

8

doh.ie wrote:

Last thing, which is partly coming from Lost: The Answers, the S3 special that aired before the finale. Adam and Eve in Season 1's caves. Who's betting on those two being Jack and Kate in some kind of future/past timeloop whereby they do actually get back and our last scene in the series itself might be their return to the island and settling down in the cave for the night?

Doh.ie which specific season 1 episode(not the special) is that on?

LFCFan

8

Excellent Finale. Loved every bit of it. I reckoned the flash forward was after Jack's missus had left him and he'd shopped his Dad and his life sucked.

Why is everyone so convinced that the Flash forward definitely has to happen? Why couldn't it be a possible future based on the events currently taking place on the island but things change and a different future happens?

Also, if the people on the boat are bad, why would they rescue any of the Losties? It must have all been official as Jack is back in the hospital and he has a Golden Pass from Oceanic.

Can't wait for Season 4!!!

Snake Plisken

9

Well having watched it again on Sky last night have to say its such a great episode, it should be nominated for an Emmy as should Mattew Fox's performance. Now additional things I picked out on second viewing.

1) Jack likes a glass of the black stuff If you look in his sink beside the half eaten crossaint there is an empty bottle of Guinness.
2) Penny asks Charlie how did you get this frequency, so the console seemed to be pre-programmed with it, which says to me that it was meant to broadcast to Dharma Corp.
3) The coffin looking at it from up top the coffin looked small, but when you see it from an angle it looks like a full size adult coffin.
4) The episode had two attempted suicides by both Jack and Locke.

Anyway just said I'd point out some of the things I'd missed on first viewing.

snake

Aldebaran

7

The second I saw that beard I just knew it was a flash-forward, which kind of ruined the entire episode for me, it was kind of like reading a spoiler (which I go out of my way to never, ever do).

If I hadn't figured it out it would have been an amazing episode but the writers made it so blatently obvious, I can't believe some people didn't cop it.

Still, it had it's moments, I liked Bernard's line "I am a dentist, I am not Rambo", and Sawyer's "That's for taking the boy off the raft". Brilliant.

Plus Charlie's death/suicide, might have been unnecessary but it certainly was poignant, "Not Penny's boat", the little nod to Des, blessing himself before he died; might possibly be Lost's "Best. Death. Ever."

Bringing Walt back was just plain stupid, stupid, stupid! And putting his name in the credits just took the biscuit in terms of stupidity.

Why didn't Locke shoot Jack? Maybe the gun didn't work, it has been lying in a pit for a number of years after all, and maybe he didn't kill Naomi, I don't think we actually saw him throw the knife.

I'm not sure I like the idea of having flash-forwards but it certainly was a brave thing for the writer's to do, we'll just have to wait until next year to see if it works.

Dissapointing finale, still gets 8/10 though, and I still love Lost!!

Osk

9

Aldebaran wrote:

but the writers made it so blatently obvious, I can't believe some people didn't cop it.

I can't believe that I didn't cop it - I did remark on Jack's mobile phone and was surprised at such an obvious prop mistake :rolleyes: I am remarkably dim when it comes to sussing out what is happening in Lost though - thank god for these threads to fill me in on what is obvious once I read it :cool:

I really enjoyed the finale - disappointed at the ending at the time but now that I have copped the flash forwards, it makes more sense....

Roll on Jan '08!

Newaglish

7

After reading all the posts there a couple of theories I have!

Desmond's vision:
I think alot of people assume that something about his vision was not quite true - my theory? He saw Charlie push the button, the station flood and then Charlie dies. The bit about the rescue, I think is a lie. I think what Desmond saw was Charlie speaking with Penny and telling them they were alive, Desmond was ther etc. He made up the story about the rescue so that Charlie would be more convinced to do it. Perhaps that's why Desmond wanted to change places?

The coffin:
Can't figure out who is there. Jack seemed quite upset about the whole thing, even suicidal. But why, then, would nobody go to the funeral? Perhaps it was Ben, and the reason Jack was upset was that Ben was (will be?!?!) the only person able to bring them back to the island.

Going back to the island:
Why does Jack want to go back to the island so badly? We know that the general public knows of his return; the free plane tickets etc. Doesn't someone refer to him as being "A hero twice over"? Also, the guy in the pharmacy refers to Jack as "that hero" with a lot of respect, more than is warranted for a simple car-save thing. And if i'm not mistaken, the news report said something like "Unknown man rescues two in car crash", so people wouldn't know that was Jack.

I think there are two possiblities here:

1) Only some of the losties made it back. In order to get back home, some great sacrifice had to be made, likely in the form of leaving a good lot of people behind. Thus, Jack would want to go back to either save them (assume they're still alive) or to exact revenge (assuming they're dead).

2) The losties have discovered the "unusual properties" of the island, and whatever they are, it's enough to make living there pretty damn good. Eternal life? Health? Happiness? Evangeline Lilly in a bikini? This may actually be a likely scenario also, given what Ben said about Jack having nothing to go back to.

silvine

6

I have kind of given up on Lost this season but I figured I'd watch the season finale and I must say.... I was impressed.

The ending was quite clever - the forward flash was a nice twist on the usual Lost formula and was up on season's two finale. Chaaaarlie's death was nicely handled too - clearly the window was too small for him to swim out people. There were some great lines of dialogue including "That's for taking the boy off the raft".

Certain characters are very watchable (Desmond brother I'm looking at you) and some (SOME) of the questions about the island are finally being answered.

I'm still not a huge Lost fan, I find Jack a little grating (although alco-druggy Jack was good) and the writers can be too clever for their own good e.g. polar bears and the every growing number of hatches.

However, I will watch next season's opening episode out of curiosity.

Anti

******* episode confused the **** out of me.....

Why must i continue to watch this? Is it the hope that kate might get the puppies out? or that lock will go postal and eat Jin.

Hmmm.... maybe.