protest vote: spoil or don't bother?

Crash

Sorry, all those saying spoiling your vote doesnt matter, the only person who will know is you - **** that.

The point of spoiling your vote is that you are casting a vote of dissatisfaction. this is shown by the difference between the full poll and the valid poll. its an important number, and is worth paying attention to.

and you know what, even if it isnt worth anything, I know I will respect any person I know more who votes and spoils rather than stays at home. because it shows that even though they felt disaffected by it, they didnt feel apathetic. and you know, thats a very important difference.

Dero

I presume he gave his number one to one candidate, but recored no further preferences, which is a perfectly valid vote.

EDIT: Re Raiser's post above ^^

Gobán Saor

Raiser wrote:

Nobody knows what you did in that booth.

But if you "didn't go for any 2,3,4 etc" and "tick[ed] the box" for the "them" you felt might make a difference then, you Sir would have spoilt your vote :eek:

But perhaps I'm reading this wrong and making too many presumptions and assumptions.

A tick against a single candidate is generally accepted by returning officers as an "expression of preference" by the voter and is valid.

one-angry-dwarf

Raiser wrote:

Nobody knows what you did in that booth.

But if you "didn't go for any 2,3,4 etc" and "tick[ed] the box" for the "them" you felt might make a difference then, you Sir would have spoilt your vote :eek:

But perhaps I'm reading this wrong and making too many presumptions and assumptions.

i might be wrong but are you assuming i 'ticked the box'? i didn't, i put a '1' in it! sorry if its worded wrong.

Dave!

&#231 wrote: »

Sorry, all those saying spoiling your vote doesnt matter, the only person who will know is you - **** that.

The point of spoiling your vote is that you are casting a vote of dissatisfaction. this is shown by the difference between the full poll and the valid poll. its an important number, and is worth paying attention to.

What do you mean by "the difference between the full poll and the valid poll"?

&#231 wrote: »

and you know what, even if it isnt worth anything, I know I will respect any person I know more who votes and spoils rather than stays at home. because it shows that even though they felt disaffected by it, they didnt feel apathetic. and you know, thats a very important difference.

Well just because somebody stayed at home doesn't mean they were apathetic. If you spoil your vote it doesn't make a difference to who gets elected; same with staying at home. If you don't feel drawn to any of the candidates, and don't want to vote for the lesser of the evils, then staying at home is just as valid as spoiling your vote.

Raiser

Good - to be honest, you were already angry when you were merely democratically disillusioned and self-disenfranchised, had you accidentally spoilt your vote I'd have logged off and hidden under my bed in terror regardless of your diminutive stature :eek:

Dave!

Raiser wrote:

Good - to be honest, you were already angry when you were merely democratically disillusioned and self-disenfranchised, had you accidentally spoilt your vote I'd have logged off and hidden under my bed in terror regardless of your diminutive stature :eek:

There is an extremely excessive magnitude of elongated and perplexing linguistic characters in your contribution! :eek:

Pherekydes

DaveMcG wrote:

What do you mean by "the difference between the full poll and the valid poll"?



Well just because somebody stayed at home doesn't mean they were apathetic. If you spoil your vote it doesn't make a difference to who gets elected; same with staying at home. If you don't feel drawn to any of the candidates, and don't want to vote for the lesser of the evils, then staying at home is just as valid as spoiling your vote.

The total poll = all votes cast

Total valid poll = all votes cast less the spoiled votes

Raiser

DaveMcG wrote:

There is an extremely excessive magnitude of elongated and perplexing linguistic characters in your contribution! :eek:

Don't fcuk with me ballix or I'll hide your w@nky passport and then you can stick your ticker up your ar$e sideways.

- See I can communicate in many ways

* Mods Am joking by the way...............!!!

seamus

DaveMcG wrote:

What do you mean by "the difference between the full poll and the valid poll"?

The full poll is the number of ballots posted. The valid poll is the full poll minus the spoiled votes.

I'd disagree on principle, crash. Nobody cares about the spoiled votes. They're not counted as votes of dissatisfaction, they're counted as votes that weren't filled out correctly.

Choosing to spoil or stay at home is a personal choice. If it makes you feel more personally contented to go and make the effort, then great. If it doesn't, no biggie. If someone admitted to me that they didn't vote because they didn't have a preference for any candidate (as opposed to "couldn't be arsed"), then I'd have just as much respect for them as someone who'd spoiled.

tba

I can see Godwins law rearing its head in this thread very soon.

Raiser

Is a spoiled vote actually registered as a gesture of disatisfaction in any meaningful sense?

Even if it was, does anyone even give a flying fcuk?

- I reckon as a gesture of disatisfaction, a spoilt vote is comparable to slamming the kitchen door and sulking in your bedroom - just 'cause its "SO unfair".

Pherekydes

tba wrote:

I can see Godwins law rearing its head in this thread very soon.

If you don't vote, or if you spoil your vote, the Nazis get in.








Howzat?

tba

Slow coach wrote:

If you don't vote, or if you spoil your vote, the PD's get in.

I agree

The_Minister

tba wrote:

I agree

Please explain how the PDs=Nazis?

Crash

See, people seem to be misjudging what a spoiled vote is. its a democratic sign of dissatisfaction with all candidates. if its not being counted as that, then thats a serious problem.

However all these suggestions that the poster finds someone they dislike most and vote for the opposition are ridiculuous, from his post he seemed to be at a general point of dissatisfaction with all. in which case the proper way to register this is a spoiled vote.

If its ignored, then thats a problem with the system - doesnt make the register of your unhappiness any less important.

There really should be a RON option in voting.

tba

The_Minister wrote:

Please explain how the PDs=Nazis?

Step back a bit from this just for a second and look for the joke instead of the argument.

Dave!

&#231 wrote: »

See, people seem to be misjudging what a spoiled vote is. its a democratic sign of dissatisfaction with all candidates. if its not being counted as that, then thats a serious problem.

However all these suggestions that the poster finds someone they dislike most and vote for the opposition are ridiculuous, from his post he seemed to be at a general point of dissatisfaction with all. in which case the proper way to register this is a spoiled vote.

If its ignored, then thats a problem with the system - doesnt make the register of your unhappiness any less important.

There really should be a RON option in voting.

A spoiled vote is one that is invalid because it doesn't comply with the rules regarding filling out the ballot paper! It's not a sign of dissatisfaction, it's a sign that there was something wrong with your vote, and it could not be counted. What exactly is wrong with it, nobody outside the polling centre knows -- that's the fact of the matter at the moment!

If there were a "none of the above" option, then THAT would be a sign of dissatisfaction.

Unfortunately there is never going to be a candidate that has the EXACT same views as myself, so obviously if I want to affect the outcome of the election, I have to find one that matches my views close enough and vote for them. Democracy isn't perfect!

Crash

Part of democracy is the idea of a "ReOpen nominations" or "none of the above" vote or the ability to register dissatisfaction - closest thing we have is a spoiled vote, and it should be used as such if thats the case.

lostexpectation

jhegarty wrote:

Spoil it , proves your not just lazy..

its not apathy its antipathy

doonothing

i'd say leaving your voting slip blank would be the best way to get your message across. it portrays your dissatisfaction and will surely avoid it being marked down to error?

what's the usual percentage of spoilt votes? if anyone has the figure remotely handy..

Sean7

The_Minister wrote:

Please explain how the PDs=Nazis?

Nazis= assholes
PDs= assholes
ergo...

John R

seamus wrote:

The full poll is the number of ballots posted. The valid poll is the full poll minus the spoiled votes.

I'd disagree on principle, crash. Nobody cares about the spoiled votes. They're not counted as votes of dissatisfaction, they're counted as votes that weren't filled out correctly.

Maybe that is the case as there are just a handful in each constituency however if most of the 30-40% who didn't bother to turn up had all spoiled votes in ways that were obviously intentional then it would be a different matter.

seamus wrote:

Choosing to spoil or stay at home is a personal choice. If it makes you feel more personally contented to go and make the effort, then great. If it doesn't, no biggie. If someone admitted to me that they didn't vote because they didn't have a preference for any candidate (as opposed to "couldn't be arsed"), then I'd have just as much respect for them as someone who'd spoiled.

The "they are all the same" or "I don't like any of them" arguement is mostly just a cover for the couldn't be arsed brigade. I have known plenty of these people and none of them had any real idea what the candidates stood for or even what their names were. Anyone that can't be bothered to take 10 minutes every five years to at a minimum write "fúck yis all" on a ballot paper gets no respect from me.

AidoCQS

There is NO EXCUSE for this attitude

1) There has never been more diversity at the polls, sure the main parties have moved to the center, but there is far more diverse views covered by SF, Greens & Indo's.
2) We are in the information age, posters on this site alone have wrote reams of stuff on individual parties and candidates.

Call it what it is - you dont want to engage, you want to let the big people make the big decisions for you, pick the government that is going to be taxing you in years to come, thats fine, its a free country, but dont whinge or complaine if things are not going your way.

For evil to succeed, it only requires good people to do nothing, translated to this context, for the right to get elected, it only requires the left to vote for Mr. Tayto

By the way, there is a Maaarrketing yob, probably from d4 or somewhere, patting themselves on the back this morning at what a successful advertising campaign they have done with the Tayto Vote thing. You are directly their muppet when you vote for Mr. Tayto.

Heinrich

Vote spoiling is akin to writing on toilet walls. Nobody gives a damn and the clowns who do it get no recognition for their art.

Do you honestly thing that the tallypeople would put all those proposed "F*ck the candidate" ballot paper to one side and count them so that the results of this gross stupidity could be made known?

There is no way that the ballor paper can be traced to and individual so the exercise is moronic. Some pretty foolish vote spoilers out there!

RainyDay

&#231 wrote: »

Part of democracy is the idea of a "ReOpen nominations" or "none of the above" vote or the ability to register dissatisfaction - closest thing we have is a spoiled vote, and it should be used as such if thats the case.

So how should the "ReOpen nominations" or "none of the above" options work? How many times should we rerun the election before we get a result? Who governs the country in the meantime?

Ste.phen

On another forum somebody suggested that if none of the candidates line up with your views, it's your duty to put yourself forward as a candidate.
I think he was half-trolling but it's an interesting point. And it's not like it's especially difficult to put yourself forward for election

McSpud

Spoiling a vote is just pathetic. How the hell is anyone supposed to know you are protesting let alone what you protesting about? When I see spoilt votes I just see people who cannot count. :rolleyes:

Its often the duche or the turd sandwich but thats the way it is. Better to pick the turd than not have choice.

Crash

Well one of the options people noted on the other thread was that of just having it as a record.

Other option is having "Re open nominations" run as a candidate in a race.

so you can vote 1. Bertie Ahern 2. Enda Kenny 3. Reopen nominations

or anywhere in the order.

should reopen nominations at any point reach over the quota, all seats not filled would be re-run for election.

It would rarely EVER actually reach quota, however it would be a valid poll of dissatisfied voters.

Now I don't pretend this is a fully thought out solution - however it half 12 at night and i'm bored on the net. I'd be interested to see if anyone could come up with some sort of viable alternative it'd be interesting.

ferdi

I've always had an interest in the concept, not of spoiling my vote, but rather of soiling my vote....the possiblities are intriguing...