Double Tracking

Paligulus

hi folks,
Just something I wanted throw out there about double tracking....

Up until now I have been double tracking vocals the following ways (In cubase):
-Actually double tracking it!!!! Cycling takes and panning 2 different takes.
-Using Delay FX. Set up a delay FX track at a low speed (30ms?) and send the vocal to the delay track and pan it.
-Editing the vocal track with Melodyne (shhhh!!!) and panning the original and edited version L+R.


I was just wondering if you use any other methods, preferably without plugins. What I have in mind is duplicating a track and then setting start time a few milliseconds before/after the originsl track. Is this commonly done? Or would it cause too much phase? What would be the quickest way in Cubase?

Cheers,
Dave

frobisher

Record the track, right click the channel, select duplicate track. Then follow A or B.
A/ The easy way: When the track is selected, up in the top right hand corner are three horizontal sliders, level, pan and delay. You can either slide the delay one or type in any amount. For the details you're after I'd say you should type in small amounts.

B/ The manual way: Put Cubase in seconds and minutes mode as opposed to bars and beats, make sure the snap feature is off, stretch out the viewing bar so that everything is in great detail and manually move the audio of the duplicated track with the mouse tiny amounts while listening to both tracks being played back.

I would personally then follow this by either locking the channels or adding small amounts onto them so they are both the same size and fit perfectly within the grid structure. This way they will snap together if you move them and still be in perfect sync.

ogy

use a short delay time like you mentioned but modulate the delay by 1hz or less. this is the method john lennon used

multiple takes is probably the best way though. they don't always have to be panned either, you could have one main track and tuck another 2 underneath it in the centre. or else have one in the centre and two either side. double-tracking doesn't have to be just 2 tracks

Niall - Dahlia

Experiment with delay, flange and pitch shift, all in very small amounts to keep things natural. Nothing beats actually doing a real double track though.

And I second what ogy's saying about not having to pan the vocals. When I double track vocals it's always to layer them together for a thicker sound.

Paligulus

Cheers for the replies folks.

The easy way: When the track is selected, up in the top right....

This is exactly what I was looking for!!! Kind of sickened I didnt spot it before!!
I had been messing around witn "B\ the manual way..." but I found it very hit and miss.

I was actually happy with the results I was getting with Delay plugs but I just wanted to find a way that uses less CPU!!!!

use a short delay time like you mentioned but modulate the delay by 1hz or less. this is the method john lennon used

wasn't it the Beatles engineer who came up with ADT (automatic double tracking) because the beatles were sick of having to actually record a second track?!!! I love that effect on Lennons voice. It really suits his voice (not neccassarily everybodys though)

And I second what ogy's saying about not having to pan the vocals. When I double track vocals it's always to layer them together for a thicker sound.

Well I dont just hard pan all the vocal tracks but I see what your saying. I try and group vocal tracks together in the different stereo space. Like for the main vocal, I might do a harmony of the main vocal, and even though it sounds a bit ropey on its own I'll tuck it behind the main vocal in the centre but have its volume set so its more 'sensed' than heard. For more 'confidant' backing vocals I'll set them 50-70% L+R.

Actually, messing around it with vocal tracks is probably one of the more enjoyable (if sometimes frustrating) elements of mixing!!!

Cheers

Dave

Paligulus

Experiment with delay, flange and pitch shift

Melodyne can be usefull for making backing vocals that I could never have sung. You can't beat a chorus of vocals with main, 3rd above, 5th above and octave above all in harmony!!!!!!!!

ogy

yeh thats what i heard too about the ADT thing. I tried it recently and in very small amounts it thickened up the vocal track really nicely and subtley without sounding obviously lennon-esque. Gets very lennony above 1hz though.

after recording your vocal (or after making a composite track from several takes:) listen back to it a few times for the little nuances and try and do about two more takes as close to that one as possible. Tucking in these second two takes in the centre underneath the main vocal really thickens out your main vocal sound and as far as i know doing this to the extreme and at several stereo positions is how the likes of beyonce and christina and all make there pristine vocal tracks (poor girls have to sing the same thing over and over and over...) Just like what you were taking about with the harmony but with the same line again instead.

a good rule of thumb for that 'sensed' rather than heard idea is, bring it up to a level you can just about hear it properly and then knock 3db off it.

not sure but i think maybe niall meant using really minute pitch shifts to thicken the vocal sound like a synthesizer does

Niall - Dahlia

ogy wrote:

not sure but i think maybe niall meant using really minute pitch shifts to thicken the vocal sound like a synthesizer does

Yes! Just a few percent sharp or flat.

Alot of the time it comes down to the performer too. Some singers can just nail a double track absolutely perfectly every time. I'd rather try a few takes naturally double tracking before resorting to ADT. But yeah, on the other hand it can be fun modulating vocals!

Paligulus

after recording your vocal (or after making a composite track from several takes...

Its definately you could get obsessive about if you were doing your own vocals!!! Walls of vocals. Next thing you know, you're Def Leppard!!!
If you were using the delay method in Cubase with the Delay slider, what time would you be talking about for thickening. I'm guessing anything between 1-30MS?

Yes! Just a few percent sharp or flat.

Never heard of or even considered this!!! Interesting. I suppose I always think of my original vocal as the pitch shifted one and then Melodyne makes the proper track!!!!

I reckon I need to ditch my puny main vocals and have 3 vocals at slightly different delay speeds and then 3 more vocals on top of that with slightly different pitch shifts!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

Paligulus

I'm getting some good results with that delay function in Cubase. Without having my CPU usage sapped my plugs too!!!

It also works good if you take the BPM you are using for your song and then divide this number into 60,000 and then divide this number by multiples of 2 to get the desired delay time. Good ole Recording Engineers Handbook!!!!!